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Sticks and Coal - 12/9/2012 10:34:31 PM   
FelineFae


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Status: offline 		As a child, i was warned that if i was naughty, Santa would leave a stick in my stocking with which my adult guardians should employ to discipline my faulty behavior. But it seems no one else i've met is aware of this tradition. They correct me that if you're not nice, Santa leaves coal in your stocking.

Does anyone else notice the loss of their holiday traditions as we age ?

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RE: Sticks and Coal - 12/9/2012 10:56:22 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		I grew up on military bases. One of the things we kids used to do was pick out at least one toy to give to the needier kids. In my family, as well as a few others, it had to be our best toy that was in good condition. This didnt mean the most expensive, or the most cherished... but it couldnt be the ones we hid in the back of the closet either.

I dont hear about this anymore. Shame.

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RE: Sticks and Coal - 12/9/2012 11:26:04 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineFae
As a child, i was warned that if i was naughty, Santa would leave a stick in my stocking with which my adult guardians should employ to discipline my faulty behavior. But it seems no one else i've met is aware of this tradition. They correct me that if you're not nice, Santa leaves coal in your stocking.

Does anyone else notice the loss of their holiday traditions as we age ?

Thank you so much for that information! This stick clearly is the same one employed by the Dutch "Zwarte Piet".

What is your ancestry? (That I may have a better idea about the way throughout history of this tradition.)


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RE: Sticks and Coal - 12/9/2012 11:53:03 PM   
littlewonder


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Status: offline 		I've never heard the stick one either. When I was growing up and other kids would say that if they were bad they would get coal, I would be thinking in the back of my mind...."I'll happily take coal. I can throw it in the coal furnace to keep warm!". I grew up where that was the only heat we had and dad could not always afford the coal to heat it every winter.



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RE: Sticks and Coal - 12/10/2012 12:51:21 AM   
LadyPact


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I'm afraid I haven't heard of the stick, either. We heard the line about the coal growing up. Thinking about it though, I'm sure coal would have been a worse issue for the parents than the kids. Just imagine the mess we could have made with that.


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RE: Sticks and Coal - 12/10/2012 1:04:42 AM   
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Status: offline 		Growing up we were told we would get an onion in our stocking if we were not good.

One year, my older sister and I put oranges in each of our stockings and an onion in my little sisters stocking and told her that Santa had left us something early. My mother was less than pleased at the crying which ensued. Heh. Sisters are mean.

I DID get a piece of coal one year (so did my sisters,) mine was carved into the shape of a cat. I still have it.

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RE: Sticks and Coal - 12/10/2012 2:08:53 AM   
Rule


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quote:

These songs and stories also warned that a child who has been only slightly naughty will not get a present, but a "roe", which is a bundle of birch twigs, (as a warning they could have gotten a birching instead) or will simply receive a lump of coal instead of gifts.


So there is your stick: de roe(de). (the roe)

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RE: Sticks and Coal - 12/10/2012 4:50:06 AM   
FelineFae


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Status: offline 		Fascinating!

This is the first i've heard about onions, though i think that might have been a less welcome discovery in my stocking. Tough call, coal-dust or nasty tasting smelly bulb ...
i did get oranges in my stocking as a child, there was never any story to go with the fruit, i just thought my guardians were thrifty. Later on i thought it might be tied into renewal of the sun or the preservation of climate-sensitive items like pointsettias. It wasn't until recently i was aware of the coal.

my biological mother is of French descent and my father is of Scottish heritage, our bloodline is a sect of the Clan Southerland. Yet i was bounced about the branches of the old family tree as a youngling. my maternal grandfather remarried a woman of German ancestry, so maybe that is how we came by the legend of the switch. Since my stepgrandmother was from Lancaster, PA, i'm guessing the stick made it across the Atlantic, but maybe Zwarte Piet fell overboard sometime in the mid 1800's ?

e2a

Thank you, Rule. Your answer sounds like a most plausible explanation.

< Message edited by FelineFae -- 12/10/2012 4:56:10 AM >

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RE: Sticks and Coal - 12/10/2012 4:53:20 AM   
FelineFae


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

From wikipedia:

quote:

These songs and stories also warned that a child who has been only slightly naughty will not get a present, but a "roe", which is a bundle of birch twigs, (as a warning they could have gotten a birching instead) or will simply receive a lump of coal instead of gifts.


So there is your stick: de roe(de). (the roe)


There's certainly a theme of heat sources here. Perchance was Saint Nich' a Patron of Arsonists ?

e2a

Does anyone know the combustility of onions ?

< Message edited by FelineFae -- 12/10/2012 5:20:25 AM >

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RE: Sticks and Coal - 12/10/2012 5:34:50 AM   
Toysinbabeland


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Status: offline 		We got oranges tapped with cloves and walnuts...
We were told of coal, or worse yet, the empty stocking.
We also left our gloves on the front porch and they would be filled with bird seed...do that we'd share with them.

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RE: Sticks and Coal - 12/10/2012 5:44:57 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


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Status: offline 		Yes I've heard of this. I've always heard you'll get 'coal and switches' in your stocking if you are naughty.


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RE: Sticks and Coal - 12/10/2012 5:52:04 AM   
FelineFae


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Status: offline 		Pomanders are familar to me, but not in stockings. The birdseed is new to me, i like it. It reminds me of putting carrots on the porch for the reindeer. We never did this, but i've heard of it. Makes me wonder how the deer get the carrots if they're on the roof and the food is on the porch... maybe the smell is to lure the little deer? i don't know.

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RE: Sticks and Coal - 12/10/2012 5:53:50 AM   
FelineFae


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

Yes I've heard of this. I've always heard you'll get 'coal and switches' in your stocking if you are naughty.





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RE: Sticks and Coal - 12/10/2012 6:12:09 AM   
Aylee


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Status: offline 		We put carrots on the plate with the cookies for Santa, the reindeer must have gotten tme as they were chewed up the next morning.

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RE: Sticks and Coal - 12/10/2012 6:16:14 AM   
FelineFae


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Status: offline 		Your method seems nicer for the deer.

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RE: Sticks and Coal - 12/10/2012 6:34:17 AM   
Marc2b


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Status: offline 		The stick tradition is a new one on me but I can see it being used during an age when corporal punishment was the norm.

It does give me an idea, however, on what to slip into my gal pals stocking.

"Really? Santa put a leather riding crop in your stocking? That's funny. I got a pair of hand cuffs, a ball gag, and some nipple clamps."

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RE: Sticks and Coal - 12/10/2012 6:36:02 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

When I was growing up and other kids would say that if they were bad they would get coal, I would be thinking in the back of my mind...."I'll happily take coal. I can throw it in the coal furnace to keep warm!". I grew up where that was the only heat we had and dad could not always afford the coal to heat it every winter.


Coal was once the primary source of heat for just about everybody and I've wondered if the tradition about coal was not a way of "explaining" why the poor kids didn't gifts from Santa but still got something useful... even necessary.

Of course, there is a certain nastiness in that idea in that poor kids (who would already be challenged when it cam to their sense of self worth) would grow up "knowing" that they were bad because Santa always left coal in their stockings. A self fulfilling prophecy if there ever was one.



< Message edited by Marc2b -- 12/10/2012 6:43:26 AM >

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RE: Sticks and Coal - 12/10/2012 6:42:07 AM   
FelineFae


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Status: offline 		i think it's all becoming clear. Socks. Sticks. Coal. We're poor, it's cold. You got something, now shaddup.


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RE: Sticks and Coal - 12/10/2012 6:42:56 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

We got oranges tapped with cloves and walnuts...


Our stockings were stuffed with the usual candy and small toys (the kind that would end up broken and/or lost by day's end) but at the bottom there was always a big juicy orange. Even though there was always a bowl of oranges around on Christmas day, that orange was special because it came from Santa. I would save it for the brief quiet time between the opening of the presents and the arrival of my father's side of the family (ugh) for Christmas diner. I would find a secluded spot in the basement or in the woods outside and slowly enjoy it, and the peace, for all its worth.

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RE: Sticks and Coal - 12/10/2012 6:52:04 AM   
FelineFae


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Status: offline 		Do you remember being told that the orange came from Santa, or did you just assume since it came out of the stocking that it was St.Nick's work?
i ask because i know some carry the tradition that the stocking is the soul domain of Father Christmas, while others feel he has free reign throughout the house.
It's also curious to see a culture continue in rituals when their origans have been lost, then newer generations invent "reasons" why they're doing what they do.

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