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GddssBella -> Preferences... (6/14/2006 6:10:23 AM)
G'morning all: It's been quite some time since I've seen any worthwhile topics discussed here. I'm aware that everyone (myself included!) have lives that must be lived and don't always have time to formulate something new to debate. This being the case, instead of whining about that lack, I'll toss out a bone and see who worries it to pieces, lol. This is aimed primarily at fellow dommes but all are welcome to jump in and stir the pot... What do you prefer, submissive or slave? Why? Pro/cons? Definitions? I'll post my own take on this thread once it gets off the ground. Please, no flaming and let's keep this civil. Thanks. Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others... [:D] Bella

Oumae -> RE: Preferences... (6/14/2006 8:00:55 AM)
I don't have a preference. There are so many variations on the definitions and how people see them and I'm not sure people can be pigeon-holed. I tend to use the term sub or bottom and to use them loosely. What I go for is a strong, intelligent, witty, charming, mannerly, caring guy. With communication we can figure out if we have similar wants etc from a relationship, with meeting and exploration we can see if the chemistry and connection is there and all going well I'd just call them mine! Oumae

Lashra -> RE: Preferences... (6/14/2006 9:23:29 AM)
I prefer a sub to a slave and at the risk of being flamed, I will explain to you why. I have never owned a slave so I cannot speak from experience only what I have heard and read that happens in those types of relationships. In my opinion, a slave is a person who desires to have no rights, no opinions, and no say in anything that goes on in their life, they desire nothing more than to be owned and to serve. Slave want a higher authority to make ALL their decisions for them, they desire to be used and micromanaged. A slave must be clothed, fed, sheltered and protected by the Dominant because in my view a person who chooses slavery chooses to give up everything, including working outside of the home. A slave has zero control over his/her life once they consent to slavery. I know this is not true in all cases but in MY view that is what slavery should be and what separates it from the life of a submissive. Slaves have but one basic right that the Dominant should adhere to and that is the right to "obey or leave". This is why I feel slaves must be very particular in whom they choose as a Master/Mistress. The precollaring negotiations must be quite clear because once they accept that collar that is it. Perhaps I should not feel this way but to me having a slave is a lot like babysitting. I do not have the time to pick out someone's clothing for him or her on a daily basis. I do not have the time to do all their thinking for them. I have a business to run, a child to raise and my own life to keep in order. I do not want to tell them who they can have as friends, or if they can make a phone call or if they can get on the computer or not, or how they should wear their hair. Perhaps my concept is off but this is how I have envisioned the M/s relationship and I frankly do not see it appealing to me. Submissives have a say in their day-to-day life, they handle their own finances and many of their own decisions. They are pretty much self sufficient in most areas but some areas are turned over to the Dominant to control. I have a sub, he makes most of his own decisions, and he sometimes asks for my input. He can say yes or no, to whatever I suggest but he is better off saying yes . In the bedroom, I make the decisions and call all the shots, when it comes to finances I make the decisions because frankly he is terrible with money. Sometimes I advise him on what to wear to certain functions, as he is not used to going to formal parties. In my opinion having a submissive is a lot less stressful for me then having, a slave would be. As I said, I have never owned a slave so I am not speaking from experience just from what I have read and heard others say about their M/s relationships. What works for one couple will not work for another so to each their own. ~Lashra

MistressLorelei -> RE: Preferences... (6/14/2006 9:42:18 AM)
I see any topic which generates discussion to be worthwhile.... but that's just Me. Submissive and slave? I have learned from communicating with various males seeking D/s or M/s relationships, that the definition of "slave" varies from person to person. Some who define themselves as being a 'slave' are exactly what I seek, while others who also call themselves 'slaves' are nothing I would even consider. I generally use the 'submissive' term to indicate what I am seeking. Many who define themselves as a 'slave' feel that they are property, who have no value as human beings. They should be used without any consideration, they are not to be married to a Domme, and very little, if any vanilla connection exists. That is not what I seek. Others who define themselves as a slave do so to simply indicate that they could give themselves fully and long-term to the right female, and while they may become property, they don't perceive themselves without value. They would share in communication and be heard in the relationship, even though the female would have the final say. This definition of 'slave' would be acceptable to Me. I want to own someone I am proud of as a human being.... not own someone who considers himself worthless.

crouchingtigress -> RE: Preferences... (6/14/2006 9:59:47 AM)
Besides it being a subjective definition there is something more for me... To me the sexiest part of being a slave is that it is a progression of trust. When the person desires to be more and more prostrate to your wishes and to to help you more selflessly in your life...I think it is very beautiful when that happens organically and naturally. I think that it means more when some one voluntarily gives up layers of their security blanket and ego to you and desires to give you his everything. Just getting a slave out of the box does not mean as much to me....

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Preferences... (6/14/2006 2:07:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei Others who define themselves as a slave do so to simply indicate that they could give themselves fully and long-term to the right female, and while they may become property, they don't perceive themselves without value. They would share in communication and be heard in the relationship, even though the female would have the final say. This definition of 'slave' would be acceptable to Me. I want to own someone I am proud of as a human being.... not own someone who considers himself worthless. Same here...and this (Lorelei's above) is how I view slave. Yes, they are property, but I do not intend to, nor should I need to, micro-manage. Until someone is owned, I would expect them to identify as a sumbissive or bottom. That isn't the case however. As a result, I hear from many who identify as slave, and I would not even view them as remotely submissive, and I see others who identify as a submissive, and they have the qualities that will make them successful in the M/s relationship. So I make it as clear as I can, in My profile, what I seek, and that this is what I would view as a slave. Note to crouchingtigress: I have been meaning to mention that I love your new photo!

MaitresseAzure -> RE: Preferences... (6/14/2006 2:19:47 PM)
I also fall into the category of never having owned a slave. And I have enjoyed reading the responses, some of them have given me a much clearer picture of what I need. The idea that someone would give himself to me completely and without hesitation is so intriguing. But I have enough people to take care of in my life; a slave who would need micromanaging would not fit very well with what I need.

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Preferences... (6/14/2006 10:21:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GddssBella What do you prefer, submissive or slave? Why? Pro/cons? Definitions? I'll post my own take on this thread once it gets off the ground. Please, no flaming and let's keep this civil. Thanks. Bella I would prefer a slave because although I am very much of the laissez faire ilk on most things, I am particular about some things: like the way my man dresses, and what he smells like after bathing, which I think tecnically makes me a micromanager. I would do well also with a compatible submissive, but would rather one who is less likely to resent me for overruling even the small decisions sometimes... I know there is nothing here to indicate a slave would be less resentful of such an approach, but if his dictionary and mine read similarly, we would agree that being my slave renders him subject to my authority on everything. M

crouchingtigress -> RE: Preferences... (6/14/2006 11:12:58 PM)
thank you for saying ...[:)]... you made my day.... quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold quote: ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei Others who define themselves as a slave do so to simply indicate that they could give themselves fully and long-term to the right female, and while they may become property, they don't perceive themselves without value. They would share in communication and be heard in the relationship, even though the female would have the final say. This definition of 'slave' would be acceptable to Me. I want to own someone I am proud of as a human being.... not own someone who considers himself worthless. Same here...and this (Lorelei's above) is how I view slave. Yes, they are property, but I do not intend to, nor should I need to, micro-manage. Until someone is owned, I would expect them to identify as a sumbissive or bottom. That isn't the case however. As a result, I hear from many who identify as slave, and I would not even view them as remotely submissive, and I see others who identify as a submissive, and they have the qualities that will make them successful in the M/s relationship. So I make it as clear as I can, in My profile, what I seek, and that this is what I would view as a slave. Note to crouchingtigress: I have been meaning to mention that I love your new photo!

strob -> RE: Preferences... (6/15/2006 1:54:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lashra I prefer a sub to a slave and at the risk of being flamed, I will explain to you why. I have never owned a slave so I cannot speak from experience only what I have heard and read that happens in those types of relationships. In my opinion, a slave is a person who desires to have no rights, no opinions, and no say in anything that goes on in their life, they desire nothing more than to be owned and to serve. Slave want a higher authority to make ALL their decisions for them, they desire to be used and micromanaged. A slave must be clothed, fed, sheltered and protected by the Dominant because in my view a person who chooses slavery chooses to give up everything, including working outside of the home. A slave has zero control over his/her life once they consent to slavery. I know this is not true in all cases but in MY view that is what slavery should be and what separates it from the life of a submissive. Slaves have but one basic right that the Dominant should adhere to and that is the right to "obey or leave". This is why I feel slaves must be very particular in whom they choose as a Master/Mistress. The precollaring negotiations must be quite clear because once they accept that collar that is it. Perhaps I should not feel this way but to me having a slave is a lot like babysitting. I do not have the time to pick out someone's clothing for him or her on a daily basis. I do not have the time to do all their thinking for them. I have a business to run, a child to raise and my own life to keep in order. I do not want to tell them who they can have as friends, or if they can make a phone call or if they can get on the computer or not, or how they should wear their hair. Perhaps my concept is off but this is how I have envisioned the M/s relationship and I frankly do not see it appealing to me. Submissives have a say in their day-to-day life, they handle their own finances and many of their own decisions. They are pretty much self sufficient in most areas but some areas are turned over to the Dominant to control. I have a sub, he makes most of his own decisions, and he sometimes asks for my input. He can say yes or no, to whatever I suggest but he is better off saying yes . In the bedroom, I make the decisions and call all the shots, when it comes to finances I make the decisions because frankly he is terrible with money. Sometimes I advise him on what to wear to certain functions, as he is not used to going to formal parties. In my opinion having a submissive is a lot less stressful for me then having, a slave would be. As I said, I have never owned a slave so I am not speaking from experience just from what I have read and heard others say about their M/s relationships. What works for one couple will not work for another so to each their own. ~Lashra Now that I read your post, I think I know what do I want to be in a relationship with a potential domme partner...until now, I really wasn't sure if I wanted to be just a submissive or a real slave.

DiannaVesta -> RE: Preferences... (6/15/2006 5:13:53 AM)
Slave, definitely. What works for me is the total dynamic that is happening all the time. Even when it’s subtle I sense it, feel it and my life is just different. I am the happiest when I have slaves in my life. Not just because I have someone to take out the trash but the energy around me. I enjoy being catered to, adored and worshiped REALLY. It’s a type of affection I crave. IMO only a slave, one who committed to you mind, body and soul. If I just wanted to dabble or play there are plenty of submissives I can pluck up and toy with. A slave is a whole other level & connection for me. They are truly and absolutely devoted to my happiness & pleasure.

blackpearl81 -> RE: Preferences... (6/16/2006 9:50:18 PM)
Hmm... My personal thoughts are these: A slave has things demanded of them; A submissive, offers.. he or she has the desire to please, and whatever he/she may do, is done willingly.. w/o the "demand" being there.. so to speak Be well Bp

GddssBella -> RE: Preferences... (6/19/2006 7:07:59 AM)
G'morning all: waves to bp81 Thanks to those that have posted. My views are this: A slave has no rights, except what is granted by their owner. That's altogether too much responsibility. My life is too busy to handle that much micro-managing. The mentality it involves doesn't leave that individual much room for themselves as a person either. For me a submissive is highly desirable, which I have. He's got backbone, sass, and an independent streak which frees me up from worrying about him all the time. He's capable of fending for himself. My boy is quite solicitous of me and puts my comforts first in almost all things. If all goes well and we're still together much further down the line, the situation will be total when we move in together. His greatest pleasure is to be useful to me and make my life easier. He exemplifies what I believe is best in a submissive. Not to mention, he's cuddlier than a teddy bear. [;)] Lashra came closest in the viewpoint I hold. She just expressed it better/differently. Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others... [:D] Bella

agirl -> RE: Preferences... (6/19/2006 7:33:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GddssBella G'morning all: waves to bp81 Thanks to those that have posted. My views are this: A slave has no rights, except what is granted by their owner. That's altogether too much responsibility. My life is too busy to handle that much micro-managing. The mentality it involves doesn't leave that individual much room for themselves as a person either. quote: I would agree that it's a fair responsibility to own a slave but it doesn't necessarily mean micromanagement. Being owned doesn't seem to have rendered me unable to make a decison, or choose things for myself. I have no rights but the level of control, interference or interest is up to him. He will make his wishes clear if he has a preference or an issue with how I live or behave but that doesn't mean he wants to be steeped in the minutae of everyday mundane activities. I'm sure he'd be bored rigid if that was the case. I am given ample room to be myself.......I'm pretty sure that's what he desired in the first instance. Basically he has the final word on everything, which doesn't mean he needs to be controlling every teeny aspect on a continual basis. Regards, agirl

RavenMuse -> RE: Preferences... (6/19/2006 8:12:13 AM)
Many seem to be missing something fundamental to owning a slave.... Simply because I CAN step in and micromanage doesn't mean I HAVE to! There is much in helens life she is getting right and makes me happy. If it ain't broken, don't fix it! Where I see something I am not comfortable with I ask her for an explination of why that aspect of her life is like that.... sometimes the explination makes sense and it is the best thing in the circumstance, other times I can see a better way, either some change that will make things better in her life or simply that will make ME more comfortable, those things I change. Same with things like clothing. I could pick out every article of clothing she will wear each day.... I don't need to, she doesn't need me too, so I don't.... unless I'm doing something in particular and I WANT to! Control doesn't mean an obligation to act, but rather the choise of when you want or need to step in and take the reins! quote: ORIGINAL: blackpearl81 A slave has things demanded of them; A submissive, offers.. he or she has the desire to please, and whatever he/she may do, is done willingly.. w/o the "demand" being there.. so to speak helen is a slave, more importantly she is MY slave, she desires to please me, doing so makes her happy. I did not demand her submission, she gave herself to me, willingly. She continues to make me happy willingly. I rarely have to demand, once she understands something will please me she willingly does it.... even if it is something she finds difficult! She trusts I will not step past her very few hard limits and trusts that I would not willingly let her come to harm (Physicaly or emotionaly) all else is upto ME wether I let her continue as she would normaly OR wether I take direct control, the choise is mine. I own a person, not a slab of meat. She is quite capable of making choises on her own when I decide to not make those choises for her or am not there and one needs to be made.... at such times she keeps in mind who I am, things we have discussed and trys her best to make choises I will be happy with and even, sometimes, proud of her for making. Just to give you a diffrent perspective.

IronBear -> RE: Preferences... (6/19/2006 9:18:33 AM)
Slave definately, kajira specifically and nothing less or different will do. I want to and will own her heart, body and soul as is my right.

DiannaVesta -> RE: Preferences... (6/19/2006 9:30:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blackpearl81 Hmm... My personal thoughts are these: A slave has things demanded of them; A submissive, offers.. he or she has the desire to please, and whatever he/she may do, is done willingly.. w/o the "demand" being there.. so to speak Be well Bp No sorry I don't agree with this at all. A slaves desire is to please. Demand should never be an issue. Complete devotion is expected never demanded.

DiannaVesta -> RE: Preferences... (6/19/2006 9:31:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse Many seem to be missing something fundamental to owning a slave.... Simply because I CAN step in and micromanage doesn't mean I HAVE to! There is much in helens life she is getting right and makes me happy. If it ain't broken, don't fix it! Where I see something I am not comfortable with I ask her for an explination of why that aspect of her life is like that.... sometimes the explination makes sense and it is the best thing in the circumstance, other times I can see a better way, either some change that will make things better in her life or simply that will make ME more comfortable, those things I change. Same with things like clothing. I could pick out every article of clothing she will wear each day.... I don't need to, she doesn't need me too, so I don't.... unless I'm doing something in particular and I WANT to! Control doesn't mean an obligation to act, but rather the choise of when you want or need to step in and take the reins! quote: ORIGINAL: blackpearl81 A slave has things demanded of them; A submissive, offers.. he or she has the desire to please, and whatever he/she may do, is done willingly.. w/o the "demand" being there.. so to speak helen is a slave, more importantly she is MY slave, she desires to please me, doing so makes her happy. I did not demand her submission, she gave herself to me, willingly. She continues to make me happy willingly. I rarely have to demand, once she understands something will please me she willingly does it.... even if it is something she finds difficult! She trusts I will not step past her very few hard limits and trusts that I would not willingly let her come to harm (Physicaly or emotionaly) all else is upto ME wether I let her continue as she would normaly OR wether I take direct control, the choise is mine. I own a person, not a slab of meat. She is quite capable of making choises on her own when I decide to not make those choises for her or am not there and one needs to be made.... at such times she keeps in mind who I am, things we have discussed and trys her best to make choises I will be happy with and even, sometimes, proud of her for making. Just to give you a diffrent perspective. You hit the nail on the head. Exactly.

DiannaVesta -> RE: Preferences... (6/19/2006 9:35:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear Slave definately, kajira specifically and nothing less or different will do. I want to and will own her heart, body and soul as is my right. Hey Ironbear how nice to see you. I was thinking about you and hope that you will drop me a line. Now as for the post.... can you please explain what you mean by "is my right" ? I'm curious. That's how I feel and would like to learn more about how the men feel.

IronBear -> RE: Preferences... (6/19/2006 9:57:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear Slave definately, kajira specifically and nothing less or different will do. I want to and will own her heart, body and soul as is my right. Hey Ironbear how nice to see you. I was thinking about you and hope that you will drop me a line. Now as for the post.... can you please explain what you mean by "is my right" ? I'm curious. That's how I feel and would like to learn more about how the men feel. Greetings Dianna, good to see you too, The right I refer to extends only within the Gorean lifestyle Community and is tempered with the common sence attitude that we still have to abide by the laws of the land. However within those constricts, as a Gorean Master (if I bother to collar another girl, when and if one becomes available near me), It is my right to own my property completely. It is also my right to deal with her as I see fit and it is also certainly my right to know here inside out... After all how else can I Master her completely and help her develop and grow to be the best she can be. That too is my right..

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