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headdrama -> Think for yourself (9/30/2012 10:08:08 PM)

Do not believe me think for yourself do your own research.


I have read many of the posts here with some interest and found there are glaring examples of truth and propaganda. While I will not attempt to correct or compliment the various posts, I wanted to state the truth, based on the best sources. While some will think these Republican talking points they would be wrong since I am a Libertarian by party an Objectivist by philosophy and supporter of the regime of the Individual. I tend to look at this issues not from the point of a political party but at what does and does not effect the freedom of the individual and what does and does not work in the real market place, that market place called the laws of supply and demand that ,yes, even existed within the iron curtain, because supply and demand are about human aspirations not simply economics.

Supply and demand are results of activity and activity is simply the free choice that exist at any given time in greater or smaller quantities. Things like Capitalism, free markets, free choice are only extensions of the freedom of the individual. Any group or government, person or party that attempts to limit your free choices to live buy and trade as you would wish are forms of tyranny. Lately there has been an upsurge of countries gravitating toward more statism, but without the success that the free market brings. Statism in all its forms socialism,communism, fascism, protective mercantilism has no historical record of ever supplying the free market with consumer demands or meeting human expectations. In the same way there has never been a tax that once levied returned to the collectors of the tax the same amount or more in any given year once it was raised. There is historical evidence for this. Again this is about what works and what does not.

The truth.
1. Obama inherited a bad economy, but its not the worst in history. The deep depression inherited by Harding and Coolidge or even by Reagan was deeper and in both cases free market policies turned things around in two years. The Great Depression which was only great in a few places like the USA was made deeper by the wrong policies.

2. Unemployment is not going down. The new norm is 8.2 and will in all likely hood rise even higher. Many companies large and small are preparing to shift assets, jobs, innovation, and investments offshore to survive the fiscal cliff ,as well as new regulations and taxes including Obama care.

3.The dollar has lost 40 % of its value and is still plunging.

4.The national debt is rising and the nations ratings are in danger of being downgraded once again, the US has lost its triple A bond rating.

5. Since the New Deal over 14 trillion of US wealth has been transferred over seas. Between the winning of the nomination by Obama in 2008 and now, another 2 trillion has vanished. In 2008 it is estimated that there was 3.2 million , millionairess and billionaires in the United States. It is now estimated that nearly 800,000 of those fortunes have vanished either into bankruptcy or into cash flows out of the country into offshore banks.

There is more but this post is becoming longer than I had planned. Those interested can look up what I have said. The facts are out there by credible sources, left and right to prove it. My posting all of them here wont matter if you are are delusional or too lazy to do your research.

With technology today you do not have to be wealthy to transfer your own money in a few key strokes, and millions of dollars are moved in such a way every day. There are banks in the Cayman's and Singapore as well as many other stable jurisdictions that will accept your money and convert your dollars into another currency or a basket of currencies. The average amount that most will accept is about 5,000 dollars and proof that you make a yearly income in the range of 40,000 to 50,000 dollars. In some places you might have to take a vacation or show up in person to open the account.

I personally do not care who the majority or the electoral college elects. This post is not for that. I do think people should realize what can happen,and will happen if the same policies are continued by either Obama or Romney. You should also know what your options are. Think for yourself and think ahead. Be like Clarke Gables character in Gone with the Wind. He did not trust the victorious Yankees or the failed Confederate currency. He got his gold out of the country and into safer offshore locations. He took care of himself and did not let what he had accumulated become Gone with the Wind. Good luck!



mussorgsky -> RE: Think for yourself (9/30/2012 10:40:33 PM)

As a fellow Libertarian and rationalist (more Kant than Rand here), I completely agree with those points. However, your third point needs to have an attached date. If you go back far enough, such as to the 1920s, the dollar has actually lost more than 90% of its value. Granted, that isn't something that can be blamed on Obama (only partially) and, yes, BOTH PARTIES WERE AND ARE AT FAULT! The two party system is destroying this country more than anything else. If the elected bunch of genetic rejects actually took their oath of office seriously and believed in the Constitution we wouldn't be in this mess. Really, folks, go back and read the Ninth and Tenth Amendments to the US Constitution. Then wonder how HHS, DHS, DEA, IRS, ATF, DOL, DoEnergy, DoEducation, FDA, FAA, and virtually every other acronym on the federal level exists since all but a few (such as the Post Office and DOD) are not part of the federal government's delineated powers.

Now, let's sit back and watch for the following knee-jerk responses:
1. You said something bad about Obama so you must be racist
2. Romney is soooo much better than Obama because, um, because the Republican party says so? Yeah, that's it, ignore all the evidence and the fact that he's flipped more than John Kerry in a IHoP
3. But Bush wasn't any better so that makes Obama's actions alright

Responses you likely won't hear:
1. All of Obama's failed promises. Examples: Gitmo, the 'stan (another 12 years promised there by Obama to Karzai), extending Bush's anti-freedom policies (PATRIOT Act, NDAA, etc.)
2. Why the hell we're still in Afghanistan, i.e. what's the damn mission and could we ever win when we can't even define what winning is
3. That we on the grass-roots and local levels are changing this country's politics more than any poles, pundits, talking heads, politician or party.

As the late great Barry Goldwater famously said, "I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue"



headdrama -> RE: Think for yourself (9/30/2012 10:49:17 PM)

Thanks for the correction mussorgsky and you are right the post was simply getting too long. The dollar has been declining for a long time what I should have said is that it had declined 40% buying power since 2009, this is not to ignore the declines of the past but there are declines relative to the value in each generation. I am not a fan of Romney either and no I'm not a racist or a hater of Mormons with Cayman bank accounts lol. There are just better answers to what we are doing and most of those can be found as you pointed out in the Constitution. The path we are on is not sustainable and in due time all those wanting the 'gets" will run out. Socialism is a great system until you run out of other peoples money.



tazzygirl -> RE: Think for yourself (9/30/2012 11:10:46 PM)

quote:

1. You said something bad about Obama so you must be racist


Are you? Is the OP? I havent seen any evidence of that.

quote:

2. Romney is soooo much better than Obama because, um, because the Republican party says so? Yeah, that's it, ignore all the evidence and the fact that he's flipped more than John Kerry in a IHoP


Cant argue here.

quote:

3. But Bush wasn't any better so that makes Obama's actions alright


There is much Obama has done that I have not agreed with... all on his own. Had nothing to do with Bush.

quote:

1. All of Obama's failed promises. Examples: Gitmo, the 'stan (another 12 years promised there by Obama to Karzai), extending Bush's anti-freedom policies (PATRIOT Act, NDAA, etc.)


I am still pissed about all the compromise over the ACA.

quote:

2. Why the hell we're still in Afghanistan, i.e. what's the damn mission and could we ever win when we can't even define what winning is


Good damn question.

quote:

3. That we on the grass-roots and local levels are changing this country's politics more than any poles, pundits, talking heads, politician or party.


I agree with that, to a point. The Tea Party started out, supposedly, as a grass roots effort.. and look at that mess. The Coffee Party had promise, and had gone by the way side. None of this will change until we get the money out of politics.

Surprised?



tazzygirl -> RE: Think for yourself (9/30/2012 11:17:21 PM)

quote:

The dollar has been declining for a long time what I should have said is that it had declined 40% buying power since 2009, this is not to ignore the declines of the past but there are declines relative to the value in each generation.


The US Inflation Calculator measures the buying power of the dollar over time. To begin, just enter any two dates between 1913 and 2012, an amount, and then click 'Calculate'.

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

20 dollars in 2009 would cost 21.48 now according to this calculator, reflecting a 7.4% change... not 40%

To find a 40% I had to go back to 1998.

Are we not talking about the same thing?



headdrama -> RE: Think for yourself (9/30/2012 11:24:30 PM)

We are talking about the buying power of the dollar historically as well as its inflationary decent since 2009 one is a longer view and the other is simply relative to the previous buying power before the latest printing of more fiat currency. it not like your loosing in this case 90% and then 40% . once its lost 100% its just paper. What I am referring to is its loss of buying power in relation to recent history. Its about the inflation. its one of those funny things like lower taxation that brings in greater revenues that doesn't seem to make sense, but it does work out.



tazzygirl -> RE: Think for yourself (9/30/2012 11:25:24 PM)

Yet that is what I showed you.



headdrama -> RE: Think for yourself (9/30/2012 11:27:03 PM)

Its like in Zimbabwe they still have currency and you can get a big mac if you could find one for like a trillion whatevers. With any commodity 100% of what ever it is is 100% but the same math doesnt work out here because the Fed has an endless supply of ink and printers to keep making more so the loss in value is always minus whatever the money supply had been.



mussorgsky -> RE: Think for yourself (10/1/2012 12:47:27 AM)

tazzygirl-
Real devaluation is not what the government's inflation numbers are. The government uses the CPI, the Consumer Price Index. It's a fancy way for the to screw with the numbers. For example, food and energy are not included. So if milk goes from $3/gallon to $5 in a certain period of time, they don't count it because it counts as food. If petrol prices shoot up through the roof and gasoline costs $10/gallon next month, this is also not included since it falls under energy. Now think of the average American. Can they simply stop paying for food and energy (heating, electricity, and transportation)? There are plenty of great websites out there. Shadow Stats (http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts) is one good one for those who like charts and/or don't mind a bit of reading.



SternSkipper -> RE: Think for yourself (10/1/2012 9:49:49 AM)

Hey... Which one of you socks is the one that owes us a story about canadian cakey?
There apart from the fact that 500 tons is more cake than probably exists in the us, who late you claiming brought it there?



vincentML -> RE: Think for yourself (10/1/2012 10:05:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: headdrama

Its like in Zimbabwe they still have currency and you can get a big mac if you could find one for like a trillion whatevers. With any commodity 100% of what ever it is is 100% but the same math doesnt work out here because the Fed has an endless supply of ink and printers to keep making more so the loss in value is always minus whatever the money supply had been.

Well then we can always go back on the gold standard. That will protect us against inflation. Never did shit to prevent bank collapse and depression/recession however. Oh wait, wasn't the Weimar Republic on the gold standard?[8|]



Yachtie -> RE: Think for yourself (10/1/2012 10:29:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
Well then we can always go back on the gold standard. That will protect us against inflation. Never did shit to prevent bank collapse and depression/recession however. Oh wait, wasn't the Weimar Republic on the gold standard?[8|]



The gold standard isn't perfect, but looking at the USD chart it does make one wonder just how well a straight paper currency has done since 1972.



mnottertail -> RE: Think for yourself (10/1/2012 10:52:15 AM)

The gold standard wouldn't do shit.   Look at what happened in 72, the Brits bought up a shitload at our $32 standard, when it was selling at $60+ at the time.

We are already fucked in that we would be the only nation on it, and our economy would be even more fucked up based upon what gold was priced at that day, you wouldn't be able to sort day from night, which we barely can do now, economically.



vincentML -> RE: Think for yourself (10/1/2012 11:11:05 AM)

The gold standard is great for lenders, I am told, but not for borrowers who cannot repay their loans in devalued dollars.

Am I wrong in thinking that one cannot become alramed at the fall in the dollar's purchasing price alone but must consider how many dollars are available in the consumer's account. I mean if the $ is worth only fitty cents but i now have twice as many $$ doesn't that kinda level the playing field?

Trying to channel WJ Bryant here.



mnottertail -> RE: Think for yourself (10/1/2012 11:27:12 AM)

China holds their currency artificially low.   Our devalued dollars makes investment in America an attractive deal, it also would make our goods seem attractively priced, were we producing goods in this country.

The global conflict is economic warfare and has been for sometime, and we trade on our good name, the Kenyesians could make a go at it, if we put our goddamn wealth where our mouth actually was, and the Smiths could make it, if they would understand Smith instead of quoting out of context the 'invisible hand', and the Malthusians are as fucking undoable as putting your own cock in your own ass for most.   And that bullshit whoever his name is, from Austria, starts with an S I believe, that is pure unadulterated asswipe.

We need an actual blue print, an actual economic policy, industrial policy, infrastructure policy, and competitive global policy, all of which are (even compromised) interwoven, and long term and goal oriented in this country, cuz in the war of the pocketbook, our ass is being handed to us, and our only solution is coming down to war and destruction, if we don't get our act together.    



Fellow -> RE: Think for yourself (10/1/2012 1:43:25 PM)

quote:

We need an actual blue print, an actual economic policy, industrial policy, infrastructure policy, and competitive global policy, all of which are (even compromised) interwoven, and long term and goal oriented in this country, ...


The point the original post makes is: it is not going to happen. There is a real option still available for a few smart individuals to opt out and exploit the MATRIX for personal benefit. When things start to collapse this option dissipates very fast.
Imagine you understood the signs as they came. You would have invested heavily into military complex when GW Bush became the president (Cheney, Rumsfeld, CIA connections) and you would have bought major (then dirt cheap) bank stocks when Obama won the elections.





vincentML -> RE: Think for yourself (10/1/2012 1:48:39 PM)

quote:

We need an actual blue print, an actual economic policy, industrial policy, infrastructure policy, and competitive global policy, all of which are (even compromised) interwoven, and long term and goal oriented in this country, cuz in the war of the pocketbook, our ass is being handed to us, and our only solution is coming down to war and destruction, if we don't get our act together.

A central plan? What are you? A commie?

Friedrich Hayak?



mnottertail -> RE: Think for yourself (10/1/2012 1:55:25 PM)

Commie no, Hayek no, Von Mises no, Freidman no, Malthus no, Smith no, Keynes no, and many more no,  but I suppose a line or two of each if I have to identify with something.

It's all in which lines I identify with, I guess.  



dcnovice -> RE: Think for yourself (10/1/2012 3:17:32 PM)

quote:

Do not believe me think for yourself do your own research.

Am I the only who chuckled at the juxtaposition of this admonition with a lengthy list of unsourced "truths"?




tazzygirl -> RE: Think for yourself (10/1/2012 3:26:51 PM)

That was sorta my point. I expected some kind of "verification" for the 40% decline. Yet was basically told to trust them.



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