People are making me sad.... (Full Version)

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OsideGirl -> People are making me sad.... (9/5/2012 1:21:35 PM)

Kind of an odd story:

An acquaintance of ours was arrested last week after a "family member" accused him of sexually abusing his 10 year old step daughter. Because he has been on TV, the news covered it. As of this morning the DA has so far declined to file charges against him.

This is the extent of what the general public knows. The comments on Facebook basically have decided that he's guilty and should die based on less than 1% of information.


Because we know him, we know:

1) That the person that made the accusation is the girls biological father.

2) That the accuser was engaged in a bitter custody battle with the child's mother and lost.

3) The child's mother is a police officer.

4) The child's mother is the person that posted the bail.

5) That the DA's office is questioning the accusation and doing further investigation.

6) The person who has been accused had raised two daughters of his own and there has never been whisper of anything regarding this.



I sincerely don't think he did this. If he did, he deserves to have the book thrown at him.

But, I find the "kill him first, figure out if he's guilty later" sentiment of the mob to be disturbing.










LadyHibiscus -> RE: People are making me sad.... (9/5/2012 1:26:24 PM)

People hate child molesters. They love being vigilantes.

Poor guy.




PeonForHer -> RE: People are making me sad.... (9/5/2012 1:37:59 PM)

Who needs facts when there's a nice big juicy moral judgment just begging to be reached for, eh?




LookieNoNookie -> RE: People are making me sad.... (9/5/2012 3:59:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Kind of an odd story:

An acquaintance of ours was arrested last week after a "family member" accused him of sexually abusing his 10 year old step daughter. Because he has been on TV, the news covered it. As of this morning the DA has so far declined to file charges against him.

This is the extent of what the general public knows. The comments on Facebook basically have decided that he's guilty and should die based on less than 1% of information.


Because we know him, we know:

1) That the person that made the accusation is the girls biological father.

2) That the accuser was engaged in a bitter custody battle with the child's mother and lost.

3) The child's mother is a police officer.

4) The child's mother is the person that posted the bail.

5) That the DA's office is questioning the accusation and doing further investigation.

6) The person who has been accused had raised two daughters of his own and there has never been whisper of anything regarding this.

I sincerely don't think he did this. If he did, he deserves to have the book thrown at him.

But, I find the "kill him first, figure out if he's guilty later" sentiment of the mob to be disturbing.



Two things:

1) Guy (locally...Seattle/Green River Killer) was never deduced to be "the guy"...his family stood by him the entire time certain the cops must have been wrong, even as they had every detail on him.

2) I've seen men railroaded just because they have a penis and were in the wrong place at the wrong time......

I own a paving company.

I keep latex gloves in my car because when I pick up cones I don't want tar all over my hands.

I have multiple rolls of (small) rope because that's one of the (several) things we use to cordon off an area for work tomorrow.

I keep several rolls of duct tape in my car because that's what I use to attach the rope to the traffic cones (regular tape doesn't hold the rope much longer than it takes me to drive away).

AND.....I have painters hoods in my car because I don't like paint on me when my guys are painting (and more often than not, one of 12 of my guys forgets theirs....so I have spares), along with painters goggles, masks, etc.

I'm the perfect profile (if stopped)....and I know I'm not a bad guy.

So....I hope your friend doesn't get ramrodded by the police....and....I hope you're right.






ARIES83 -> RE: People are making me sad.... (9/5/2012 4:23:13 PM)

Ummm I actually have a friend that use to
live in a trailer park, he said one night he
heard sobbing and came out to have a look,
there was aparently a little girl wandering
around (probably was lost and couldn't find
her trailerhome) anyway, my friend wanted
to help but he had a quick think...
"well this is a trailerpark, at night, I'm a mid
thirties guy and this little girl is sobbing.....
That's not going to look good."

He had to leave the girl, go to a Female friend
of his who lived in there and ask her to come
help the girl...

Umm it's fucked up when good people can't
help others because of the bad preconceptions,
and people jumping to conclusions.

-ARIES




Killerangel -> RE: People are making me sad.... (9/5/2012 4:37:43 PM)

The sexual abuse of children is such a volatile subject and it will probably be the last thing that is ever treated fairly. Look at the hysteria that started with the McMartin trial. No one was convicted in that trial, but I bet there are people who still believe the worst of that family. The reason false sexual abuse is dragged into so many family situations is because it is the one thing that may sway an outcome - you have to be careful not to discount that it is happening and perpetuating a bad situation for a child. On the other hand you have the chance of pointing fingers falsely.




Celticgerman -> RE: People are making me sad.... (9/5/2012 4:39:29 PM)

I've encountered the "lynch mob" mindset before too. I hope that any actions are made strictly on fact and not emotions. I was in a school that hired child molesters, I was also forced to defend myself on more than one occasion against assault from him as the school and the authorities I spoke to didn't care at that time. Once I had to fend him off, a cop was called, a background check was finally done, and the truth was known.

I still hope that all actions pertaining to your friend are based strictly in fact and not just emotions. I don't know the accused, but I do know there have been many falsely accused people based on false information and shoddy detective work. I pray your acquaintance dodges that bullet.

Alex




gungadin09 -> RE: People are making me sad.... (9/5/2012 4:40:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
I sincerely don't think he did this... I find the "kill him first, figure out if he's guilty later" sentiment of the mob to be disturbing.


I hope you're right, and I agree.

Pam

P.S.- Would you mind posting a link?




Real0ne -> RE: People are making me sad.... (9/5/2012 4:45:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
I sincerely don't think he did this... I find the "kill him first, figure out if he's guilty later" sentiment of the mob to be disturbing.


I hope you're right and I agree.

Pam

P.S.- Would you mind posting a link?




not as long as we have people like farg around. he had zimmerman in the electric chair before anyone knew any FACTS.




LookieNoNookie -> RE: People are making me sad.... (9/5/2012 6:33:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

Ummm I actually have a friend that use to
live in a trailer park, he said one night he
heard sobbing and came out to have a look,
there was aparently a little girl wandering
around (probably was lost and couldn't find
her trailerhome) anyway, my friend wanted
to help but he had a quick think...
"well this is a trailerpark, at night, I'm a mid
thirties guy and this little girl is sobbing.....
That's not going to look good."

He had to leave the girl, go to a Female friend
of his who lived in there and ask her to come
help the girl...

Umm it's fucked up when good people can't
help others because of the bad preconceptions,
and people jumping to conclusions.

-ARIES


Well said.




kitkat105 -> RE: People are making me sad.... (9/5/2012 11:05:09 PM)

People are fucking assholes.




graceadieu -> RE: People are making me sad.... (9/6/2012 1:51:23 AM)

Hopefully you're right, it was just a spiteful false accusation and it gets cleared up quickly.

But, and I don't want to say anything bad about your friend specifically because of course I don't know him, his family or anything like that.... there have also been cases where abuse is really going on, the victim or somebody close to them comes forward, and nobody believes it, even the parents, because "they're such a good guy, there's never been a hint of anything bad about him" etc.

It's terrible to think they might convict an innocent person, but it's also terrible to think they might let a not convict a guilty one and let the abuse continue. Hopefully the police can find the truth.




needlesandpins -> RE: People are making me sad.... (9/6/2012 2:49:59 AM)

i do understand everything you've said. however, all of that could have been said about the guy that abused me. just because he raised his own daughters without supposed problem doesn't mean that he didn't take advantage of them in some way. please don't forget that just because his daughters have never admitted it it doesn't mean it never happened. no-one ever knows for sure what someone is capable of until it all comes out.

it could well be that the daughter confided in her father because her mum is with this guy. at the end of it though it will be the daughter who will have to say for sure what he did, or didn't do. i don't condone the mob mentality, but i would never stick my head in the sand and say it couldn't possibly happen with a particular person.

once found guilty i'd be the first in the que to push the plunger and kill the scum.

needles




OsideGirl -> RE: People are making me sad.... (9/6/2012 8:04:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
but i would never stick my head in the sand and say it couldn't possibly happen with a particular person.

I never said that it couldn't possibly have happened. I don't think he did, but there's a lot more information out there that we're not privy to.

Basically, I'm withholding judgement until the facts are in. If he did it, I'll be one of the first people to be willing to throw him in jail and throw away the key.

I also wonder if it comes out that he's innocent, if he'd be able to recover from the things that have been said about him.




Marc2b -> RE: People are making me sad.... (9/6/2012 8:22:05 AM)

The “kill him first, figure out if he’s guilty later” sentiment is, unfortunately, endemic to the human race. LadyHibiscus and PeonForHer pretty much nailed it. There are few things people enjoy more than being self righteous… it is such a cheap and easy way to give yourself an ego stroke off. People are so eager for a righteous orgasm that they often shoot (metaphorically speaking… usually) at the wrong target. IIRC some people in L.A. had to go into hiding because they had the same last name as the accused in the Trayvon Martin case?

I find it depressing, at times infuriating, how much you see this sort of thing, thanks to the internet. Somebody does something – or just says something – that at first glance (and often out of context) appears contemptible and the next thing you know it seems as if everybody and his brother is excoriating them… often in the vilest terms imaginable (I’ve recently come to the conclusion that the internet is turning the whole world into a giant middle school).

I claim no immunity from this myself. I don’t think anyone is immune. It is a very human thing to do… we don’t think clearly when we are feeling that first burst of anger. I do, however, try to put some effort these days into not joining the judgmental brigades… at least not right away. I finally learned my lesson about six years ago (I think it was) when the media informed me that I should hate some lacrosse players in North Carolina because they were a bunch of raping, racist, sexist, privileged, preppy white boys. They were the lowest of the low, knuckle dragging Neanderthals, foul smelling pond scum who should be expelled and imprisoned and beaten and castrated and… What? You sure about that? I see. Oh… Okay, then… Uhm… Well! Gotta go!

That is why I try (after the initial burst of anger over hearing something disgusting) to back off from commenting on the latest “string ‘em up” episode playing out in the media. I like to wait at least a few days for things to “shake out” and additional information to come to light. It seems like there’s always some additional information not mentioned in the original reporting. My “policy” on these matters is: I wasn’t there, I don’t know the people involved… so what do I really know about it? Let’s wait and see how things play out a bit, what new information comes to light, and then decide. At least then I can be self righteous with a little more confidence that I’m not being a total ass.

Unfortunately, I have also learned that the Judgmental Brigades not only have little tolerance for dissent but also have little tolerance for a neutral position, which is usually equated with condoning the unsavory act in question or, at least, of not caring. It’s the old, “if you’re not one of us, you’re one of them,” bullshit.

So what can you do? If you’re not directly involved in the Judgmental Brigade’s latest cause, there is little you can do except not join the mob and accept the fact that some people will hold you in contempt for not conforming to the group mind. I find it helps to regard myself as intellectually and morally superior to them. Heh, heh, heh. Okay, irony noted. But it does make you feel better.

What about when someone you know and care about is the target of such attacks? I’ve not really known such a situation in my lifetime (a relative of mine was accused of arson and murder once but I was too young to understand the situation… and it turns out he was actually guilty, anyway). As I see it you have two choices. You can step back and adopt a wait and see attitude, knowing you’ll have to take some lumps for doing so. Or, you can stand up state your doubts about the guilt of the accused. There too you’ll have to take some lumps (especially if it turns out you’re wrong) and, coming from people who know nothing about the situation or the people involved, I can imagine how supremely frustrating that would be. All you can do there is shake your head sadly, ignore them, and hope they mature a little some day.




LadyHibiscus -> RE: People are making me sad.... (9/6/2012 8:28:16 AM)

Needles, I know that many girls are sexually abused by their fathers, male relations, friends of same... it's one of the reasons I choked on the "no abortions in case of incest and rape" that the Republicans were trying to push. It's the "Kill them all let god sort them out" mentality that that lumps anyone that's accused into the same bin that's so horrible.




SpaceSpank -> RE: People are making me sad.... (9/6/2012 8:38:57 AM)

This is one of my biggest issues with false allegation claims for things like rape.

Even if they are found innocent, even if the entire case is stricken from the record, the damage is done. They will likely never be able to fully escape that shadow now. Even if they move away, the news coverage and internet chatter are still there, like a ticking time bomb waiting to be uncovered.

This is the kind of thing that can ruin someone's career, and their entire lives, regardless of guilt or innocence.



quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

I also wonder if it comes out that he's innocent, if he'd be able to recover from the things that have been said about him.





Marc2b -> RE: People are making me sad.... (9/6/2012 8:49:10 AM)

quote:

Two things:

1) Guy (locally...Seattle/Green River Killer) was never deduced to be "the guy"...his family stood by him the entire time certain the cops must have been wrong, even as they had every detail on him.

2) I've seen men railroaded just because they have a penis and were in the wrong place at the wrong time......

I own a paving company.

I keep latex gloves in my car because when I pick up cones I don't want tar all over my hands.

I have multiple rolls of (small) rope because that's one of the (several) things we use to cordon off an area for work tomorrow.

I keep several rolls of duct tape in my car because that's what I use to attach the rope to the traffic cones (regular tape doesn't hold the rope much longer than it takes me to drive away).

AND.....I have painters hoods in my car because I don't like paint on me when my guys are painting (and more often than not, one of 12 of my guys forgets theirs....so I have spares), along with painters goggles, masks, etc.

I'm the perfect profile (if stopped)....and I know I'm not a bad guy.

So....I hope your friend doesn't get ramrodded by the police....and....I hope you're right.


I can give you two tales of how paranoid and ignorant people are getting.

ONE: Some years ago, shortly after I started a new job, I got pulled over by the police who were alerted by some concerned locals that I was driving by the elementary school every day and slowing down to look at the children. They wanted to know why I was doing this. Well, I explained to them, it was because:

A) the school was along my route to work.

B) There is a big sign with flashing yellow lights that says "SCHOOL ZONE, 20 MPH."

C) Young children are known to do impulsive things like dart out into the street suddenly so I thought it would be a good idea to keep an eye on them... you know, so I don't run over the little darlings.

I can't help but wonder how many others go by that school at the same time every day and are not suspected of unsavory motives. Probably the ones who are not middle aged males, would be my guess.

TWO: A couple of years ago I was for a time, picking up my four year old grand niece from her pre-school and taking her home. I was used to dismissing the occasional look I got from people but one day I was pulled over again. Some old biddy of a twat had called the police and reported a possible child abduction. Apparently a middle aged, bearded white man driving a pick-up truck and his four year old, black, female passenger was just too odd a pairing for her to believe.
The bitch of it was that she meant well but I was too pissed and I went into full sarcasm mode.

HEY! NEWS FLASH LADY! IT'S THE TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY!

OH MY GOD! THE RACES ARE MIXING! IT'S THE FINAL SIGN OF THE APOCALYPSE!

There is one moment of the situation I will always cherish, however. When the police officer asked me if I was any relation to the little girl (he, apparently, being a little more enlightened than the old biddy of a twat) I replied, "I'm her uncle... well, great uncle if you want to get technical." The officer then asked my grand niece if I was her great uncle to which she replied, "he's always been a great uncle."

I still get a glow in my heart just thinking about it.







OsideGirl -> RE: People are making me sad.... (9/6/2012 9:22:06 AM)

The other part of this that makes me sad is that I'm sure a 10 year old girl is being asked questions that should never have to be asked of a 10 year old. If her father put her through this just to gain custody, he deserves to be beaten.




defiantbadgirl -> RE: People are making me sad.... (9/6/2012 9:23:15 AM)

Years ago, a friend of mine was investigated because a nosy neighbor peeping in his window saw him wipe his toddler after a bowel movement. Of course, he wasn't charged with anything but the fact that he was investigated at all stayed on his record for years. That's how it used to work with the state. Even if someone was found innocent, the fact they were investigated remained. Not sure if it's still that way.




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