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RE: Punishment or Pleasure - 6/10/2006 6:30:15 PM

BreakMeShakeMe

Posts: 339
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U
My favorite impliment for punishement is a dime...figure that one out.

Place the dime flat on the wall and have the person hold it there with the tip of their nose for however long you determine?

That's just a guess. Punishment isn't really part of my dynamic, but that is what came to mind when I read your post.

kyra

Same here kyra... it's not my dynamic either. I play alot. But when involved in a serious d/s relationship..or when I was in a m/s home. I never went out of my way to push to the point of being punished.

I was thinking about this same kind of thread the other day. I've never actually been physically punished. I personally find that to be a form of abuse. And it's something I won't tolerate. If I've done something that warrents being punished. Communicating this well get a better response from me. Now don't get me wrong... when in a scene (really still hate that word).. being whipped.. to this one.. isn't punishment. It's something being enjoyed by both of us. The receiver...and the giver.. both enjoying the moment...the responses... action period.

I may be submissive. But i'm not a child that needs punishment. If the dom i'm with wants something... simply asking will get it. Wanting it an exact certain way... instructions need to come with. Because there's no punishment for not knowing something. And if I don't get it right the second time.. a little reminder is all well and good. But there's no need for punishment.

Now I have been punished before as far as mentally. And that's another thing I don't take to. Head games. Someone decides to punish me by not speaking to me... fine ... no problem.. they will find themselves talking to themselves when they decide to talk again. Bottom line.. something went wrong. Need time to get over it before talking it out.. fine.. a little note.. a simple.. I need time.... will work. Little time not being more than a week tops. After that.. I just go about my own..and don't look back. And that's only after being verbally told they need time and or space. To just stop all together.. I give it sometimes less than a week. Depending on knowing what happened when they stopped communicating.

Now as for pain.. not puishment... well.. that's a whole different can of yum yum... LOL

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do, Skill is knowing how to, Virtue is just doing it.

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 21

RE: Punishment or Pleasure - 6/10/2006 8:47:45 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

Got a new swing on it. Am a masochist. Hate pain. Master taking out anything that causes pain.. punishment. Miserable intolerable pain! AAAAAAH. Screw balled. For this masochist pain is definetly not a reward. Though will say that when it comes in punishment form its oh so much more miserable with oh so little less mercy. When its not.. its easier.. there are breaks.. eh well sometimes. Sometimes its more tolerable.

dunno how one can be a masochist and yet hate pain. arg!

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 22

RE: Punishment or Pleasure - 6/11/2006 3:55:44 AM

bandit25

Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline

Is that the "hold the dime against the wall with your nose?"

(in reply to theRose4U)

Post #: 23

RE: Punishment or Pleasure - 6/11/2006 4:16:31 AM

twicehappy

Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

Knight that was an extraordinarily well written essay on one of the complexities a Master or Mistress needs to be cognitive of in order to own a sub/slave.

The ability to think outside the box and the desire to do so coupled with intelligence allowing the owner to look inside the mind of the owned are the hallmarks of a great Master.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 24

RE: Punishment or Pleasure - 6/11/2006 4:29:47 AM

Kedikat

Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline

The concept of punishment in D/s is very fuzzy. All those spank hungry little subs.
Punishment is a term that has to be defined in two ways. Punishment as fun for both D and s is just that, fun.
A Dominant has to learn what real punishment is to a sub. and keep that knowledge well hidden till the appropriate time.

Usually there is a variety of things that are real punishment if you have been paying attention ( phobias are really evil ). One more universal one is ignoring/corner time. Not using, abusing or even acknowledgeing the sub. If isolation is needed, do not confine closely, that can just be fun for them. Closeing them into a/their room can be the worst. They are not bound or caged, just left alone and unused/un needed. The room should be comfortable, with TV and phone etc.....but without you caring.

Of course this deprives the Dominant of all those pleasures of punishment as well. Be strong, revel in the real bite of it. Whup the ass upon the release of punishment, to let off the pressure on you both :)

< Message edited by Kedikat -- 6/11/2006 4:30:59 AM >

(in reply to sofaking)

Post #: 25

RE: Punishment or Pleasure - 6/11/2006 12:28:13 PM

81song

Posts: 293
Joined: 1/22/2005
Status: offline

For me its on a very fine line, very fine. How I found this out was once after making love I laid there covered in sweat. My lover let out a bird and somehow it was walking over my body. I knew at the time what it was and just felt its little feet over my body. What I did not know in that bird brain was when he saw my nipple he saw a little worm sticking his head oout of its hole. Well he did try to pull that worm out of it hole and at that time I could of kill that thing. But to this day that nipple is every so light to my finger or others. That is when the wheels were turning for me. Punishent or pleasure? Maybe both.
Sincerely,
81song

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 26

RE: Punishment or Pleasure - 6/11/2006 1:21:44 PM

tixarah

Posts: 21
Joined: 11/10/2005
Status: offline

for me, like many others, its not about the physical, but the mental. The second that i know i have done wrong and He is made or disappointed with me or what ive done, i feel the guilt sink in, i feel my heart fall to the floor and am trying to figure out how to fix it, how to make it right, because i know ive done the worst kind of wrong, i have upset Him........Doing or having done to me, whatever the punishment is, is never a heard concept after that because i want Him to be happy again....and i know that i deserve all i get in a case where i have made Him upset/angry or worst of all, disappointed in me....Like others have said, Just that look will start it all for me...that look, and godforbid, if He says "Im disappointed in you".....That has always gotten to me....
But to me hte worst punishment isnt pain (Though i do not like pain)....its being forbidden to talk to Him......WORST Thing EVER

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 27

RE: Punishment or Pleasure - 6/11/2006 1:25:35 PM

feastie

Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

Punishments are a reactive event, based in anger at the transgression and the transgressor. They are the hallmarks of a person who is incapable of dealing with a negative event in any other way.

If you, as a dominant, make a mistake at your job, are you beaten? No, you're called into your supervisor's office and you come out with a little less ass than when you entered.

The goals of a dominant are not to break the will of his submissive, to have her cower and fear for making him angry. The goals of a dominant are (or should be) to inspire his will to be done. To change perceptions that may be incongruous with his own.

A submissive's guilt at the displeasure of her dominant is overwhelming to her. Most never want to be displeasing, but everyone does make mistakes. A lesson can be taught incorporating this guilt and have much better results than any corporal punishment ever could.

There are those who do things specifically to incite her dominant to anger, and therefore, to a beating. This is because she wants the beating and has been taught by him or others before him, that spanking is a tool that is used for pleasure, but also for "punishment." She will eventually learn that she can control her spankings by doing things to make her dominant angry. Most people don't often think well when angry. Many will say, " Oh, she KNOWS the difference between a pleasure spanking and a punishment one." If the difference is that large, then it becomes abuse, whether agreed to or not.

Your mind is far more powerful than your backswing.

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to 81song)

Post #: 28

RE: Punishment or Pleasure - 6/11/2006 3:28:41 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

Knight that was an extraordinarily well written essay on one of the complexities a Master or Mistress needs to be cognitive of in order to own a sub/slave.

Thank you... that is indeed an extraordinary compliment on my own mediocrity

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 29

RE: Punishment or Pleasure - 6/11/2006 3:51:54 PM

mellian

Posts: 211
Joined: 9/6/2004
Status: offline

I take punishment and discipline seriously, not as some joke excuse to get beating. Hence I seperate my red/hard limits as hard reds and light reds, light red being things I do not enjoy or like, yet not completly against so it could be use punishment and discipline if the Domme choses...just not for the hell of it and for not reason.

-mellian

< Message edited by mellian -- 6/11/2006 3:53:19 PM >

(in reply to sofaking)

Post #: 30

RE: Punishment or Pleasure - 6/11/2006 4:10:59 PM

theRose4U

Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U
My favorite impliment for punishement is a dime...figure that one out.

Place the dime flat on the wall and have the person hold it there with the tip of their nose for however long you determine?

That's just a guess. Punishment isn't really part of my dynamic, but that is what came to mind when I read your post.

kyra

LOL SHHHH just because you actually read one of my posts you're cheating.

_____________________________

Finding a good sub is like sifting through trail mix. You find a few fruits, a lotta nuts and have to sift to get to the sweet and special ones
drama llama

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 31

RE: Punishment or Pleasure - 6/11/2006 4:23:20 PM

theRose4U

Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I've never actually been physically punished. I personally find that to be a form of abuse. And it's something I won't tolerate. If I've done something that warrents being punished. Communicating this well get a better response from me. Now don't get me wrong... when in a scene (really still hate that word).. being whipped.. to this one.. isn't punishment. It's something being enjoyed by both of us. The receiver...and the giver.. both enjoying the moment...the responses... action period.

I may be submissive. But i'm not a child that needs punishment. If the dom i'm with wants something... simply asking will get it. Wanting it an exact certain way... instructions need to come with. Because there's no punishment for not knowing something. And if I don't get it right the second time.. a little reminder is all well and good. But there's no need for punishment.

Think I'll wait to be offended until after you explain your definition of "physically punished" and where it was directed. I don't believe that I have ever been abusive.

Punishment is my least favorite thing. I'm with you that explaining the infraction should be enough...emphsis on should. Should be and are in the real world can be extremely different things. Frankly if I have to resort to punishment...the boy IS being a child and hasn't responded to correction.
Personally I think that the removal of affection or silent treatment is inneffective, abusive and damaging to a relationship.

_____________________________

Finding a good sub is like sifting through trail mix. You find a few fruits, a lotta nuts and have to sift to get to the sweet and special ones
drama llama

(in reply to theRose4U)

Post #: 32

RE: Punishment or Pleasure - 6/11/2006 5:40:47 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BreakMeShakeMe

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
Punishment isn't really part of my dynamic, but that is what came to mind when I read your post.

Same here kyra... it's not my dynamic either. I play alot. But when involved in a serious d/s relationship..or when I was in a m/s home. I never went out of my way to push to the point of being punished.

I think we have very different reasons though for punishment not being a part of our lives. Mine is only because my Lord chooses to use other methods to get the results he desires. At any time, he may decide that a particular punishment will more effectively get the result he desires and it will be used. For now, he prefers alternate methods.

I don't see punishment in and of itself as abusive. It can be, just as BDSM in the wrong hands can be, but that is true of almost anything. I do think the punishment/reward can be a slippery slope for any relationship. I do not need a reward or punishment to get me to be who I am; if I did, I am in the wrong relationship.

To each their own though.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to BreakMeShakeMe)

Post #: 33

RE: Punishment or Pleasure - 6/11/2006 5:41:54 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
Place the dime flat on the wall and have the person hold it there with the tip of their nose for however long you determine?

LOL SHHHH just because you actually read one of my posts you're cheating.

Nah... that's not cheating. That's just called studying *g*

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to theRose4U)

Post #: 34

RE: Punishment or Pleasure - 6/11/2006 10:24:20 PM

anniealt123

Posts: 13
Joined: 11/13/2005
Status: offline

I'm going to talk about physical punishment.

My last boyfriend spanked me for several reasons:
-Play,erotic,sensual spankings--I love and crave this type of spanking. It makes for great
forplay.
-Punishment spankings--These were very hard and I did not enjoy the pain. Although I did not like the physical pain, I liked the dynamic. I need that type of power exchange. It makes me feel much more submissive.

HTH
AA

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 35

RE: Punishment or Pleasure - 6/12/2006 12:02:58 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

The goals of a dominant are not to break the will of his submissive, to have her cower and fear for making him angry. The goals of a dominant are (or should be) to inspire his will to be done. To change perceptions that may be incongruous with his own.

A submissive's guilt at the displeasure of her dominant is overwhelming to her. Most never want to be displeasing, but everyone does make mistakes. A lesson can be taught incorporating this guilt and have much better results than any corporal punishment ever could.

There are those who do things specifically to incite her dominant to anger, and therefore, to a beating. This is because she wants the beating and has been taught by him or others before him, that spanking is a tool that is used for pleasure, but also for "punishment." She will eventually learn that she can control her spankings by doing things to make her dominant angry. Most people don't often think well when angry. Many will say, " Oh, she KNOWS the difference between a pleasure spanking and a punishment one." If the difference is that large, then it becomes abuse, whether agreed to or not.

Your mind is far more powerful than your backswing.

I agree with much of what you have said. I have known a couple of dominants that have had subs that wanted angry beatings... one I am currently seeing as a matter of fact. Both did not want to hit women while angry, one of them (the one I am seeeing) wouldn't do it at all. It can become unhealthy for both... note I did not say it WAS unhealthy, I said it can be unhealthy....

The other part of your post also rings true for me... I am prone to guilt and hate disappointing people I respect and admire. If my dominant is disappointed in me it is crushing. When I was a child nothing would make me cry faster than having angered/disappointed my parents... and I wasnt afraid if spankings because I never got them as a child.... disappointment was what I feared most. I havent changed..smiles

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to feastie)

Post #: 36

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