RE: Kingdom of Saud (Full Version)

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FrostedFlake -> RE: Kingdom of Saud (7/29/2012 10:39:20 PM)

quote:

Mayor Menino
“If they need licenses in the city, it will be very difficult — unless they open up their policies,” he warned.


The Mayor wants to see their policies on discrimination. What is the matter with that? And what about it is NOT a function of Government?

quote:

Boston Herald
Menino blocked Walmart from a Roxbury development last year, criticizing the retail giant’s impact on neighborhood businesses and lower-wage workers.

Now it looks as though he may try to do the same to Chick-fil-A.


It would seem the Mayor is on very solid legal ground.

quote:

NY Daily News
Mayor Bloomberg said New York would welcome Chick-fil-A with open arms despite the chain’s anti-gay marriage stance — while other big-city mayors warn the chain to stay away.

“It’s just not government’s job, and no matter how much you dislike somebody else’s views, think about what would happen in the cities where the views are on the other side,” Bloomberg said Friday on WOR radio’s “John Gambling Show.”

Bloomberg was reacting to moves by mayors in other big cities against the chain after its founder spoke out against gay marriage.


Mayor Billionaire seems not to know what Government is for. Anti-discrimination is one of its' core functions.

Let me tell you a story about a fella I used to be friends with. His name is not important. What is are two things.

1/ This guy was in my eyes absolutely perfect. I liked him so well I wouldn't have minded BEING him.

2/ One day over beer and Pizza, with his lady in attendance, he made me choose between him and gay people in general. I suppose he didn't realize that some of my friends were gay, but he made it him or them. I tried to defend them. He wouldn't hear. I tried a second time. He shot me down. I got up and left.

I haven't seen him again. I regret losing him. But today, my best friend is one of those gay people he made me choose over him. I don't regret that. Dr. Jennifer is fabulous and she cares, not just about me.


Mayor Menino is doing now as I did then.

And he is both right and IN the right.




Moonhead -> RE: Kingdom of Saud (7/30/2012 5:20:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel

What the mayor threatened to do is a crime regardless of the political views of the company. We have a thing called, "Freedom of speech" in this country.

You also have a thing called "accepting that your free speech might have consequences if anybody pays attention to what you're saying". I know that one only ever gets applied selectively, though.




Iamsemisweet -> RE: Kingdom of Saud (7/30/2012 7:36:48 AM)

A crime? He sent a letter. In a sense, he exercised that thing called "freedom of speech."

I know a little something about land use laws. If a mayor or city council could simply block businesses they didn't like, there wouldn't be a Walmart in lots of towns that had one forced down their throats. Land use laws simply don't work that way. The Mayor was posturing. Not a crime, and not even a very serious threat. So relax.
quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel

My, aren't we in a state today?

What the mayor threatened to do is a crime regardless of the political views of the company. We have a thing called, "Freedom of speech" in this country.

I don't like the message that company has to say. But they have every right to say it, just as I have the right not to purchase anything from them.





DesideriScuri -> RE: Kingdom of Saud (7/30/2012 10:52:37 AM)

Ya all are fools. The comment about permits being difficult to gain unless they change their policies isn't a threat?!? How can that be construed as not a threat?

A core role of government is anti-discrimination?!?!? And, exactly, how is allowing a Chik-Fil-A to open promoting discrimination? Is CFA preventing homosexuals from eating their chicken sammiches? Is CFA charging homosexuals more than they charge heterosexuals? How, exactly, is Chik-Fil-A discriminating by opening a store? What you are failing to realize is that Menino is discriminating against CFA, though that's perfectly fine because his views are more agreeable to your own.





mnottertail -> RE: Kingdom of Saud (7/30/2012 10:58:06 AM)

I guess we don't need to talk about the dixie chicks, while talking chicken. 




FrostedFlake -> RE: Kingdom of Saud (7/30/2012 2:32:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Ya all are fools. The comment about permits being difficult to gain unless they change their policies isn't a threat?!? How can that be construed as not a threat?

A core role of government is anti-discrimination?!?!? And, exactly, how is allowing a Chik-Fil-A to open promoting discrimination? Is CFA preventing homosexuals from eating their chicken sammiches? Is CFA charging homosexuals more than they charge heterosexuals? How, exactly, is Chik-Fil-A discriminating by opening a store? What you are failing to realize is that Menino is discriminating against CFA, though that's perfectly fine because his views are more agreeable to your own.


Let me make it simple for you.

quote:

Boston.com
http://articles.boston.com/2012-07-29/opinion/32881676_1_boston-mayor-mayoral-power-chicken-sandwich
Mayor Tom Menino wants to keep fast-food chain Chick-fil-A out of Boston because the company opposes same-sex marriage.


What business has a business having an opinion about Gay Marriage? What business has a business donating money to make that opinion felt? And why is no one allowed to have and express an opinion about the Corporations opinion of peoples rights?

Are you saying that Corporations are people and people are not? Are you saying Corporations have political rights of expression ($$$$$) and nonpolitical rights to redefine and punish people ($$$$$) while people have to like it or lump it? Are you saying a Mayor is not responsible for what happens in his town on his watch? Are you saying that the chief role of a Mayor is NOT to define the future and lead his town in that direction? Are you saying that one in ten Americans can go straight or go straight to Hell?

If I have missed the mark, Clarify. But clarify with clarity. Your religious bigotry is not an acceptable point. It's just bigotry wearing a suit.

ETA: Sorry. Bigotry wearing 'vestments'. Chick-Fil-A is wearing the suit.




kalikshama -> RE: Kingdom of Saud (7/30/2012 2:55:17 PM)

quote:

I guess we don't need to talk about the dixie chicks, while talking chicken. 


Well, since you brought them up:

[image]http://pundit.blogpeoria.com/files/2012/04/nugent_sucks.jpg[/image]




Owner59 -> RE: Kingdom of Saud (7/30/2012 5:08:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJohnSteed

Well Who is America's Best Buddy in the Middle East?
Who do we get a majority of our oil from??

Why its Saudi Arabia, of Course!

But Wait now we have to boycott anyone who is Anti Gay Marriage!

In Saudi Arabia and many other Arabic countries being gay is A CRIME and not just any crime mind you. Its a capital offense. That's right they will kill you for being gay.

I don't know how many gay people are giving up their cars and walking for biking to work because of the policies of the Kingdom of Saud, but we have to flip out about one christian business man, giving a interview in a christian magazine. Not intended for a gay audience but for an audience that would approve of his message.


Glad to see your concern for gays and their rights.........[8|]




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Kingdom of Saud (7/30/2012 5:49:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJohnSteed

Well Who is America's Best Buddy in the Middle East?
Who do we get a majority of our oil from??

Why its Saudi Arabia, of Course!

But Wait now we have to boycott anyone who is Anti Gay Marriage!

In Saudi Arabia and many other Arabic countries being gay is A CRIME and not just any crime mind you. Its a capital offense. That's right they will kill you for being gay.

I don't know how many gay people are giving up their cars and walking for biking to work because of the policies of the Kingdom of Saud, but we have to flip out about one christian business man, giving a interview in a christian magazine. Not intended for a gay audience but for an audience that would approve of his message.


Just more good reason to frack.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Kingdom of Saud (7/30/2012 8:14:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Ya all are fools. The comment about permits being difficult to gain unless they change their policies isn't a threat?!? How can that be construed as not a threat?
A core role of government is anti-discrimination?!?!? And, exactly, how is allowing a Chik-Fil-A to open promoting discrimination? Is CFA preventing homosexuals from eating their chicken sammiches? Is CFA charging homosexuals more than they charge heterosexuals? How, exactly, is Chik-Fil-A discriminating by opening a store? What you are failing to realize is that Menino is discriminating against CFA, though that's perfectly fine because his views are more agreeable to your own.

Let me make it simple for you.
What business has a business having an opinion about Gay Marriage? What business has a business donating money to make that opinion felt? And why is no one allowed to have and express an opinion about the Corporations opinion of peoples rights?
Are you saying that Corporations are people and people are not? Are you saying Corporations have political rights of expression ($$$$$) and nonpolitical rights to redefine and punish people ($$$$$) while people have to like it or lump it? Are you saying a Mayor is not responsible for what happens in his town on his watch? Are you saying that the chief role of a Mayor is NOT to define the future and lead his town in that direction? Are you saying that one in ten Americans can go straight or go straight to Hell?
If I have missed the mark, Clarify. But clarify with clarity. Your religious bigotry is not an acceptable point. It's just bigotry wearing a suit.
ETA: Sorry. Bigotry wearing 'vestments'. Chick-Fil-A is wearing the suit.


Yep, you totally missed everything. You argue about Corporations being people, but we're not comparing Corporations to people. We're comparing Corporations to Government. You are saying that Menino, since he's a person, can say whatever he wants, veiled threat or not, but the owner of Chik-Fil-A can't say whatever he wants, even though he, too, is a person. Apparently, you're willing to silence one person, but not another, based on beliefs.

So, the guy doesn't believe in gay marriage. So what? There is not a "Gay Marriage Support" herb or spice used in the cooking process, so it doesn't matter at all.

The role of government is to prevent discrimination. But, it isn't to prevent the owner of a business from locating his business in a city. If Chik-Fil-A were to discriminate against homosexuals by not serving them, charging them higher prices, or any of a number of employer-employee discriminations, I can see shutting a business down if it doesn't change course. But, that's not what is happening by any stretch.

Let the people vote with their feet and wallets. If the population is so anti-Chik-Fil-A over this belief, let them decide to not spend their money in that establishment. If others want to support that, let them eat there. Preventing a business from locating in a locations solely because of the belief of the owner (who may nor may not ever step foot in the establishment), is discrimination, and not what government is about.

You can get all bent out of shape because of one guy's beliefs. Go for it. I'm not really into that sort of fetish. It's okay if you are, but it's just not for me.





tweakabelle -> RE: Kingdom of Saud (7/30/2012 10:40:42 PM)

The standard for community objections to specific businesses was set by those backward Reps in (I think) Kansas who imposed quite deliberately by law, such onerous planning regulations on an abortion clinic that it was forced to close its doors and cease supplying its services to the community.

So for the Right to claim that was business as usual but this is an outrageous abuse of public office is more than a tad hypocritical.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Kingdom of Saud (7/31/2012 4:20:35 AM)

Are you saying, then, that the R's were correct back then, or that the D's are wrong this time? It's one or the other.




kalikshama -> RE: Kingdom of Saud (7/31/2012 11:27:30 AM)

[image]http://cdn.front.moveon.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Gay-Marriage-Legalized-Chart.gif[/image]




FrostedFlake -> RE: Kingdom of Saud (7/31/2012 8:58:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Ya all are fools. The comment about permits being difficult to gain unless they change their policies isn't a threat?!? How can that be construed as not a threat?
A core role of government is anti-discrimination?!?!? And, exactly, how is allowing a Chik-Fil-A to open promoting discrimination? Is CFA preventing homosexuals from eating their chicken sammiches? Is CFA charging homosexuals more than they charge heterosexuals? How, exactly, is Chik-Fil-A discriminating by opening a store? What you are failing to realize is that Menino is discriminating against CFA, though that's perfectly fine because his views are more agreeable to your own.

Let me make it simple for you.
What business has a business having an opinion about Gay Marriage? What business has a business donating money to make that opinion felt? And why is no one allowed to have and express an opinion about the Corporations opinion of peoples rights?
Are you saying that Corporations are people and people are not? Are you saying Corporations have political rights of expression ($$$$$) and nonpolitical rights to redefine and punish people ($$$$$) while people have to like it or lump it? Are you saying a Mayor is not responsible for what happens in his town on his watch? Are you saying that the chief role of a Mayor is NOT to define the future and lead his town in that direction? Are you saying that one in ten Americans can go straight or go straight to Hell?
If I have missed the mark, Clarify. But clarify with clarity. Your religious bigotry is not an acceptable point. It's just bigotry wearing a suit.
ETA: Sorry. Bigotry wearing 'vestments'. Chick-Fil-A is wearing the suit.


Yep, you totally missed everything. You argue about Corporations being people, but we're not comparing Corporations to people. We're comparing Corporations to Government. You are saying that Menino, since he's a person, can say whatever he wants, veiled threat or not, but the owner of Chik-Fil-A can't say whatever he wants, even though he, too, is a person. Apparently, you're willing to silence one person, but not another, based on beliefs.

So, the guy doesn't believe in gay marriage. So what? There is not a "Gay Marriage Support" herb or spice used in the cooking process, so it doesn't matter at all.

The role of government is to prevent discrimination. But, it isn't to prevent the owner of a business from locating his business in a city. If Chik-Fil-A were to discriminate against homosexuals by not serving them, charging them higher prices, or any of a number of employer-employee discriminations, I can see shutting a business down if it doesn't change course. But, that's not what is happening by any stretch.

Let the people vote with their feet and wallets. If the population is so anti-Chik-Fil-A over this belief, let them decide to not spend their money in that establishment. If others want to support that, let them eat there. Preventing a business from locating in a locations solely because of the belief of the owner (who may nor may not ever step foot in the establishment), is discrimination, and not what government is about.

You can get all bent out of shape because of one guy's beliefs. Go for it. I'm not really into that sort of fetish. It's okay if you are, but it's just not for me.



Sorry folks, I didn't want to alter one word.

DesideriScuri, You are a loon. A sandwich shop has absolutely no business telling me what my rights are. A Mayor is directly on point to protect my rights from ...a loon.

As for 'bent out of shape', I am going to post that separately. So the Mods can remove the post, grace me with gold and put me on probation, without removing this post.




FrostedFlake -> RE: Kingdom of Saud (7/31/2012 9:11:42 PM)

THIS is 'bent out of shape'.

Desi, you bigots have been deprived of (In no particular order) of Native Americans, Germans, Irishmen, Italians, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, African Americans, Hispanics, and Hebrews and you are just heart-sick about it. And you really, really-really DON'T want to give up the Homosexuals and the Muslims. Because then you won't be better than ANYONE. And you just can't allow that. Because then you would have to actually be of some good to someone before you can feel there is some VALUE to your existence. And you just don't want to take the time and trouble.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Kingdom of Saud (8/1/2012 4:36:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake
THIS is 'bent out of shape'.
Desi, you bigots have been deprived of (In no particular order) of Native Americans, Germans, Irishmen, Italians, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, African Americans, Hispanics, and Hebrews and you are just heart-sick about it. And you really, really-really DON'T want to give up the Homosexuals and the Muslims. Because then you won't be better than ANYONE. And you just can't allow that. Because then you would have to actually be of some good to someone before you can feel there is some VALUE to your existence. And you just don't want to take the time and trouble.


Not only is it "bent out of shape," it's also dead ass wrong.

Considering how my ancestry is comprised of two of the mentioned heritages I am deprived of, I find it odd that you don't know much at all about me. Personally, the only gay marriage I'm against, is my own (that being because I'm not into that sort of thing). The Best Man at my since-defunct hetero- marriage was black.

But, do go on and think you have a fucking clue.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Kingdom of Saud (8/1/2012 5:19:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake
Sorry folks, I didn't want to alter one word.
DesideriScuri, You are a loon. A sandwich shop has absolutely no business telling me what my rights are. A Mayor is directly on point to protect my rights from ...a loon.


Interestingly enough, the sandwich shop isn't telling you what your rights are. If you think that by donating to a cause they believe in, they are telling you what your rights are, well, guess what, you have no business telling me what my rights are. No one has the right to donate to any social cause. Donate to any PAC, and you're now telling everyone else what their right is.

It's an eatery.

Very in-depth article here.

The interview.

    quote:


    Some have opposed the company's support of the traditional family. "Well, guilty as charged," said Cathy when asked about the company's position.

    "We are very much supportive of the family -- the biblical definition of the family unit. We are a family-owned business, a family-led business, and we are married to our first wives. We give God thanks for that.

    "We operate as a family business ... our restaurants are typically led by families; some are single. We want to do anything we possibly can to strengthen families. We are very much committed to that," Cathy emphasized.


What Menino is doing is preventing a business from operating in his city, based solely on the Biblical beliefs (aka religion) of the COO of the company. Now, what he is also doing is preventing a franchisee from running a business in his city based solely on the biblical beliefs of the COO of the company, which may or may not be the same as the franchisee's belief system.

But, since the COO's Biblical beliefs and support of hetero-marriage don't agree with your own, you apparently think it's okay to discriminate against the company his father created.

At what point in time is it okay for government to decide the religious values of its constituents? Is it okay for a Mayor to oppose the building of a "Christian" church? A Synagogue? A Mosque? A Temple? When has it become okay in this country, for Government to decide what religious belief is acceptable and which religious belief isn't?

Damn. Here I thought, we were free to believe and worship as we pleased.







VideoAdminTheta -> RE: Kingdom of Saud (8/1/2012 5:32:15 AM)

Once again, I must remind forum posters of posting guidelines. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3863025

This thread and any other that we must clean out to this degree, will be locked. Please don't expect another thread on the topic to be allowed.

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