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RE: More Stand Your Ground Fun In Sunny Florida...... - 7/28/2012 7:00:34 AM   
Nosathro


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

And now the rest of the story Owner kinda failed to mention in his bullshit diatribe...

quote:


Cape Coral, Florida (News-Press) -- A former prosecutor described him Thursday as a "time bomb" because seven years ago, he pointed a gun at a woman who simply wanted to read his electric meter.

On Wednesday, Kenneth Roop, 52, of Cape Coral, pointed a gun again, police say, and this time fired two shots, telling police he was "in fear." He is charged with second-degree murder in the death of Nick Rainey, 30, who wanted to sell him frozen steaks and lobster.
Link

Now owner, can you explain why you found it necessary to present the story as a Fla Stand Your Ground story when it's obvious that the popo didn't buy Roop's story, and the sorry fuck was arrested and in custody?

Why do you think he wasn't charged with felony assault when he pointed the gun at a meter reader?
A conviction there would have prevented him from having a permit.


Actually under the Florida law certain misdemonors would bar a person from a obtaining a Concealed weapons permit, however I understand Florida issues permits without background checks and like candy.

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RE: More Stand Your Ground Fun In Sunny Florida...... - 7/28/2012 7:05:24 AM   
Nosathro


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Status: offline 		Seems Lawyer are using the Stand Your Ground law.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/lawyers-stand-your-ground-law-becoming-more-common-defense/1227798

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/stand-ground-legal-defenses-worked-florida-cases-where-183345434.html

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RE: More Stand Your Ground Fun In Sunny Florida...... - 7/28/2012 7:42:51 AM   
kalikshama


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Status: offline 		When the lawyer is considering using Stand Your Ground as a defense, it is in fact a SYG story.

Stand Your Ground defense may arise in killing of salesman in Cape Coral

A lawyer for a Cape Coral man charged with fatally shooting a steak and lobster meat salesman on the homeowner’s property Wednesday has said he will consider using Florida’s Stand Your Ground law as a defense.

That argument that is becoming the defense of choice for lawyers in such cases.

Lee and Collier counties had at least four cases in the past year with one defendant — a Collier County teen — being acquitted. The Tampa Bay Times found the law to be a factor in at least 93 cases statewide last year. Charges were dropped in 57 cases. Seven defendants were acquitted.

“More and more people are alleging Stand Your Ground,” Fort Myers prosecutor John Mills said Friday. “Lawyers apply it to the way facts are given, but many times different witnesses have different interpretations of the facts.”

Read more: http://www.news-press.com/article/20120728/CRIME/307280017/Stand-Your-Ground-defense-may-arise-killing-salesman-Cape-Coral?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CHome

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RE: More Stand Your Ground Fun In Sunny Florida...... - 7/28/2012 8:05:05 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
The stand your ground laws have problems in the way they are written, since in some cases it allows for the use of deadly force when use of that force is not needed.

The SYG laws always allow use of deadly force when it isn't needed. That's the whole point.

The common law doctrine that retreat is your first option still allows the use of deadly force when retreat isn't possible and your life, or the life of another, is in imminent danger. So any time SYG is invoked it is because the murderer used deadly force when it was not actually necessary.

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RE: More Stand Your Ground Fun In Sunny Florida...... - 7/28/2012 8:21:44 AM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Why do you think he wasn't charged with felony assault when he pointed the gun at a meter reader?
A conviction there would have prevented him from having a permit.


I'd guess there weren't any witnesses and it was a he said/he said case. If he did it, the SA didn't have the evidence to convict. But he wasn't, and despite Viking's claim, the cops didn't buy Roop's SYG story and arrested his dumb ass... So this really isn't a SYG story, no matter how much Owner would like it to be.

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RE: More Stand Your Ground Fun In Sunny Florida...... - 7/28/2012 8:25:48 AM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

When the lawyer is considering using Stand Your Ground as a defense, it is in fact a SYG story.

Stand Your Ground defense may arise in killing of salesman in Cape Coral

A lawyer for a Cape Coral man charged with fatally shooting a steak and lobster meat salesman on the homeowner’s property Wednesday has said he will consider using Florida’s Stand Your Ground law as a defense.

That argument that is becoming the defense of choice for lawyers in such cases.

Lee and Collier counties had at least four cases in the past year with one defendant — a Collier County teen — being acquitted. The Tampa Bay Times found the law to be a factor in at least 93 cases statewide last year. Charges were dropped in 57 cases. Seven defendants were acquitted.

“More and more people are alleging Stand Your Ground,” Fort Myers prosecutor John Mills said Friday. “Lawyers apply it to the way facts are given, but many times different witnesses have different interpretations of the facts.”

Read more: http://www.news-press.com/article/20120728/CRIME/307280017/Stand-Your-Ground-defense-may-arise-killing-salesman-Cape-Coral?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CHome


Bullshit, it's a SYG story only if Roop wins in court, the defense tactics don't mean shit if the defendant goes to prison. The Prosecutor determines the charge, not the Defense Council. If this were a SYG story, Roop wouldn't have been charged with murder.

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RE: More Stand Your Ground Fun In Sunny Florida...... - 7/28/2012 8:27:33 AM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
The stand your ground laws have problems in the way they are written, since in some cases it allows for the use of deadly force when use of that force is not needed.

The SYG laws always allow use of deadly force when it isn't needed. That's the whole point.

The common law doctrine that retreat is your first option still allows the use of deadly force when retreat isn't possible and your life, or the life of another, is in imminent danger. So any time SYG is invoked it is because the murderer used deadly force when it was not actually necessary.



Why should one have to flee first? Why do the criminals rights trump the defenders in your world?

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RE: More Stand Your Ground Fun In Sunny Florida...... - 7/28/2012 8:34:56 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Why do you think he wasn't charged with felony assault when he pointed the gun at a meter reader?
A conviction there would have prevented him from having a permit.

He was charged,.. it went to trial,.. a jury acquitted him..


< Message edited by tj444 -- 7/28/2012 8:38:25 AM >

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RE: More Stand Your Ground Fun In Sunny Florida...... - 7/28/2012 9:32:41 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Why do you think he wasn't charged with felony assault when he pointed the gun at a meter reader?
A conviction there would have prevented him from having a permit.


I'd guess there weren't any witnesses and it was a he said/he said case. If he did it, the SA didn't have the evidence to convict. But he wasn't, and despite Viking's claim, the cops didn't buy Roop's SYG story and arrested his dumb ass... So this really isn't a SYG story, no matter how much Owner would like it to be.

ty rob

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RE: More Stand Your Ground Fun In Sunny Florida...... - 7/28/2012 10:46:52 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
The stand your ground laws have problems in the way they are written, since in some cases it allows for the use of deadly force when use of that force is not needed.

The SYG laws always allow use of deadly force when it isn't needed. That's the whole point.

The common law doctrine that retreat is your first option still allows the use of deadly force when retreat isn't possible and your life, or the life of another, is in imminent danger. So any time SYG is invoked it is because the murderer used deadly force when it was not actually necessary.



Why should one have to flee first? Why do the criminals rights trump the defenders in your world?

Because taking a life should always be the last resort.

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: More Stand Your Ground Fun In Sunny Florida...... - 7/28/2012 11:12:25 AM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Because taking a life should always be the last resort.



Bullshit, that only empowers the criminal element in society to continue committing crimes. Some people just deserve to get shot for their criminal behavior, the recidivism rate of our prison system is proof that most criminals can't be reformed.

There is nothing special or sacred about a human life, we die just as easily as any other animal on this planet.

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RE: More Stand Your Ground Fun In Sunny Florida...... - 7/28/2012 11:32:35 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

There is nothing special or sacred about a human life


And here we have the heart of the gun lobby's position.

That's really it, isn't--those who value human life vs. those who don't.

(in reply to subrob1967)
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RE: More Stand Your Ground Fun In Sunny Florida...... - 7/28/2012 11:37:52 AM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

is it possible this idiots mistaken take on the law contributed to his trigger happy actions ?
which would ,of course ,make this a 'stand your ground' STORY

Well no, it makes it a story about an idiots' mistaken take on the law.

Kinda like certains threads.

K.

Well no,actually it is still a story,and a thread,about a poorly written and poorly thought out law.
Once you dramatically increase the parameters wherein one can legally use deadly force to defend oneself you should expect(as a number of members of the law enforcement community did in fact predict)a corresponding increase of shootings that occur outside of those parameters.
Of course those who think this is a good law will continue to try to distance the law from these events.Much like saying gun violence isn't about guns.....you know that silly canard that"guns don't kill,people do"

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RE: More Stand Your Ground Fun In Sunny Florida...... - 7/28/2012 11:41:06 AM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Because taking a life should always be the last resort.



Bullshit, that only empowers the criminal element in society to continue committing crimes. Some people just deserve to get shot for their criminal behavior, the recidivism rate of our prison system is proof that most criminals can't be reformed.

There is nothing special or sacred about a human life, we die just as easily as any other animal on this planet.

I am tempted,after reading this post,to point out that as long as it is your life we are discussing the above is true

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: More Stand Your Ground Fun In Sunny Florida...... - 7/28/2012 11:41:12 AM   
DaddySatyr


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Status: offline 		I'm truly surprised to see abortion defenders arguing about the value of human life. It's ironic.
 
 
 
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RE: More Stand Your Ground Fun In Sunny Florida...... - 7/28/2012 11:43:41 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		I was just thinking that about abortion opponents when reading subrob's point that there's nothing special or sacred about human life.

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RE: More Stand Your Ground Fun In Sunny Florida...... - 7/28/2012 11:44:57 AM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I'm truly surprised to see abortion defenders arguing about the value of human life. It's ironic.
 
 
 
Peace and comfort,
 
 
 
Michael

Point out any "abortion defenders" on these boards!
In searching for them I am hoping you will come to the realization that being pro-choice isn't even close to being pro abortion.
Of course I'm an optimist,and frequently find myself rooting for the improbable.....lol.


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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: More Stand Your Ground Fun In Sunny Florida...... - 7/28/2012 11:53:25 AM   
kalikshama


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Status: offline 		I believe that abortion should be safe, legal, and rare. More birth control, fewer abortions.

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RE: More Stand Your Ground Fun In Sunny Florida...... - 7/28/2012 12:02:42 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

I believe that abortion should be safe, legal, and rare. More birth control, fewer abortions.

And this of course is what most pro choice advocates would say.
Of course an effective way to resist common sense stances is to take them and minimize them by distorting them.
Gun control advocates become folks who want to take your guns from you,pro choice becomes pro abortion
This is all in the conservative's handbook,personally I think it is silly and ineffective,but these folks swear by it.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: More Stand Your Ground Fun In Sunny Florida...... - 7/28/2012 12:53:20 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Because taking a life should always be the last resort.



Bullshit, that only empowers the criminal element in society to continue committing crimes. Some people just deserve to get shot for their criminal behavior, the recidivism rate of our prison system is proof that most criminals can't be reformed.

There is nothing special or sacred about a human life, we die just as easily as any other animal on this planet.

That we die so easily is the point. That you don't get that is kind of scary.

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 40
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