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Editing History - 7/11/2012 4:34:47 PM   
RemoteUser


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This is a spin-off from another thread. On that thread I referenced the "n" word in an educational sense, stating it was a term my grandparents used because that's how they were raised.

Auto-edit replaced the word with four star symbols.

I understand why it was done - the staff set it up to delete the word. Does that make it right, though? It's one thing to deter the use of a derogatory word, quite another to pretend it doesn't exist. I'm not judging why the auto-edit kicked in or why it was put in place. I'm thinking in broader terms, on a social level.

If we try to stamp out our mistakes, I don't think we can learn from them. I also think keeping all of our past, good, bad and ugly forces us to weigh ourselves with more critical appreciation than if we don't. It's like going back and editing old cartoons or books to erase something that is unacceptable for that society, at that point in time. It's censorship on a level that makes me personally uncomfortable, but that's just my feeling on the subject.

I am curious to hear the opinions of others though. What do you think about editing history - good, bad, indifferent? How do you feel about it?

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RE: Editing History - 7/11/2012 4:51:46 PM   
slaveluci


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Yeah, I've always found it hypocritical that you get **** for the "n" word but you can type white trash, cracker, hillbilly and other bigoted hate terms all day long. They're funny, dont'cha know? Don't get me started. The voice of one crying in the wilderness

luci

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RE: Editing History - 7/11/2012 6:37:30 PM   
JstAnotherSub


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to the OP, I suspect the ****** comes from either pressure or from just wanting to avoid having to worry about all of the time it would take to follow up tickets created because while person x thought it was perfectly ok for person y to use the word, they found person z's use of it totally unacceptable and insulting.

As far as I know, no conversation regarding this subject has ever ended in anything except an explosion. (on here, not in real life, with folks who actually know you)

To Luci, make that 2 voices in the wilderness. I do not understand how some offensive words are censored, while others are allowed to flow freely.



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RE: Editing History - 7/11/2012 6:45:41 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

This is a spin-off from another thread. On that thread I referenced the "n" word in an educational sense, stating it was a term my grandparents used because that's how they were raised.

Auto-edit replaced the word with four star symbols.

I understand why it was done - the staff set it up to delete the word. Does that make it right, though? It's one thing to deter the use of a derogatory word, quite another to pretend it doesn't exist. I'm not judging why the auto-edit kicked in or why it was put in place. I'm thinking in broader terms, on a social level.

If we try to stamp out our mistakes, I don't think we can learn from them. I also think keeping all of our past, good, bad and ugly forces us to weigh ourselves with more critical appreciation than if we don't. It's like going back and editing old cartoons or books to erase something that is unacceptable for that society, at that point in time. It's censorship on a level that makes me personally uncomfortable, but that's just my feeling on the subject.

I am curious to hear the opinions of others though. What do you think about editing history - good, bad, indifferent? How do you feel about it?


I once put my ex wife's name in here accidentally and it came out in the post as "C**T".

(Crazy shit huh?)

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RE: Editing History - 7/11/2012 6:52:32 PM   
RemoteUser


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

This is a spin-off from another thread. On that thread I referenced the "n" word in an educational sense, stating it was a term my grandparents used because that's how they were raised.

Auto-edit replaced the word with four star symbols.

I understand why it was done - the staff set it up to delete the word. Does that make it right, though? It's one thing to deter the use of a derogatory word, quite another to pretend it doesn't exist. I'm not judging why the auto-edit kicked in or why it was put in place. I'm thinking in broader terms, on a social level.

If we try to stamp out our mistakes, I don't think we can learn from them. I also think keeping all of our past, good, bad and ugly forces us to weigh ourselves with more critical appreciation than if we don't. It's like going back and editing old cartoons or books to erase something that is unacceptable for that society, at that point in time. It's censorship on a level that makes me personally uncomfortable, but that's just my feeling on the subject.

I am curious to hear the opinions of others though. What do you think about editing history - good, bad, indifferent? How do you feel about it?


I once put my ex wife's name in here accidentally and it came out in the post as "C**T".

(Crazy shit huh?)


Let me guess, her name was C**T

ETA: Well I guess I was right!

< Message edited by RemoteUser -- 7/11/2012 6:53:44 PM >


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RE: Editing History - 7/11/2012 6:55:37 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

This is a spin-off from another thread. On that thread I referenced the "n" word in an educational sense, stating it was a term my grandparents used because that's how they were raised.

Auto-edit replaced the word with four star symbols.

I understand why it was done - the staff set it up to delete the word. Does that make it right, though? It's one thing to deter the use of a derogatory word, quite another to pretend it doesn't exist. I'm not judging why the auto-edit kicked in or why it was put in place. I'm thinking in broader terms, on a social level.

If we try to stamp out our mistakes, I don't think we can learn from them. I also think keeping all of our past, good, bad and ugly forces us to weigh ourselves with more critical appreciation than if we don't. It's like going back and editing old cartoons or books to erase something that is unacceptable for that society, at that point in time. It's censorship on a level that makes me personally uncomfortable, but that's just my feeling on the subject.

I am curious to hear the opinions of others though. What do you think about editing history - good, bad, indifferent? How do you feel about it?


I once put my ex wife's name in here accidentally and it came out in the post as "C**T".

(Crazy shit huh?)


Let me guess, her name was C**T

ETA: Well I guess I was right!

Holy shit, now thats funny!!!!!!!!!!!

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RE: Editing History - 7/11/2012 7:15:05 PM   
DesFIP


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I don't think it's editing history. That's something you would do if you chose not to teach about the power of words, editing textbooks and literature. But on a site such as this, it's obviously being meant to prevent people from attacking each other.

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RE: Editing History - 7/11/2012 7:17:03 PM   
RemoteUser


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I don't think it's editing history. That's something you would do if you chose not to teach about the power of words, editing textbooks and literature. But on a site such as this, it's obviously being meant to prevent people from attacking each other.


I agree. I also see it as symptomatic of recent shifts in society pressuring certain forms of expression to be quietly destroyed. The cartoon editing is a great example.


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RE: Editing History - 7/12/2012 2:08:19 AM   
DeviantlyD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I don't think it's editing history. That's something you would do if you chose not to teach about the power of words, editing textbooks and literature. But on a site such as this, it's obviously being meant to prevent people from attacking each other.


I agree. I also see it as symptomatic of recent shifts in society pressuring certain forms of expression to be quietly destroyed. The cartoon editing is a great example.



I disagree, not with DesFIP's statement but yours. The site administrators/owner can do whatever they want. When free speech in a public place is squelched, that's another matter, but this is a privately run site open to the public. There is a difference. I don't see the site as bowing to any sort of societal pressure. Rather, they are trying to be sensitive to the members of this site who take great personal offense to a very emotionally charged word. It was less than a year ago that this site changed that word from one that could be typed out to *'s. I recall the derisive thread that, I believe, motivated the change.

Quite honestly, I cannot see a reason anywhere at any time in any context for that word to be used. Its history is as a word of hate. I do not see its sequestration as an omen of future suppression of freedoms. I think Aldous Huxley got it right and George Orwell didn't. If oppression happens, it's going to be willing one via the apathy of the people and not through tyranny.

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RE: Editing History - 7/12/2012 5:22:13 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

It's one thing to deter the use of a derogatory word, quite another to pretend it doesn't exist.

When I see ####, I know what that means and the ugly history behind it. I don't need to see it spelled out.

quote:

Yeah, I've always found it hypocritical that you get **** for the "n" word but you can type white trash, cracker, hillbilly and other bigoted hate terms all day long.

I don't think this is the same at all.

http://wrt-intertext.syr.edu/XI/Nigger.html

Nigger: Language, History, and Modern Day Discourse

...As a black American male, the word nigger conjures up within me hate, hostility, violence, oppression, and a very shameful and unfortunate part of American History. The word symbolizes the everlasting chains of a people plagued with hate and bondage simply because of skin color. For many black people, including myself, nigger is the most pejorative word in the English language. Even when compared to racial slurs like kike, honkey, cracker, wet back, spic, jungle bunny, pod, tarbaby, and white trash, nigger is noted as the worst insult in the English language. The word nigger suggests that black people are second class citizens, ignorant and less than human.

...Derogatory Context from a Historical Perspective and Why Nigger Should Not Be Used

“Q: What do you call a nigger on a bike?
A: A thief.”

Q: How do you stop a nigger from going into your backyard?
A: Hang him in the front yard” (Kennedy 7-8).

Here we see nigger used in its most pejorative context, to dehumanize black people. Black people were so oppressed by the word that it made and still makes some of us sick at the echo of the two syllables that heave it into the air. Nigger was infused with power, hate and ignorance. For instance, in his book Kennedy recaptures some horrific moments created by the use of the word. These stories are based on facts: “One man recounted the following painful memory: ‘I stopped in Arkansas to get some gas and a sandwich.’ But when he asked the clerk for it, the clerk replied, ‘We don’t serve Niggers here’” (Kennedy 66). Here we see the historical root of the word reflected strongly. Another example can be seen in the retold story of the famous baseball player Hank Aaron. When Hank Aaron threatened to break white baseball player Babe Ruth’s home run record, letters began pouring in to Hank Aaron’s home, For instance, one person wrote: “Dear Nigger: I hope you don’t beat Babe Ruth’s record. How will I tell my kids a nigger did it?” Or “’Dear Nigger: You black animal. I hope you never live long enough to hit more runs than die great Babe Ruth’” (Kennedy 24-25).

Here white people used the word as a tool of oppression to label black people as less than human, as animals. Not only so but the word nigger usually generated stereotypes, The word suggests that black people are all thieves, lazy, worthless, and all second class citizens. In fact, Fredrick Douglas encountered the word when first learning to read; he was told, “learning would spoil the best nigger in the world” (Kennedy 13). Malcolm X was told as a youngster that he needed to be “realistic about being a nigger” in terms of his career goals (Kennedy) 8). So it is not a mystery that the word nigger has serious, implications in black history as a method of categorizing, stereotyping, insulting, and oppressing black people.

...The word is still a weapon of oppression today. For instance, an author of an article in USA Today says that the word was aimed at him in a derogatory way in response to a previous article that he had written. He said, “The same tired argument has been made by other niggers...” (Wickham). After using the word the man attempted to quickly make a distinction between black people and niggers in order to justify his statements by saying, “I’m not some racist that thinks all blacks are niggers. You’re black by birth, but you are a nigger by choice,” (Wickham). This article was written in February of 2002, and the context in which the word is being used clearly indicates a lack of respect by the user for the history of discrimination against blacks in America. At the same time, this proves that the word is still being used pejoratively. It also shows that the use of this word by blacks within their own community could never totally deflate it from its original intent and meaning. Here the person who uses the word pretends to be using attitude, which in turn brings Randall Kennedy’s idea of context into question. Can the word be used in a context that makes it allowable for all people? Clearly, the answer is no. The answer is no because the use of nigger across all races leaves blacks susceptible to its derogatory use and opens the prospect of their being deceived by someone who will quickly deny that this was his/her original intent. Then how will one ever know if the word is really being used racially or endearingly?

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RE: Editing History - 7/12/2012 5:58:03 AM   
JstAnotherSub


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I would have to guess that you have never been called white trash, hillbilly or cracker in a way that was meant to label you as less than human, and clearly was stated with hatred, clearly meaning to suggest that you are a second class citizen, ignorant, and less than human.

I am not taking up for the n word, I find it disgusting, whether used by someone in a derogatory tone, or used in a cartoon such as "Boondocks", or used by friends hanging out, who use it as a term of endearment.

But, that does not make the use of the words Luci mentioned any less offensive to those of us in the south, who have had them thrown at us, with just as much vitriol as the n word.


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RE: Editing History - 7/12/2012 6:17:44 AM   
DeviantlyD


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I'm not meaning to downplay the implications of any derogatory terms used to belittle another person, but you have to admit that none of those words have the same history that "the n word" has. I would hazard a guess that at one time, for a black person to hear those words from a white person, there would be cause to fear for one's safety and possibly even one's life. It's a word that, IMHO, carries a lot more negativity. Again, I'm not saying the words you mention are "okay" to use because they aren't when used in a denigrating fashion.

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RE: Editing History - 7/12/2012 6:23:23 AM   
JstAnotherSub


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I understand DD. As far as I know, the words I speak of are only used towards us folks in the south, and, I can not remember the last time I was called one, because the times, they are a changing.

But, that does not make them any less offensive to me, when I see them used by someone here on these boards, and, it does make me agree with Luci about it still being ok to throw some bigoted hate terms around, with no fear of being called on it.

I am also old enough to know that there is no way to make everyone happy, and I understand why the site chose to do what they did, but hey, blame RU! He asked!, and I answered-lol.


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RE: Editing History - 7/12/2012 6:41:05 AM   
LanaDeVille


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

I would have to guess that you have never been called white trash, hillbilly or cracker in a way that was meant to label you as less than human, and clearly was stated with hatred, clearly meaning to suggest that you are a second class citizen, ignorant, and less than human.

I am not taking up for the n word, I find it disgusting, whether used by someone in a derogatory tone, or used in a cartoon such as "Boondocks", or used by friends hanging out, who use it as a term of endearment.

But, that does not make the use of the words Luci mentioned any less offensive to those of us in the south, who have had them thrown at us, with just as much vitriol as the n word.



Then why do you think it's okay and "not racist" to refer to Obama as monkey? To be precise, I recall you stated that another poster's calling of Obama a "monkey" wasn't "real racism". That same word was used to dehumanize blacks just as frequently as the "n-word". Why is the "n-word" in any context crossing a line for you, but not the term "monkey" in reference to a black person? They come from the same exact place?

< Message edited by LanaDeVille -- 7/12/2012 6:42:30 AM >

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RE: Editing History - 7/12/2012 6:52:19 AM   
mnottertail


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But we are all decended from the great apes, my dear. 

I suppose the situation is akin to the great number of Jamaicans haughtily looking down upon Americans of colour because they were slaves and the Jamaicans were not. 

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RE: Editing History - 7/12/2012 7:02:30 AM   
JstAnotherSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LanaDeVille

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

I would have to guess that you have never been called white trash, hillbilly or cracker in a way that was meant to label you as less than human, and clearly was stated with hatred, clearly meaning to suggest that you are a second class citizen, ignorant, and less than human.

I am not taking up for the n word, I find it disgusting, whether used by someone in a derogatory tone, or used in a cartoon such as "Boondocks", or used by friends hanging out, who use it as a term of endearment.

But, that does not make the use of the words Luci mentioned any less offensive to those of us in the south, who have had them thrown at us, with just as much vitriol as the n word.



Then why do you think it's okay and "not racist" to refer to Obama as monkey? To be precise, I recall you stated that another poster's calling of Obama a "monkey" wasn't "real racism". That same word was used to dehumanize blacks just as frequently as the "n-word". Why is the "n-word" in any context crossing a line for you, but not the term "monkey" in reference to a black person? They come from the same exact place?

Because presidents have been called monkey before him, and I see that as political mudslinging.

It is that simple.



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RE: Editing History - 7/12/2012 1:39:46 PM   
LanaDeVille


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub


quote:

ORIGINAL: LanaDeVille

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

I would have to guess that you have never been called white trash, hillbilly or cracker in a way that was meant to label you as less than human, and clearly was stated with hatred, clearly meaning to suggest that you are a second class citizen, ignorant, and less than human.

I am not taking up for the n word, I find it disgusting, whether used by someone in a derogatory tone, or used in a cartoon such as "Boondocks", or used by friends hanging out, who use it as a term of endearment.

But, that does not make the use of the words Luci mentioned any less offensive to those of us in the south, who have had them thrown at us, with just as much vitriol as the n word.



Then why do you think it's okay and "not racist" to refer to Obama as monkey? To be precise, I recall you stated that another poster's calling of Obama a "monkey" wasn't "real racism". That same word was used to dehumanize blacks just as frequently as the "n-word". Why is the "n-word" in any context crossing a line for you, but not the term "monkey" in reference to a black person? They come from the same exact place?

Because presidents have been called monkey before him, and I see that as political mudslinging.

It is that simple.




Your argument would hold more water if there weren't images floating around everywhere with Obama's wife being depicted as a monkey too. George Bush's ears and verbal flukes made him susceptible to the monkey crack. Obama's ears add to that as well, but Michelle Obama doesn't have a set of ears on her, and you'd really have to scour to see Laura Bush depicted as a primate. Even his children aren't exempt: http://hinterlandgazette.com/2011/12/tea-party-darling-jules-manson-calls-assassination-president-obama-monkey-children.html

I think the worse example of editing history is disregarding the historical connotations of certain words.

You've claimed to take offense towards the racially-charged phrases you've listed. Knowing that, I would think you'd be willing to show more consideration for how other racially-charged words offend others, even if you don't take personal offense to them or see the big deal.

< Message edited by LanaDeVille -- 7/12/2012 1:41:46 PM >

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RE: Editing History - 7/12/2012 1:58:14 PM   
JstAnotherSub


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Lana, I have no idea how my having a different opinion about this than you somehow shows a lack of consideration on my part.

I do not think that any presidents children or family members should be brought in to the political mudslinging, for any reason at all, racist or not.

People who drag family in to it are idiots, period.

I am not telling you to not feel the outrage you feel about Obama being portrayed as a monkey. Feel it and own it. Rage against the machine. Do not let my feelings change one thing about how you act on your own feelings.

We disagree about this. It happens. That is all I can say. If this makes me ignorant or racist in your eyes, I can live with that. I can not type things I do not believe, just to make you think better of me.

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RE: Editing History - 7/12/2012 2:05:44 PM   
LanaDeVille


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

Lana, I have no idea how my having a different opinion about this than you somehow shows a lack of consideration on my part.

I do not think that any presidents children or family members should be brought in to the political mudslinging, for any reason at all, racist or not.

People who drag family in to it are idiots, period.

I am not telling you to not feel the outrage you feel about Obama being portrayed as a monkey. Feel it and own it. Rage against the machine. Do not let my feelings change one thing about how you act on your own feelings.

We disagree about this. It happens. That is all I can say. If this makes me ignorant or racist in your eyes, I can live with that. I can not type things I do not believe, just to make you think better of me.


Well, I can say that I don't think you're racist.

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RE: Editing History - 7/12/2012 2:27:30 PM   
TNDommeK


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I detest the word.

"Certain black people have learned to take the power away from its original meaning. Black people as a whole should stop allowing the word to have so much power and it will die on its own." ~quoted from a black male that wanted to express his views, that just so happen to be interested in what I was reading.

I think there can be disrespect in all races, but I think its the smarter people who choose to rise above it. But at the same time, I personally have the need to kick ass every time I see or hear some stupid ignorant racist shit. Not saying I can, as internet racism is kinda out of My reach,lol. And not saying violence solves anything, but at times it damn sure you feel better. Guess that's the southern in Me. :) *takes a sip of Lousianne sweet tea and crosses leg like a true Southern lady*

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