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RE: I'm Feeling Violent Again! - 6/22/2012 9:13:40 AM

LaTigresse

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Those children should only consider themselves fortunate they are not mine.

Good bye cell phone. Good bye Wii. Good bye PSP. Good bye a lot of things. There would be a nice listing on Craig'slist and the proceeds would be donated to this woman.

Their summer would also greatly sucketh. I would be investigating volunteer work for said child. A nice paper route that gets them up at 6am, proceeds donated. Some corn detassling, proceeds donated.

Etc.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Post #: 21

RE: I'm Feeling Violent Again! - 6/22/2012 12:11:33 PM

Winterapple

Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
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FR
The lady (her name is Karen) is a retired bus
driver, thirty years as a bus driver, I think.
She has been a monitor for three years, she's
sixty eight. I don't know if she's doing it
because she needs the money or she wanted
to stay active. Pays 15,000 a year. My feeling
is she needed the money.
I think the whole thing is sickening. When I
first heard about I wondered how the
parents would react. Are they going to make
excuses for their kids bad behaviour.
This morning on CBS This Morning they
showed one of the boys apologizing in
person to Karen and he didn't excuse
what his kid did.
She says she would like apologies from
the boys themselves but she isn't ready
to see them because it's to still to painful
or whatever.

My impression is the bus driver and most
of the students on the bus didn't know
what was happening.
She says some of the behaviour started
a few months ago. She didn't write the
boys up when things first started and she
didn't report this episode after it occurred.
I think she was wrong not to. This in no
way excuses what was done to her but I
think she was obligated to report the boys
behaviour. If they would be this abusive
with an adult what would they do to another
kid?
She might not have reported for the reason kids
often don't report bullying , they are to
humiliated and embarrassed to.
But I wonder if one reason she didn't
report it or get up and talk to the bus
driver was because she was afraid of
losing her job.
She in no way deserved what happened
to her but she may not be able to do the
job effectively. I hope she takes the money
and retires and has a peaceful life.
I think the school you should evoke the
boys bus riding privilege for a year.
Not just going to and from school but
for things like field trips unless a parent
accompanies them.
I think the parents should make the boys
apologize in person and ground them
for the summer including taking away
video games and tv and things of that
nature.
I'm glad the school has protocols in check
for handling bullying episodes and that
they called police.
I don't go along with the it's a part of
growing up thing. Kids have a right to
go to school and adults have a right to
go to work and not be harassed and threatened.
It's a basic human civil right.
Bullying has led to suicide and kids
dropping out of school. Bullies pick
on the vulnerable and it's not usually
a one on crime. There's usually a leader
of the pack but he has his lieutentants
around him. And how would a twelve
year old girl be able to fight four fourteen
year old boys? Or a boy who is small for
his age right back against larger boys?
Our society has made strides by becoming
aware of certain attitudes and behaviors.
School bullying is unacceptable and has
potentially tragic outcomes.

_____________________________

A thousand dreams within me softly burn.
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(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 22

RE: I'm Feeling Violent Again! - 6/22/2012 12:54:38 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

hhmm...I'm trying to think what kind of youtube vid I can make that will garner me a few thousands of dollars. Seems so easy these days...videotape harassment by kids, yourself crying about bullies, tell the world how you want a sex change. There are others but can't think of any more right now. lol

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Everything has changed

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Post #: 23

RE: I'm Feeling Violent Again! - 6/22/2012 1:12:31 PM

JstAnotherSub

Posts: 6174
Status: offline

I feel the need to take up for this woman in some way, perhaps because I work for a school system and know the challenges that are faced at that job daily.

This link clearly shows that the monitor had nothing to do with the money raising campaign or the taping and release of the film of the incident. I believe her comments show that she was so amazed at what was happening that she did not react as she maybe should have.

I am glad to see that the boys are apologizing, and I hope it is sincere. Time will tell about that.

I also hope that this will help bring changes to school districts all over. I won't bore yall with the things that I have seen over the past couple of decades regarding the discipline schools are allowed to actually make use of, but, suffice it to say that, in many cases, the kids KNOW that they are in no danger of getting in serious trouble for anything they do.

The district I work for uses the Olweus bullying prevention program, and training is required for every district employee. It has made a huge difference at the school I work at, and, slowly but surely is making a difference district wide.

I could keep typing forever on this subject, but I will stop now. I just hope folks will read the link on the story I included here, and others, if they feel the need to, before they judge this woman as having been incompetent or thinking badly of her because other took up her cause and raised money for her.

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Post #: 24

RE: I'm Feeling Violent Again! - 6/22/2012 1:29:54 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

I feel the need to take up for this woman in some way, perhaps because I work for a school system and know the challenges that are faced at that job daily.

This link clearly shows that the monitor had nothing to do with the money raising campaign or the taping and release of the film of the incident. I believe her comments show that she was so amazed at what was happening that she did not react as she maybe should have.

I am glad to see that the boys are apologizing, and I hope it is sincere. Time will tell about that.

I also hope that this will help bring changes to school districts all over. I won't bore yall with the things that I have seen over the past couple of decades regarding the discipline schools are allowed to actually make use of, but, suffice it to say that, in many cases, the kids KNOW that they are in no danger of getting in serious trouble for anything they do.

The district I work for uses the Olweus bullying prevention program, and training is required for every district employee. It has made a huge difference at the school I work at, and, slowly but surely is making a difference district wide.

I could keep typing forever on this subject, but I will stop now. I just hope folks will read the link on the story I included here, and others, if they feel the need to, before they judge this woman as having been incompetent or thinking badly of her because other took up her cause and raised money for her.

I totally get what you're saying. That is why I said in one of my post, something about what punishment would be allowed, verses something I would want to see. They just can't do what might have been done a couple decades ago. My grandmother was an amazing teacher and they had just started changing what teachers were allowed to do. She had her ways of getting around things and did what she wanted, but she also produced some very well taught children that would contact her when they were adults... some sending expensive gifts from across the world because she changed their life. She taught, loved and disciplined. She inspired many, including me to take what you had in life and make it better.

Today, a teacher cannot hug a child and hugs and love are a huge factor in raising, teaching and providing for children. There is a balance needed. They cannot discipline a child in many ways and sometimes these talking to them sessions just aren't getting through. No skin off their little noses isn't going to impress the majority of them.

I don't wish to discredit the monitor! I don't feel she was able to handle the situation and simply wasn't able to hear well or take charge. Why, I cannot say, but it did make me question whether she should be there doing that particular job with the guidelines as they are.

I don't think we should only be teaching the children about bullying, but teaching the parents that are basically distanced from the school experience of today. So that they can take a more active role, if they will. Personally, I believe that parents not doing so are negligent, but there seem to be many of them that are clueless, rushed and uninvolved and many of the parents of today... are hardly empathetic people or are so self focused on making it so to speak, that they are unavailable and read by children as something they may not be.

A computer message, text message or quick call are all some kids get in the course the week. I remember working all but fifteen minutes of the day my children were awake and only seeing my children for that time and quick phone calls, until I had a day off. It took some damn good parenting before that and during it... to get us through. Some are simply too tired. Maybe messages like this incident... need to be heard to remind those overwhelmed, uninvolved for whatever reason, etc. that somehow we need to do and be more to assure the better outcomes.

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Post #: 25

RE: I'm Feeling Violent Again! - 6/22/2012 3:55:27 PM

Karmastic

Posts: 1650
Joined: 4/5/2012
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline

agree with a bunch up above, and some, i don't.

first, she has and had no business moving from driver to monitor, period. she clearly can't handle the kids. nor was she trained properly, that if she did need help, to have the driver stop the bus and deal with the situation, which she should have swiftly dealt with anyway, on her own.

A quick "if you don't shut your nasty little mouths right now, I'm going to have the bus driver turn the bus around and take you back to school for your parents to pick up"

you just don't have that kinda job, and let people talk to you like that, and especially don't let them put their hands on your body. if someone did that to me, my hand would have reflexively smacked who or whatever had just touched me. my only hesitation would have been whether the touching was incidental or not, and in that case, being clear it wasn't, i would have been ready to strike (back).

it seems the boys decided to put on a show and record it, and this was their regular demeanor to this woman. it's sad, and great irony that the boys seemed to have recorded their own demise. i also lament how back in the good ole days, teachers, parents and school workers didn't put up with that shit, and there was more civility. but i don't miss getting my bare ass whipped with a belt or any of the other extreme shit those days also included.

i do feel sorry for her, and more power to her, she's parlayed (conscience or not) her professional victim-hood into at least a vacation and 15 minutes of fame. not that i begrudge her that, but this is all so wrong, on so many levels.

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Post #: 26

RE: I'm Feeling Violent Again! - 6/22/2012 6:06:51 PM

BlueEyedSubinDE

Posts: 56
Joined: 4/15/2006
Status: offline

Don't get me wrong, how this woman was treated was wrong, wrong wrong. Those precious little tots should not see the inside of a school bus for 3 or 4 life times.

However, it was HER JOB to make sure the precious little tots behaved themselves. I wonder how people would think of her and her lack of control if the boys behavior caused enough of a distraction that there was an accident? Would she still be getting thousands of dollars and a free vacation?

(in reply to Karmastic)

Post #: 27

RE: I'm Feeling Violent Again! - 6/22/2012 6:33:12 PM

Winterapple

Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline

FR
She had nothing to do with the recording and
releasing of the video she didn't know about it
til after it was up and people were viewing it.

The money raising came from an effort on friends
of hers to give her a vacation. She had nothing
to do with it and seems astonished that so
much money has poured in.
This is a woman who put in thirty years
driving a school bus for a modest salary
while raising kids of her own. She's also
had a tragedy in losing her son to suicide.
In the interviews I've seen she comes off
as a nice lady who has shown decency towards
her tormentors. I've seen no indication she's
milking what happened to her or playing
the victim,of course she doesn't have to
play the victim she was the victim.
The boys haven't apologized yet that I know
of but one of the fathers did go to her
home and apologize.
The boys addresses have been leaked and there
is concern I imagine about pictures of them
appearing in the press.
That the school had protocols in place to deal
with this is a good thing and hopefully schools
that don't will learn something from this.
As I said nothing excuses what happened to her.
But I do think she should have written the incident
and any others up. She's pointed out that
legally she couldn't smack the boys and has
indicated if she had given over to anger
she might have. She also might have thought
going to the driver might have distracted him.
I don't know if he could have pulled the bus
over or not but I'm sure there are rules about
putting kids out on the side of the road.
I also don't know if the driver was a he or
a she.
If she worked as a driver for thirty years I'm
sure she was good and competent at her job.
But as a teacher friend of mine says about
middle schoolers you have to get your bluff
in with them or they'll run you over.
You have to demonstrate from the get go you
mean business. Maybe she's to tenderhearted
to do the job. When she was a driver her
concentration was driving and she didn't
have to interact with the kids as much.
Driver and monitor are different skills sets
in a lot of ways.
Individually those boys would probably
never said those things to her. They felt
empowered by one another to go after
her as they did.
And the people all over the world who are
sending money are doing so freely.
I don't see anything wrong with her taking
it and retiring and going on a long vacation.

_____________________________

A thousand dreams within me softly burn.
Rimbaud

(in reply to Karmastic)

Post #: 28

RE: I'm Feeling Violent Again! - 6/22/2012 6:40:46 PM

Karmastic

Posts: 1650
Joined: 4/5/2012
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline

even though you FR'd , you seem to be addressing some things i said very directly. i agree with everything you said, which doesn't really disagree with anything i said. you did expand on things that i left implicit. and you added some background, thanks.

there is one thing though i will make clear, since the way you wrote your reply would suggest otherwise...i never suggested she planned to cash in on this in any way. again, still doesn't change that she plays the victim part well, and those lil fuckers knew it. she's got victim written all over her face. even during the TV interviews, she's still playing that up, although it's probably subconscious for her by now.

< Message edited by Karmastic -- 6/22/2012 6:42:11 PM >

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Post #: 29

RE: I'm Feeling Violent Again! - 6/22/2012 7:16:24 PM

Winterapple

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Joined: 8/19/2011
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I wasn't responding directly to you or anyone else in the thread really.
Honest. I was thinking of various things said in the thread
but also about things I've read about the story online,
seen on tv and conversations I've had offline.
I free associate when I post sometimes.
I'm not always the most linear of thinkers.

I think the boys saw her as a easy target.
It seems to have perhaps been one of those
you give an inch they take a mile situations.
When they got away with smaller stuff they
were emboldened to take it further.
She has a nice grandmotherly face and that
evoked sympathy from viewers who already
feel sympathy for what happened to her.
But, honestly, I haven't seen anything that
made me think she was milking it.

_____________________________

A thousand dreams within me softly burn.
Rimbaud

(in reply to Karmastic)

Post #: 30

RE: I'm Feeling Violent Again! - 6/22/2012 7:20:19 PM

JstAnotherSub

Posts: 6174
Status: offline

Amen Winterapple. Some of the boys and their parents have apologized now. I hope this brings changes to school districts all over the place. If nothing else, it will make it clear that there need to be clearer guidelines and better training in order to hopefully avoid something like this in the future.

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Post #: 31

RE: I'm Feeling Violent Again! - 6/22/2012 8:17:00 PM

TNDommeK

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Joined: 3/13/2010
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See this is why when I was growing up, our teachers whooped our asses for shit like this. Oh if they were My kids, I'd beat em. But I saw where this guy raised money fr her to go on a vacation. He was hoping for like 5 grand, he has 300k so far. Talk about faith in humanity.

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Post #: 32

RE: I'm Feeling Violent Again! - 6/22/2012 8:53:59 PM

Karmastic

Posts: 1650
Joined: 4/5/2012
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Winterapple

I wasn't responding directly to you or anyone else in the thread really.
Honest. I was thinking of various things said in the thread
but also about things I've read about the story online,
seen on tv and conversations I've had offline.
I free associate when I post sometimes.
I'm not always the most linear of thinkers.
I think the boys saw her as a easy target.
It seems to have perhaps been one of those
you give an inch they take a mile situations.
When they got away with smaller stuff they
were emboldened to take it further.
She has a nice grandmotherly face and that
evoked sympathy from viewers who already
feel sympathy for what happened to her.
But, honestly, I haven't seen anything that
made me think she was milking it.

yes, my first visceral reaction was to feel very sorry for her, and to be extremely empathetic to her, and all the things you say i agree with.

but i have to admit, a small part of me says that just like WIITWD, her comfort zone is "playing the victim", and as you postulated (and i agree), they took an inch and kept taking. but i think it's because she plays the victim.

let me make up a saying please -

bullies victimize victims. and they usually want to be best friends when you slam them (ah, i wish that worked online too).

the part about her not wanting to overreact and hit them is bullshit. she would have been within her rights and it would have been reasonable for her to get mad, and yell at the kids. if she cant get mad without being violent, then she sure as fuck shouldn't be handling kids!

sorry, i went off again!

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Post #: 33

RE: I'm Feeling Violent Again! - 6/22/2012 8:54:59 PM

Karmastic

Posts: 1650
Joined: 4/5/2012
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

See this is why when I was growing up, our teachers whooped our asses for shit like this. Oh if they were My kids, I'd beat em. But I saw where this guy raised money fr her to go on a vacation. He was hoping for like 5 grand, he has 300k so far. Talk about faith in humanity.

yeah, and faith in the wonder of the internet too :)

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If my experience level makes you feel superior, that is your problem, not mine.

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Post #: 34

RE: I'm Feeling Violent Again! - 6/22/2012 10:00:02 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

It's now at half a mill. I have a feeling we won't have to worry about her doing this job again or any other.

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Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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Post #: 35

RE: I'm Feeling Violent Again! - 6/22/2012 10:11:24 PM

Karmastic

Posts: 1650
Joined: 4/5/2012
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

It's now at half a mill. I have a feeling we won't have to worry about her doing this job again or any other.

thanks for the update, bless her lil karmastic soul.

_____________________________

[Awaiting Approval]

If my experience level makes you feel superior, that is your problem, not mine.

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Post #: 36

RE: I'm Feeling Violent Again! - 6/22/2012 10:38:13 PM

DeviantlyD

Posts: 4382
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic

yes, my first visceral reaction was to feel very sorry for her, and to be extremely empathetic to her, and all the things you say i agree with.

but i have to admit, a small part of me says that just like WIITWD, her comfort zone is "playing the victim", and as you postulated (and i agree), they took an inch and kept taking. but i think it's because she plays the victim.

let me make up a saying please -

bullies victimize victims. and they usually want to be best friends when you slam them (ah, i wish that worked online too).

the part about her not wanting to overreact and hit them is bullshit. she would have been within her rights and it would have been reasonable for her to get mad, and yell at the kids. if she cant get mad without being violent, then she sure as fuck shouldn't be handling kids!

sorry, i went off again!

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Post #: 37

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