RE: Hard limits?

RE: Hard limits? (Full Version)

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agirl -> RE: Hard limits? (6/8/2006 7:50:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catize Your post seems to propose that the dominant knows better than the submissive what it is that he/she needs. I maintain that many submissives, including myself, know themselves better than anyone else could. My hard limits are not frivolous or irrational; they are there for valid reasons. I am able to live a full and happy life without them. Things are replaceable; people are not. The entire reason I have my Master IS that he DOES understand what I need rather better than I do. I am an expert in what I WANT or what I'd LIKE......but I can't outdo him on what I need. What I know about myself goes hand in hand with what HE knows about me.......When someone's taken the time and interest to know you through and through, over a goodly amount of time, it makes sense to bear their perspective in mind. My Master DOES know me better than I know myself, he's made it his job to. agirl

catize -> RE: Hard limits? (6/8/2006 6:18:44 PM)
quote: No - I propose that a submissive should know and trust her dominant enough to know. I propose time, talk, experience, talk, time, experience, talk, and time versus the checklist mentality to address the issue of safety and limits. I would add that trust is a two-way street. I believe it is just as important for the dominant to trust the submissive to know.

pinkee -> RE: Hard limits? (6/8/2006 6:56:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BrattyBottomRN What exactly is a hard limit? Man I should just have a thread where I ask all my annoying questions lmao... A Hard Limit is something you would not consent to do, period. S'times, in a healthy D/s relationship, some of these Hard Limits soften or disappear, but generally not all of them. pinkee P.S. There are no stupid questions.

KnightofMists -> RE: Hard limits? (6/8/2006 8:36:20 PM)
The following is thoughts I shared in previous threads and I might as well repost them again since it has been awhile since I have shared them. I consider the whole aspect of limits from this view point: 1. The Boundary. These are limits that are imposed upon us by the reality of maintaining our own healthy well-being and not limits that are self-imposed or imposed by another (i.e. Master/Dominant). For example, the diabetic is not going to have that cup of sugar due to the obvious physical consequence it will have to their Healthy Well-being, or the girl that was violently raped might stay away from rape plays because of the intense emotional trauma and anxiety it causes that threatens their mental Well-being. It could also be that a person just can’t do certain types of suspension because physical permanent injuries or just because of the aging process itself. We all have these types of limits – no one is immune to this. However, the boundaries to our Well-being will be different from person to person. These boundaries will evolve but seldom will we ever over come there existence. Sometimes the damage physical/mental and even spiritual can be so extensive that it will preclude us from engaging in many activities. To engage in them can only mean to harm ourselves. But because we have these boundaries, doesn’t necessarily stop us from engaging in activities that violate our Boundaries to our Well-being….. Self-abuse is a problem I am sure we all see from time to time. 2. Limits. We do indeed impose limits upon ourselves and by others … the things we will not do because they are perceived to have no direct or indirect personal pleasure or gratification in doing them for us and/or our partner. We often hear individuals state they have no limits. There are lots of reasons that they state such a thing… sometimes it is just out of ignorance, sometimes it is because they have yet to try and discovery activities that provide no pleasure and gratification for them and/or their partner. Often thou they are individuals that do indeed have limits but their limits are in-line with that of their Master/Dominant and thus it is an illusion to think they have no limits. Many consider a slave to lack power to impose limits upon themselves. That only the Master imposes such limits. However, the Boundaries must always be watched for… they are not static… they will evolve. The slave does have limits… but they are boundaries to their well-being. The difference between the Moral Master/Dominant and the Immoral One is the adherence to these inherent boundaries of the slave/sub. In my Opinion, A person should not ever relieve themselves of the responsibility of protecting their personal well-being! 3. Challenges. Many use the term “soft limits”. I personally detest the term. I am a strong advocate – a limit is a limit is a limit! However, there are often times that we see activities that we have yet to try. Our opinion is uncertain, but yet we seek to try them. We can not consider them as either limits or boundaries, nor can we consider them as a pleasure or gratification to be enjoyed for our self and/or our partner. These unknowns, I consider as “challenges”. In fact, most of us when we come into the lifestyle can fill an entire list of challenges. Like any challenge, some we are ready to try immediately, some we must build upon before we make the attempt. Occasionally, we consider activities that are limits and choose to challenge them. When we choose to challenge an activity that is considered a limit, we must be communicate clearly the desire to test an activity. We may just reaffirm the activity as a limit or it may evolve into an activity of pleasure/gratification for yourself and our partner(s).

marieToo -> RE: Hard limits? (6/8/2006 9:03:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists The following is thoughts I shared in previous threads and I might as well repost them again since it has been awhile since I have shared them. I consider the whole aspect of limits from this view point: 1. The Boundary. These are limits that are imposed upon us by the reality of maintaining our own healthy well-being and not limits that are self-imposed or imposed by another (i.e. Master/Dominant). For example, the diabetic is not going to have that cup of sugar due to the obvious physical consequence it will have to their Healthy Well-being, or the girl that was violently raped might stay away from rape plays because of the intense emotional trauma and anxiety it causes that threatens their mental Well-being. It could also be that a person just can’t do certain types of suspension because physical permanent injuries or just because of the aging process itself. We all have these types of limits – no one is immune to this. However, the boundaries to our Well-being will be different from person to person. These boundaries will evolve but seldom will we ever over come there existence. Sometimes the damage physical/mental and even spiritual can be so extensive that it will preclude us from engaging in many activities. To engage in them can only mean to harm ourselves. But because we have these boundaries, doesn’t necessarily stop us from engaging in activities that violate our Boundaries to our Well-being….. Self-abuse is a problem I am sure we all see from time to time. 2. Limits. We do indeed impose limits upon ourselves and by others … the things we will not do because they are perceived to have no direct or indirect personal pleasure or gratification in doing them for us and/or our partner. We often hear individuals state they have no limits. There are lots of reasons that they state such a thing… sometimes it is just out of ignorance, sometimes it is because they have yet to try and discovery activities that provide no pleasure and gratification for them and/or their partner. Often thou they are individuals that do indeed have limits but their limits are in-line with that of their Master/Dominant and thus it is an illusion to think they have no limits. Many consider a slave to lack power to impose limits upon themselves. That only the Master imposes such limits. However, the Boundaries must always be watched for… they are not static… they will evolve. The slave does have limits… but they are boundaries to their well-being. The difference between the Moral Master/Dominant and the Immoral One is the adherence to these inherent boundaries of the slave/sub. In my Opinion, A person should not ever relieve themselves of the responsibility of protecting their personal well-being! 3. Challenges. Many use the term “soft limits”. I personally detest the term. I am a strong advocate – a limit is a limit is a limit! However, there are often times that we see activities that we have yet to try. Our opinion is uncertain, but yet we seek to try them. We can not consider them as either limits or boundaries, nor can we consider them as a pleasure or gratification to be enjoyed for our self and/or our partner. These unknowns, I consider as “challenges”. In fact, most of us when we come into the lifestyle can fill an entire list of challenges. Like any challenge, some we are ready to try immediately, some we must build upon before we make the attempt. Occasionally, we consider activities that are limits and choose to challenge them. When we choose to challenge an activity that is considered a limit, we must be communicate clearly the desire to test an activity. We may just reaffirm the activity as a limit or it may evolve into an activity of pleasure/gratification for yourself and our partner(s). KnightofMists: Is this to say that your girls have hard limits (or boundaries) and that you respect them?

michaelGA2 -> RE: Hard limits? (6/8/2006 9:14:59 PM)
a hard limit is a limit that's hard to explain to a Dominant and hard for a Dominant to except...LOL

Dustyn -> RE: Hard limits? (6/8/2006 11:11:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn It's a measure of your hotness on a date ... how long you can keep that lump in your date's pants, while he watches you eat a something smothered in ranch dressing. ROTFLMAO Damn, guess I've never met anyone that could give me a hard limit...

kyraofMists -> RE: Hard limits? (6/9/2006 4:51:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo KnightofMists: Is this to say that your girls have hard limits (or boundaries) and that you respect them? The short answer is, yes. However, boundaries are not set arbitrarily and are not there because alandra and I don't like to do something or are squicked by something. To violate a boundary is to harm our well-being either physically, mentally or emotionally, and he has no desire to cause harm to either of us. Boundaries are discovered over time. Some of them are obvious and others can only be learned through experience. That being said, other than things that cause physical harm, I cannot think of one thing that is direct interaction with him that has been set as a boundary for me. There are a couple of things that would be interactions with others that he has set as boundaries, but I can't think of anything with him. There are things he chooses not to do yet, but one day he will do them so they are not boundaries. Knight's kyra

ownedgirlie -> RE: Hard limits? (6/9/2006 7:03:53 AM)
This sounds similar to my situation, Kyra. As I understand it, you do not come to the table saying "I will not ever do such and such because I know it's over the top for me." Rather, Knight has all rights to you, yet exercises such rights with complete knowledge of you and what you can handle at any particular time. And it is his right to expand what you can handle as he deems appropriate...? With me, I have no "stated limits" to my Master. He will do what he wants to do with me. But he also knows when and how far to push, to get the response in me he is looking for. Pushing of boundaries is a slow process, and at times horribly difficult, but he determines what the boundaries are in the first place, how far to push them, and when.

TxBadMan -> RE: Hard limits? (6/9/2006 7:23:13 AM)
I have always looked at a hard limit as one that would permanantly harm another another; whether emotionally, mentally, or physically.

kyraofMists -> RE: Hard limits? (6/9/2006 5:14:39 PM)
That about sums it up, owned. We are still learning about each other and he hasn't discovered how far he can push me yet. I keep surprising him he says. One thing that he is learing to handle is when I break down and cry within a scene. I am a fighter and rarely cry at all. When I cry, something is seriously wrong. Each time I cry he takes things a little farther, pushes a little more. He wants to find the line between hurt and harm, without stepping over it. kyra

Sinergy -> RE: Hard limits? (6/9/2006 5:34:50 PM)
A hard limit is something you dont want to be talked out of. One for me is death play. Dont even ask. I can get you Dr. Kevorkian's number. This is why people who say they are "no limit slaves" amuse me. I suspect I could eventually find their limit if I had a long enough time or the interest to do so. A soft limit is something you dont mind or even want to be pushed. You can say yes, you can say no. You might have a fascination with anal sex and an aversion, and a desire to overcome the latter. Just me, etc. Sinergy

hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Hard limits? (6/9/2006 7:34:27 PM)
I actually split my list of "limits" into 3 seperate catagories : Hard Limits - don't ask me to do this twice, because after I've told you NO the first time, I'll walk away and leave the relationship upon it being brought up a second time. Things I will not do, period - not for love nor money, nor are there any circumstances which could potentially change my mind concerning these things. Soft Limits - More closely akin to Preferences - things I will do/that are negotiable, even if I don't particularly Like doing them. Situational Limits - those things which fascinate me, but you'll have to earn a LOT of my trust before I'll consider going there with YOU specifically. On the surface, it's something that I'd normally say "not a chance" about - but given sufficient time, understanding, etc that could change. These are NOT hard limits, they are not even Temporary hard limits for me - as they CAN change.

HayaSierra -> RE: Hard limits? (6/9/2006 7:47:09 PM)
Greetings, Boundaries to one's wellbeing I will respect -- for example one who has a fear of Heights I might get to get professional help for it if I REALLY felt like going that route or for their own benefit and growth. But I would never try to do such myself -- because where a person's health is concerned I do not joke. However, if someone says they don't like cats but are not allergic to them or deathly afraid of them, if I own them I will eventually expect them to treat my cats with upmost respect without screaming hard limit. When I say "no limits" I do exercise common sense -- and I count on people to take the time to learn to trust me before making a complete commitment. I also proceed slowly -- of course I won't ask you to overstep something you may be skeptical about the very first month we meet. Rather I will take it slow and work in progression to get you to a point to feel not only confident about it, but also where you will do such things willingly. Again, obviously this does not include things that are harmful or completely immoral nor things that I don't find an interest in persuing. (Children, animals, scat, permanent harm). But everything else will be open to me and my Authority in the lives of those I own after a good amount of time, and lots of baby steps.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Hard limits? (6/9/2006 9:18:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists That about sums it up, owned. We are still learning about each other and he hasn't discovered how far he can push me yet. I keep surprising him he says. One thing that he is learing to handle is when I break down and cry within a scene. I am a fighter and rarely cry at all. When I cry, something is seriously wrong. Each time I cry he takes things a little farther, pushes a little more. He wants to find the line between hurt and harm, without stepping over it. kyra Thank you, kyra. I believe I can relate. Knowing something is uncomfortable or distressing does not necessarily stop what is occuring, unless he believes it is over the top for me. He has stopped an activity before when he could read that the distress signals were beyond your basic "I'm really having a hard time with this" and ventured into the "My mind is about to crack" territory. Oddly enough (or not so oddly), the next time he instigates the same activity, we go farther than the last, each time farther until I can succeed at coping through it without issue.

BrattyBottomRN -> RE: Hard limits? (6/10/2006 4:21:23 AM)
Hey Irish, you're INDECENT now! WOO HOO! quote: ORIGINAL: irishbynature What I've disliked in the past is when you tell a Dom..."Yo, hard limit!!!!" Yet, they continue to attempt to explore it, question you on it...after explaining yourself to the 9th! I'm not moaning about Doms really, but...........once you say, "Hard Limit" that should be it for the time being at least....? Right? If I had to say "HARD LIMIT" via email, text, or phone more than once....I'd kick them to the curb! [;)] Smiles, Irish IBN

HisChatelaine -> RE: Hard limits? (12/16/2006 6:07:58 AM)
Aside from things that are definately harmful, like the example of sugar for a diabetic, I would say that a hard limit is something that will do one of two things: - cause me to lose repect for myself in doing it, - or cause me to loose repect for him, in requiring it be done ~A

Rover -> RE: Hard limits? (12/16/2006 6:29:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth A 'hard limit' is a list of activities and/or conditions that a dominant-submissive gives their facilitating submissive dominant. Merc, is this supposed to mean that you don't have hard limits of your own? And if you do, does that make you a "submissive-dominant" and beth a "dominant-submissive"? John

RedSavageSlave -> RE: Hard limits? (12/16/2006 7:05:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BrattyBottomRN What exactly is a hard limit? Different people use different logic in determining what is a hard limit. For me personally....it is anything that will cause physical, emotional, mental, or spiritual harm or trauma to me. Obviously to me a hard limit is NOT an "I dont wanna"

RedSavageSlave -> RE: Hard limits? (12/16/2006 7:07:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: michaelGA2 a hard limit is a limit that's hard to explain to a Dominant and hard for a Dominant to except...LOL Michael..you are such a nut~ I love it!

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