RE: Raise the Social Security cap to $250,000 (Full Version)

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LookieNoNookie -> RE: Raise the Social Security cap to $250,000 (5/24/2012 10:00:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

It's not done if we can't pass it. Start where we can, work from there.


Yeah but...if they want to solve this....if you earn income (of any kind)....you pay SSI....done.




Musicmystery -> RE: Raise the Social Security cap to $250,000 (5/24/2012 10:04:56 PM)

Yeah...but they don't want to solve this...half of them want to eliminate SS altogether.

One step at a time.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Raise the Social Security cap to $250,000 (5/25/2012 7:39:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
Why is there a cap?
If you earn income....you pay SSI.
Done.


There is a cap because there is a cap on the payout end. This is "insurance." I have less of an issue with SS than the other "welfare" programs because it is, essentially, self-funded. I pay in. I get out according to how much I paid in (relatively). What I really abhor, is when the SSI rates are manipulated for political purposes. The actuary says it will be solvent until 2037. Obama lowers the rates. There is wailing and gnashing of teeth over the plight of the future seniors when the actuary states that it will be solvent for less time now. WTF did people think was going to happen?!?!? Of course solvency is going to be shorter when you reduce the amount coming in. Damn!

I am a firm believer that, if we're going to have SSI, it needs to be inaccessible to the rest of the Federal Budget. I have little issue with raising the income cap. I have more, but not much more, issue with raising the rate. I have no issue with means testing, or increasing the stringency of means testing.

My biggest issue with SSI is that it was supposed to be a safety net, in case you weren't able to set enough aside. It is no longer the retirement safety net. It is the retirement plan. That is the nature of Man, though. If it's there, it will be taken. If it's there long enough, it becomes part of life. If it's there long enough, people will order their lives around it always being there and will come to rely on it.

Look at cigarette taxes. Politicians tax smokes and earmark that money for some purpose. Smoking reduces, reducing the revenue from that source. Revenues no longer cover the cost of that purpose. Cigarette taxes are raised, or money is diverted from elsewhere to cover what was supposed to be covered by the previous cigarette tax.

Toledo Public Schools has been in fiscal woes for the 2 decades I've been in the area. They have a ballot initiative set for November to raise property taxes to cover the budget. In the past month, it was found that revenues have increased beyond what was projected, and the future looks as if that increase is going to last.

So, they took the ballot initiative down because they no longer needed to raise the extra cash, right? No.

So, they reduced the amount of increase they were looking for on the ballot initiative because they no longer needed as much, right? No.

Instead, they decided to add programs that will use that money. So, they still need the extra cash for whatever it was for. And, when they find some, they spend it on something else. This happens over and over and over. When the previous Mayor of Toledo wanted something done, the money was "mysteriously found" in an overlooked budget line, or was taken from a different budget line. When something happened and not enough was budgeted, other budget lines weren't available to be raided. It was only when the Mayor was "for" the program or spending did budget lines blur. Anyone from around here won't be surprised that this guy was a Democrat.

What is really sad, is that I'd be shocked if a Republican Mayor wouldn't have done the same damn thing.




Musicmystery -> RE: Raise the Social Security cap to $250,000 (5/25/2012 10:58:12 AM)

quote:

Obama lowers the rates.


Obama and House Republicans lowered the rates.

But otherwise I agree.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Raise the Social Security cap to $250,000 (5/25/2012 1:58:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
quote:

Obama lowers the rates.

Obama and House Republicans lowered the rates.
But otherwise I agree.


Obama brought it to the table. It was his demand in the negotiations.




Musicmystery -> RE: Raise the Social Security cap to $250,000 (5/25/2012 2:05:49 PM)

What the fuck ever. The House always bows to his demands, I know.

[8|]




DesideriScuri -> RE: Raise the Social Security cap to $250,000 (5/25/2012 7:43:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
What the fuck ever. The House always bows to his demands, I know.


Did Obama bring that to the table or not? Yes, he did. Obama started that. The Republicans were pushing for extension of the Bush tax cuts and Obama, rather than just give in to their demands, pushed for extending unemployment funding and for reducing the SSI %. They worked together on it. Both sides got something they wanted. Both sides gave up things they didn't want.




erieangel -> RE: Raise the Social Security cap to $250,000 (5/25/2012 8:10:06 PM)

quote:

Did Obama bring that to the table or not?


Yes, Obama brought it to the table. And guess what, you are missing something in your story of what happened. The Republican House AND Obama BOTH wanted the lower rates to be paid for. The payroll tax deduction you and I and everybody else have enjoyed the past 2 years has been paid for through the general fund. Social security saw no cuts in the amount of money coming in because of those deductions, the decreases are because of the number of people unemployed who are not now contributing to social security.




SternSkipper -> RE: Raise the Social Security cap to $250,000 (5/25/2012 8:48:11 PM)

We should elect about 100 more Bernies around the country. In fact, one will be Speaking in Newburyport this sunday! Come on down massholes and here what a future without Scott Brown can be like.




SternSkipper -> RE: Raise the Social Security cap to $250,000 (5/25/2012 8:51:39 PM)

quote:

Did Obama bring that to the table or not? Yes, he did. Obama started that. The Republicans were pushing for extension of the Bush tax cuts and Obama, rather than just give in to their demands, pushed for extending unemployment funding and for reducing the SSI %. They worked together on it. Both sides got something they wanted. Both sides gave up things they didn't want.


So what?
Or are you under the impression just because an idea is left out of one round it's forever banned from the discussion.
I'm all for continuing to bring it back till the Republicans have to EAT IT.




LookieNoNookie -> RE: Raise the Social Security cap to $250,000 (5/25/2012 9:56:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Sander's proposed legislation is long overdue.

[image]http://www.reformpartyct.org/bernie_sanders_debt.jpg[/image]

[image]http://allhatnocattle.net/blog7/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Making-Social-Security-Solvent.jpg[/image]

[image]http://cdn.front.moveon.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/bernie26-400x.jpg[/image]


I've heard various comments about that "fact" that SSI is an insurance program....and I have to say that's correct...but....it's a social program, one we all agreed to to help our brethren.

Yeah...it ain't right that some benefit more than others....Medicare is the same...

These fucks that we all hired have raped the system....we're the problem because we allowed this but....we can stop this.

I'm not sure how yet but....we can.

What a fucked up gig.

The truth is...we allowed it and encouraged it because we all had our hand out.

It ain't "their" fault.

It's ours.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Raise the Social Security cap to $250,000 (5/27/2012 8:46:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel
quote:

Did Obama bring that to the table or not?

Yes, Obama brought it to the table. And guess what, you are missing something in your story of what happened. The Republican House AND Obama BOTH wanted the lower rates to be paid for. The payroll tax deduction you and I and everybody else have enjoyed the past 2 years has been paid for through the general fund. Social security saw no cuts in the amount of money coming in because of those deductions, the decreases are because of the number of people unemployed who are not now contributing to social security.


I sure do hope that you are correct. The actuarial report was not too far from the tax cut, which is why I ascribed the cut to the reduction in solvency. Wasn't this passed while we were adding jobs every month?




Musicmystery -> RE: Raise the Social Security cap to $250,000 (5/27/2012 9:23:36 PM)

She is. The "cut" is just adding to the deficit.




SternSkipper -> RE: Raise the Social Security cap to $250,000 (5/27/2012 11:23:42 PM)

quote:

Wasn't this passed while we were adding jobs every month?


Ask Curt Schilling[:D]




Raiikun -> RE: Raise the Social Security cap to $250,000 (5/28/2012 2:01:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Yeah...but they don't want to solve this...half of them want to eliminate SS altogether.

One step at a time.


Personally I don't think it should be eliminated. One should be allowed to opt out though.




Musicmystery -> RE: Raise the Social Security cap to $250,000 (5/28/2012 7:00:20 AM)

Not some, but most Americans have insufficient retirement funds; the norm is negative savings.

SS solved a long-standing problem, and continues to be necessary.




Real0ne -> RE: Raise the Social Security cap to $250,000 (5/28/2012 7:14:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

The reason for doing more has nothing to do with SS -- it's to address the debt crisis caused by borrowing the SS funds but never having a means of paying it back.





ah yes gubafia sanctioned stealing.





Musicmystery -> RE: Raise the Social Security cap to $250,000 (5/28/2012 7:41:43 AM)

IN this case, yes. A reasonable short-term measure that became a long-term practice.




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