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Medical bill can leave stain on credit - 5/5/2012 7:24:55 AM   
Iamsemisweet


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When Ray White’s son was about 9 years old, he struck a tree branch while riding his bike. Within minutes, an ambulance whisked him off to the emergency room. The boy recovered, but many months and phone calls later, Mr. White’s insurance company still had not paid the $200 ambulance bill, even though the insurer had assured him it was covered. He finally decided it was easier to pay it himself.

But by then, it was already too late. Unbeknown to Mr. White, the debt had been reported to the credit bureaus. It was only when he and his wife went to refinance the $240,000 mortgage on their home in Lewisville, Tex., last month — nearly six years after the accident — that he learned the bill had shaved about 100 points from his credit score. Even with no other debts, a healthy income and otherwise pristine credit, the couple had to pay an extra $4,000 to secure a lower interest rate.

“It wasn’t like I ignored it,” said Mr. White, 47, an executive in Internet advertising. “It’s not like I’m a credit risk in any way, shape or form.”

Even people with good insurance coverage know how hard it can be to figure out how much they owe after a visit to the doctor or, even worse, the emergency room, which can generate multiple bills. But as patients become responsible for a growing share of costs — not just co-payments, but also deductibles and coinsurance — bill paying is becoming ever more complex.

On top of that, more medical providers are using collection services and turning to them more quickly than they have in the past, some experts say.

“It used to be that the mantra was ‘gentlemen and physicians rarely discuss matters of money,’ ” said Dr. Jeffrey Hausfeld, an otolaryngologist and plastic surgeon who now co-owns FMS Financial Solutions, a collection agency that specializes in medical debts. “But that has changed now.”

The reason is that the portion of the bill that patients owe has become a larger percentage of medical practices’ and hospitals’ revenue, said Mark Rieger, chief executive of National Healthcare Exchange Services, which offers software to help providers manage billing. “They are getting increases in their fee schedule amounts, but their revenue is declining because more of the responsibility is being shifted to patients,” he said.

Medical providers collected no more than 8 percent of their revenue from patients about 10 years ago, he said. Now, it is closer to 20 percent, or even 30 percent, in some markets.

Like Mr. White, people who fail to pay or respond to a medical collection agency in time — whether intentionally or not — may be surprised to learn, often much later, that it left a black mark on their credit record.

FICO, which produces one of the most popular credit scores used by lenders, said it viewed different types of collection agency accounts — medical-related or otherwise — as equally damaging. For someone with a spotless credit history, “it wouldn’t surprise me if their score dropped by 100 points or more,” said Frederic Huynh, a principal analytic scientist at FICO. And the blemish does not entirely disappear for seven years.

Consumer advocates argue that this is unfair. After all, medical debt is usually something people do not volunteer for, and billing errors and figuring out who owes what can often take months. According to the American Medical Association’s 2011 National Health Insurer Report Card, commercial health insurers processed 19.3 percent of claims erroneously in 2011, up from 17.3 percent in 2010.

In 2010, an estimated 9.2 million people aged 19 to 64 were contacted by a collection agency because of a billing mistake, according to research by the Commonwealth Fund, a nonprofit research group, while 30 million were contacted by a collection agency because of an unpaid medical bill.

“There is enormous room for errors, whether they are intentional or unintentional,” said Pat Palmer, founder of Medical Billing Advocates of America.

Rodney Anderson, a mortgage banker in Plano, Tex., said he started to notice in 2008 that more of his customers were being hurt by these medical delinquencies. So he kept notes on 5,100 loan applicants over 10 months. He found that 2,200 had at least one medical debt that lowered their credit score, and many of them were unaware of the damage.

“It’s the same thing over and over,” said Mr. Anderson, executive director of Supreme Lending. “You just don’t let $100 go to collections to ruin your credit.”

That prompted him to take the issue to Congress. He said he had spent $1.5 million of his own money on consultants and on lobbying to change the rules. And his efforts, along with those of consumer groups and others, have gotten lawmakers’ attention.

A version of the Medical Debt Responsibility Act, which would erase medical debts from credit reports within 45 days of being settled or paid, was approved by the House with bipartisan support in 2010. The bill was reintroduced in the Senate by Jeff Merkley, Democrat of Oregon, in March.

Interestingly, support for the bill comes from a varied group, including nearly 20 organizations — from consumer groups and the Mortgage Bankers Association to the American Medical Association. “The current system punishes consumers regardless of the underlying facts,” the supporters said in an April 16 letter to lawmakers.

Gerri Detweiler, a credit expert with Credit.com who supports the bill, said, “Consumers have more rights when it comes to disputing a $10 credit card charge than they do a $1,000 medical bill.” She was referring to the Fair Credit Billing Act, which gives consumers the right to dispute a credit card charge while withholding payment and protects the consumer’s credit report during the card issuer’s 30-day investigation period.

When a bill is sent to collections, Ms. Detweiler said, there is nothing specifically in the law to stop it from being immediately reported. Ultimately, it is up to the medical provider to sign off when bills go to collections and when the collection agencies should report to the credit bureaus, according to ACA International, a collections trade group.

Still, critics of the bill say that reporting the collection information is important because it can predict consumers’ future payment behavior. The Consumer Data Industry Association, which represents the big credit bureaus, said that it had “deep concerns about deleting any type of accurate, predictive data” before the end of the seven-year period.

“Broadly speaking, a precedent of deleting adverse information once a delinquent debt is paid would seriously impinge on the quality of data,” a spokesman said.

John Ulzheimer, president of consumer education at SmartCredit.com, also has concerns about deleting data because it does not distinguish between late payments that resulted from errors and those that were truly late.

“If paid or settled delinquencies were simply removed from credit reports as if they never happened, it would severely undermine the integrity of a credit report and the resultant credit score,” he said. “That is why it is called a history.”

Consumer advocates said they believed there should be some sort of mechanism to differentiate between true delinquencies and billing errors.  

The House’s version of the bill would erase only debts up to $2,500. Supporters of the bill said they thought that amount would help a wide swath of people because many errors are below that level. Still, the bill would not help everyone, particularly as Americans continue to spend an increasing share of their income on medical expenses. The tens of millions of uninsured and underinsured people are in a particularly hard spot.

“You can’t afford to buy a policy, you can’t afford to buy coverage through your job, and you end up in the E.R., and you have to pay for that visit, and even more you have to pay at non-negotiated prices,” said Sara Collins, a vice president at Commonwealth, referring to the fact that the uninsured often pay much more than the rates that insurers negotiate. “So if it becomes part of your credit history, it strikes me as really unfair.”

The Affordable Care Act, a law pushed by President Obama that overhauled the health care system, may help because more people would have insurance and many would have to pay no more than a certain percentage of their income on premiums and out-of-pocket costs, said Mark Rukavina, executive director of the Access Project, a nonprofit group that helps people with large medical debts.

Still, he said, “even with the expansion of coverage, the out-of-pocket costs will be challenging for many American families.” He added, “Those struggling to pay their share of the costs, and doing so, should not be penalized.”w

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
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RE: Medical bill can leave stain on credit - 5/5/2012 8:24:00 AM   
Dom4subssub4doms


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a debt is a debt and unpaid medical bills have a direct effect on my costs. With HCR there will be no reason not to have insurance. it isnt like someonne who can afforrd it makes a choice not to engage in commerce related to healthcare they make a choice to gamble and pass me the bill if they lose. Hopefuly with the standards the balking at covered expenses will no longer be aploy to avoid paying out. How the industry really works and why minimum standards and overhead limtis piss them off...This Cigna executives testimony s worth reading to understand things like not paying that ambulance are not accidents by Insurance companies. It also helps explain why single payer systems cost so much less. They dont hasve all the subterfuge and the massive expense of denial of care machines.
quote:

Testimony of Wendell Potter, Philadelphia, PA Before the U.S. Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation
June 24, 2009

Mr. Chairman, thank you for the opportunity to be here this afternoon. My name is Wendell Potter and for 20 years, I worked as a senior executive at health insurance companies, and I saw how they confuse their customers and dump the sick — all so they can satisfy their Wall Street investors.

I know from personal experience that members of Congress and the public have good reason to question the honesty and trustworthiness of the insurance industry. Insurers make promises they have no intention of keeping, they flout regulations designed to protect consumers, and they make it nearly impossible to understand — or even to obtain — information we need. As you hold hearings and discuss legislative proposals over the coming weeks, I encourage you to look very closely at the role for-profit insurance companies play in making our health care system both the most expensive and one of the most dysfunctional in the world. I hope you get a real sense of what life would be like for most of us if the kind of so-called reform the insurers are lobbying for is enacted.

When I left my job as head of corporate communications for one of the country's largest insurers, I did not intend to go public as a former insider. However, it recently became abundantly clear to me that the industry's charm offensive — which is the most visible part of duplicitous and well-financed PR and lobbying campaigns — may well shape reform in a way that benefits Wall Street far more than average Americans.

A few months after I joined the health insurer CIGNA Corp. in 1993, just as the last national health care reform debate was underway, the president of CIGNA's health care division was one of three industry executives who came here to assure members of Congress that they would help lawmakers pass meaningful reform. While they expressed concerns about some of President Clinton's proposals, they said they enthusiastically supported several specific goals.

Those goals included covering all Americans; eliminating underwriting practices like pre-existing condition exclusions and cherry-picking; the use of community rating; and the creation of a standard benefit plan. Had the industry followed through on its commitment to those goals, I wouldn't be here today.


Today we are hearing industry executives saying the same things and making the same assurances. This time, though, the industry is bigger, richer and stronger, and it has a much tighter grip on our health care system than ever before. In the 15 years since insurance companies killed the Clinton plan, the industry has consolidated to the point that it is now dominated by a cartel of large for-profit insurers.

The average family doesn't understand how Wall Street's dictates determine whether they will be offered coverage, whether they can keep it, and how much they'll be charged for it. But, in fact, Wall Street plays a powerful role. The top priority of for-profit companies is to drive up the value of their stock. Stocks fluctuate based on companies' quarterly reports, which are discussed every three months in conference calls with investors and analysts. On these calls, Wall Street investors and analysts look for two key figures: earnings per share and the medical-loss ratio, or medical "benefit ratio," as the industry now terms it. That is the ratio between what the company actually pays out in claims and what it has left over to cover sales, marketing, underwriting and other administrative expenses and, of course, profits.

To win the favor of powerful analysts, for-profit insurers must prove that they made more money during the previous quarter than a year earlier and that the portion of the premium going to medical costs is falling. Even very profitable companies can see sharp declines in stock prices moments after admitting they've failed to trim medical costs. I have seen an insurer's stock price fall 20 percent or more in a single day after executives disclosed that the company had to spend a slightly higher percentage of premiums on medical claims during the quarter than it did during a previous period. The smoking gun was the company's first-quarter medical loss ratio, which had increased from 77.9% to 79.4% a year later.

To help meet Wall Street's relentless profit expectations, insurers routinely dump policyholders who are less profitable or who get sick. Insurers have several ways to cull the sick from their rolls. One is policy rescission. They look carefully to see if a sick policyholder may have omitted a minor illness, a pre-existing condition, when applying for coverage, and then they use that as justification to cancel the policy, even if the enrollee has never missed a premium payment. Asked directly about this practice just last week in the House Energy and Commerce Committee, executives of three of the nation's largest health insurers refused to end the practice of cancelling policies for sick enrollees. Why? Because dumping a small number of enrollees can have a big effect on the bottom line. Ten percent of the population accounts for two-thirds of all health care spending. The Energy and Commerce Committee's investigation into three insurers found that they canceled the coverage of roughly 20,000 people in a five-year period, allowing the companies to avoid paying $300 million in claims.

They also dump small businesses whose employees' medical claims exceed what insurance underwriters expected. All it takes is one illness or accident among employees at a small business to prompt an insurance company to hike the next year's premiums so high that the employer has to cut benefits, shop for another carrier, or stop offering coverage altogether — leaving workers uninsured. The practice is known in the industry as "purging." The purging of less profitable accounts through intentionally unrealistic rate increases helps explain why the number of small businesses offering coverage to their employees has fallen from 61 percent to 38 percent since 1993, according to the National Small Business Association. Once an insurer purges a business, there are often no other viable choices in the health insurance market because of rampant industry consolidation.

An account purge so eye-popping that it caught the attention of reporters occurred in October 2006 when CIGNA notified the Entertainment Industry Group Insurance Trust that many of the Trust's members in California and New Jersey would have to pay more than some of them earned in a year if they wanted to continue their coverage. The rate increase CIGNA planned to implement, according to USA Today, would have meant that some family-plan premiums would exceed $44,000 a year. CIGNA gave the enrollees less than three months to pay the new premiums or go elsewhere.

Purging through pricing games is not limited to letting go of an isolated number of unprofitable accounts. It is endemic in the industry. For instance, between 1996 and 1999, Aetna initiated a series of company acquisitions and became the nation's largest health insurer with 21 million members. The company spent more than $20 million that it received in fees and premiums from customers to revamp its computer systems, enabling the company to "identify and dump unprofitable corporate accounts," as The Wall Street Journal reported in 2004. Armed with a stockpile of new information on policyholders, new management and a shift in strategy, in 2000, Aetna sharply raised premiums on less profitable accounts. Within a few years, Aetna lost 8 million covered lives due to strategic and other factors.

While strategically initiating these cost hikes, insurers have professed to be the victims of rising health costs while taking no responsibility for their share of America's health care affordability crisis. Yet, all the while, health-plan operating margins have increased as sick people are forced to scramble for insurance.

Unless required by state law, insurers often refuse to tell customers how much of their premiums are actually being paid out in claims. A Houston employer could not get that information until the Texas legislature passed a law a few years ago requiring insurers to disclose it. That Houston employer discovered that its insurer was demanding a 22 percent rate increase in 2006 even though it had paid out only 9 percent of the employer's premium dollars for care the year before.


It's little wonder that insurers try to hide information like that from its customers. Many people fall victim to these industry tactics, but the Houston employer might have known better — it was the Harris County Medical Society, the county doctors' association.

A study conducted last year by PricewaterhouseCoopers revealed just how successful the insurers' expense management and purging actions have been over the last decade in meeting Wall Street's expectations. The accounting firm found that the collective medical-loss ratios of the seven largest for-profit insurers fell from an average of 85.3 percent in 1998 to 81.6 percent in 2008. That translates into a difference of several billion dollars in favor of insurance company shareholders and executives and at the expense of health care providers and their patients.

There are many ways insurers keep their customers in the dark and purposely mislead them — especially now that insurers have started to aggressively market health plans that charge relatively low premiums for a new brand of policies that often offer only the illusion of comprehensive coverage.

An estimated 25 million Americans are now underinsured for two principle reasons. First, the high deductible plans many of them have been forced to accept — like I was forced to accept at CIGNA — require them to pay more out of their own pockets for medical care, whether they can afford it or not. The trend toward these high-deductible plans alarms many health care experts and state insurance commissioners. As California Lieutenant Governor John Garamendi told the Associated Press in 2005 when he was serving as the state's insurance commissioner, the movement toward consumer-driven coverage will eventually result in a "death spiral" for managed care plans. This will happen, he said, as consumer-driven plans "cherry-pick" the youngest, healthiest and richest customers while forcing managed care plans to charge more to cover the sickest patients. The result, he predicted, will be more uninsured people.

In selling consumer-driven plans, insurers often try to persuade employers to go "full replacement," which means forcing all of their employees out of their current plans and into a consumer-driven plan. At least two of the biggest insurers have done just that, to the dismay of many employees who would have preferred to stay in their HMOs and PPOs. Those options were abruptly taken away from them.

Secondly, the number of uninsured people has increased as more have fallen victim to deceptive marketing practices and bought what essentially is fake insurance. The industry is insistent on being able to retain so-called "benefit design flexibility" so they can continue to market these kinds of often worthless policies. The big insurers have spent millions acquiring companies that specialize in what they call "limited-benefit" plans. An example of such a plan is marketed by one of the big insurers under the name of Starbridge Select. Not only are the benefits extremely limited but the underwriting criteria established by the insurer essentially guarantee big profits. Pre-existing conditions are not covered during the first six months, and the employer must have an annual employee turnover rate of 70 percent or more, so most of the workers don't even stay on the payroll long enough to use their benefits. The average age of employees must not be higher than 40, and no more than 65 percent of the workforce can be female. Employers don't pay any of the premiums—the employees pay for everything. As Consumer Reports noted in May, many people who buy limited-benefit policies, which often provide little or no hospitalization, are misled by marketing materials and think they are buying more comprehensive care. In many cases it is not until they actually try to use the policies that they find out they will get little help from the insurer in paying the bills.

The lack of candor and transparency is not limited to sales and marketing. Notices that insurers are required to send to policyholders—those explanation-of-benefit documents that are supposed to explain how the insurance company calculated its payments to providers and how much is left for the policyholder to pay—are notoriously incomprehensible. Insurers know that policyholders are so baffled by those notices they usually just ignore them or throw them away. And that's exactly the point. If they were more understandable, more consumers might realize that they are being ripped off.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for beginning this conversation on transparency and for making this such a priority. S. 1050, your legislation to require insurance companies to be more honest and transparent in how they communicate with consumers, is essential. So, too, is S. 9 1278, the Consumers Choice Health Plan, which would create a strong public health insurance option as a benchmark in transparency and quality. Americans need and overwhelmingly support the option of obtaining coverage from a public plan. The industry and its backers are using fear tactics, as they did in 1994, to tar a transparent, publicly-accountable health care option as a "government-run system." But what we have today, Mr. Chairman, is a Wall Street-run system that has proven itself an untrustworthy partner to its customers, to the doctors and hospitals who deliver care, and to the state and federal governments that attempt to regulate

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
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RE: Medical bill can leave stain on credit - 5/5/2012 10:34:24 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

a debt is a debt and unpaid medical bills have a direct effect on my costs.


that is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO not true.

If you want to jump into the vipers den get into commercial.

These landmarck cases of commercial fraud that the courts have made decisions on recently barely scratch the gnats wingtip on the gnat sitting on the tip of the iceberg.

The bulk of the commercial aka monetary system is rooted in fraud.

If you start now and know how to choose the best sources you might begin to fathom how truly corrupt the whole thing is in a few years of hard study.

Its not a david and goliath problem its a gnat versus the empire state bld problem.



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(in reply to Dom4subssub4doms)
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RE: Medical bill can leave stain on credit - 5/5/2012 4:31:34 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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Uh, dom4subs, a couple things...

First, please don't quote entire articles or lists. You know what TL;DR means, right?

Second, we have already discussed most of the things you think you are introducing for the first time. The Wendell Potter thing is a good example. That's been quoted and linked to more than once, and there's been at least one thread specifically about his whistleblowing. Use the search function.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: Medical bill can leave stain on credit - 5/5/2012 5:39:52 PM   
Dom4subssub4doms


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First Potter is pertinent when talking about insuirance non ayment and he is mentioned in 10 threads. Second you assign motives that are your perception not my motivation for posting. I am sorry I irk you it isnt personal. I also agree I should of only included the bold parts. I wont take your post personal I assume you tell everyone who brings up old topics the same thing

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RE: Medical bill can leave stain on credit - 5/5/2012 5:59:21 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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The last time I voted, there was a question on the ballot asking if mentally disabled people should be allowed to vote. Why can't single-payer health care be voted on in that way? I think the people need to decide, not politicians whose votes are based on campaign bribes instead of what's good for the people.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
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RE: Medical bill can leave stain on credit - 5/5/2012 6:58:33 PM   
Dom4subssub4doms


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Joined: 5/3/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

The last time I voted, there was a question on the ballot asking if mentally disabled people should be allowed to vote. Why can't single-payer health care be voted on in that way? I think the people need to decide, not politicians whose votes are based on campaign bribes instead of what's good for the people.

the problem is wih unlimited money in campaigns and the power of media to sway votes are we really going to be deciding or is the media campaign the insurance companies run going to ala 1993

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RE: Medical bill can leave stain on credit - 5/5/2012 8:35:10 PM   
RemoteUser


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I don't mean to lead y'all off topic here, but since it seems to address the topic in a semi-direct manner:

How much of this nonsense could simply cease to exist if you implemented a social health care system similar to what Canada uses? And how much would such a shift in health care really impact you, beyond a possible tax hike (which seems inevitable nowadays anyhow)?


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RE: Medical bill can leave stain on credit - 5/6/2012 5:35:28 AM   
Dom4subssub4doms


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Joined: 5/3/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

I don't mean to lead y'all off topic here, but since it seems to address the topic in a semi-direct manner:

How much of this nonsense could simply cease to exist if you implemented a social health care system similar to what Canada uses? And how much would such a shift in health care really impact you, beyond a possible tax hike (which seems inevitable nowadays anyhow)?



It;s actually a cost reduction the taxes would beless than the insurance

(in reply to RemoteUser)
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