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More monkey business - 5/4/2012 6:42:32 PM

Duskypearls

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regarding fairplay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aAFQ5kUHPkY

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RE: More monkey business - 5/4/2012 7:39:05 PM

Karmastic

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hahahah, great vid, thanks Duskypearls.

the first segment surprised me!!!

in the second segment, the narrator assumed the monkey was refusing the cracker "as a matter of principle". that was total anthropomorphizing! for all we know (and it's more likely), the monkey kept returning the cracker and repeatedly placing the white chip back in the human's hand because the monkey was simply repeating the communication; it's either not smart enough to know that the same act will not return a different response, or has learned it might sometimes.

how many times have we tried to speak to someone in their own (foreign) language without rudimentary skills, and sat there repeating the same message over and over again, maybe louder or slightly different each time, hoping the communication would be received. the likely communication was "hey, i like grapes just like that other guy, and if i keep giving you the white chip, and refusing the cracker, maybe you will understand."

thanks again, fascinating.

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RE: More monkey business - 5/4/2012 9:48:35 PM

Duskypearls

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Glad you liked it K, but it was pretty clear to me it was at all not a case of anthropomorhizing. I read "animal" pretty darned well, and rarely fall prey to ascribing false or non-present traits or motives. I think, as humans, we really must get over ourselves, including the elitist mindset that we are above and beyond all others with whom we share this planet. How immature, limited, and ego-centric we are! All life forms all have needs and desires, likes and dislikes, preferences and favorites, and given the chance, will move, with forethought and action, towards those things we most desire, need and deserve. I think in our excessive, false, unearned, misguided, and inflated sense of mental, emotional, spiritual and moral superiority, we assume, much to our detriment and to all life around us, we corner the market on thoughts, feelings, needs and motives. What an imperial malady we suffer, and what damage we leave in our wake. I think we are a most dangerous bunch. It is no wonder to me we are the only creatures on earth unable to be, and keep, in balance, and not be at odds with, or a threat to, all else around us.

The disappointed Capuchin was clearly able to see and smell the difference between the treats offered, and was willing to authentically, relentlessly show his displeasure in refusing that which was less than he desired and deserved, or what his brother got, in a most polite, controlled and repetitive manner until he acquired his prize. Bully for him!

< Message edited by Duskypearls -- 5/4/2012 9:54:55 PM >

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RE: More monkey business - 5/4/2012 10:27:23 PM

Karmastic

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re your first paragraph, sans us disagreeing on anthropomorhizing. yes, well put. not sure why that needed to be said, as i agree wholeheartedly. sorry if i gave you impression otherwise

re your second paragraph and anthropomorhizing - i agree the animal discerned all that. but i disagree that characterizing it "as a matter of principle" isn't anthropomorhizing. to me, respectfully, saying it's a matter of principle is an absurd jump or assumption.

that's not to say the animal can't refuse on principle, but again, that's thinking and speaking in human terms. that's why i went for what i thought was the occam's razor (easiest) answer - it's simply repeating a communication until it's heard and responded to in the way s/he wants it - i.e., my description above. also, i didn't see displeasure as much as consternation - waiting for something s/he wants.

ps - i defer to any expertise you may have in the field. this is simply my opinions based on my own viewing. i.e., i'm certainly not anywhere close to being any kind of animal expert.

< Message edited by Karmastic -- 5/4/2012 10:31:32 PM >

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