RE: My Foray Into Conservative Anglicanism (Full Version)

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GotSteel -> RE: My Foray Into Conservative Anglicanism (5/7/2012 1:27:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
I'm not quite sure why you'd go to a forum where you know you don't fit, you disagree with completely and have nothing to offer except negativity.

To be honest, I belong to a church and we have a christian forum for those who wish to participate in discussions and/or bring up topics dealing with our church. We like positivity. We don't focus on negativity.


Is your forum also a soapbox for the promotion of bigotry? Because that is what we are talking about in this thread and in my opinion there really is something to the idea that all that is needed for the forces of evil to succeed is for enough good men to remain silent.





fucktoyprincess -> RE: My Foray Into Conservative Anglicanism (5/7/2012 1:35:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

There may be another way of looking at blogs/forums like the one in the OP.

The amount of moderation and the ruthless policing and suppression of dissent can be seen as pretty direct indicators of the levels of insecurities and doubts the 'faithful' may feel about their belief system. (This observation applies across the board, it's not aimed at any belief system in particular.)

Best not to tell them though .... it's one guaranteed way of getting banned! [:D]


Interestingly, in my own observations of people who I know, it is those who have doubts about their belief system (whatever their believes might be) who are more willing to engage in introspection, self-questioning and dialogue. I find the one who are much more difficult to deal with the ones who are dogmatic about their beliefs because they feel so assured that they are in the right - a kind of "leap of faith" approach - where they do not question their faith at all, and firmly believe that others are wrong, even when faced with evidence of the contrary. In my experience, it is the ones who seem to lack the insecurities and doubts who seem most dangerous to me. I would place most fundamentalists (of whatever stripe), in that category.

I think we are pretty much talking about the same people. The fundamentalists/people who are dogmatic about their own belief systems are the ones who, in my experience, tend to moderate and police dissent on forums and websites. They're in denial about their own doubts and they way they resolve those doubts is eliminate any evidence that brings those doubts to the foreground.

Those people who are relaxed and confident about their belief systems, those who are willing to admit the possibility that they might be wrong don't feel the need to censor things


Oops, sorry. Looks like I misinterpreted your first post. Thanks for clarifying. Yes, agreed, the relaxed folks definitely feel less need to censor. [:)]




littlewonder -> RE: My Foray Into Conservative Anglicanism (5/7/2012 5:36:03 PM)

I guess it would depend on what you consider bigotry. Yeah we talk about the commandments and ways to live that were set down by God for man to follow. You may disagree with a few. Some would see what we believe as bigotry. For many it would be seen as simply staying true to their faith.




GotSteel -> RE: My Foray Into Conservative Anglicanism (5/7/2012 7:49:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
I guess it would depend on what you consider bigotry. Yeah we talk about the commandments and ways to live that were set down by God for man to follow. You may disagree with a few. Some would see what we believe as bigotry. For many it would be seen as simply staying true to their faith.


Does your church promote marriage inequality?




littlewonder -> RE: My Foray Into Conservative Anglicanism (5/7/2012 7:57:44 PM)

I'm not going to answer on here what my faith does and doesn't believe. I don't feel some kind of need to tell others unless they truly want to know more because they'd like to join us. Otherwise my faith is my own faith.




Kirata -> RE: My Foray Into Conservative Anglicanism (5/7/2012 8:51:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Is your forum also a soapbox for the promotion of bigotry? Because that is what we are talking about in this thread and in my opinion there really is something to the idea that all that is needed for the forces of evil to succeed is for enough good men to remain silent.

Noble, but I think overwrought. Another self-appointed dispenser of wisdom talking like an idiot merits such righteous indignation? And you're invoking "evil"? Isn't that skirting close to the edge of faith stuff? How about we all call the guy an asshole, and then move on. There really are more serious things going on in the world than the ravings of every idiot du jour.

K.




tweakabelle -> RE: My Foray Into Conservative Anglicanism (5/7/2012 10:48:28 PM)

quote:

There really are more serious things going on in the world than the ravings of every idiot du jour.


It could be an idea to fully think through the implications of the above statement.




GotSteel -> RE: My Foray Into Conservative Anglicanism (5/8/2012 9:27:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
I'm not going to answer on here what my faith does and doesn't believe. I don't feel some kind of need to tell others unless they truly want to know more because they'd like to join us. Otherwise my faith is my own faith.

Your the one who compared your church forum to a site that's used by bigots to promote the oppression of others, this of course raises the question: is the comparison valid?

Now don't get me wrong, when it comes to the sort of beliefs that we'd consider bigotry I prefer those who'll keep it in their pants to those who go around trying to fuck the rest of us but what's the point of flashing? If you don't want to talk about your church why did you talk about your church?




Kirata -> RE: My Foray Into Conservative Anglicanism (5/8/2012 9:54:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Your the one who compared your church forum to a site that's used by bigots to promote the oppression of others...

No, that's you doing that. Just you. What she compared was her forum's position vis à vis an attitude of negativity toward its members' beliefs. CM enforces the same policy with regard to posts commenting on its members' kinks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Now don't get me wrong...

Don't worry, nobody will.

K.





littlewonder -> RE: My Foray Into Conservative Anglicanism (5/8/2012 11:23:38 AM)

heh...thanks Kirata for saving me the work.




GotSteel -> RE: My Foray Into Conservative Anglicanism (5/8/2012 12:23:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
quote:

There really are more serious things going on in the world than the ravings of every idiot du jour.

It could be an idea to fully think through the implications of the above statement.

I have him on hide for a reason.




Kirata -> RE: My Foray Into Conservative Anglicanism (5/8/2012 12:43:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I have him on hide for a reason.

I'm sure that enhances your enjoyment of the forum. [:D]

(to parapharse somebody who may or may not have a nose)

K.




dcnovice -> RE: My Foray Into Conservative Anglicanism (5/8/2012 5:36:03 PM)

quote:

I'm not going to answer on here what my faith does and doesn't believe. I don't feel some kind of need to tell others unless they truly want to know more because they'd like to join us. Otherwise my faith is my own faith.


Fair enough; I respect your privacy.

The tricky part, from my vantage point, is that not everyone's faith remains his or her own faith. Believers have at times pressed to codify their faith into policy and law. Today for example, voters in North Carolina appear poised to amend their constitution to forbid not only same-sex marriages (which are already illegal there) but domestic partnerships as well. On a brighter (to my eye, anyway) note, the antislavery and Civil Rights movements also had deep religious roots.

Sophia Lyon Fahs expresses things better than I could, in a poem that made its way into the Unitarian hymnal (which also includes a variety of readings):

"It Matters What We Believe"

Some beliefs are like walled gardens. They encourage exclusiveness, and the feeling of being especially privileged.

Other beliefs are expansive and lead the way into wider and deeper sympathies.

Some beliefs are divisive, separating the saved from the unsaved, friends from enemies.

Other beliefs are bonds in a world community, where sincere differences beautify the pattern.

Some beliefs are rigid, like the body of death, impotent in a changing world.

Other beliefs are pliable, like the young sapling, ever growing with the upward thrust of life.





littlewonder -> RE: My Foray Into Conservative Anglicanism (5/8/2012 6:13:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Your the one who compared your church forum to a site that's used by bigots to promote the oppression of others...

No, that's you doing that. Just you. What she compared was her forum's position vis à vis an attitude of negativity toward its members' beliefs. CM enforces the same policy with regard to posts commenting on its members' kinks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Now don't get me wrong...

Don't worry, nobody will.

K.




Ok since you have him on ignore, let me answer you with what Kirata said so I don't have to waste my time saying the exact same thing.

And let me put it in an easier way for you to understand...

If you went to someone's house and you found out that they were against same sex marriage or any other thing you don't feel matches your beliefs, do you harass them within their own home and then wait for the police to be called to come and take you away? Or do you simply leave their house without comment?

Same thing in the op's posting.

It's their "house" and they can do and say whatever they want within their own homes. If you don't agree, you can either stay and don't say a word, leave and don't say a word or stay and harass them but don't be surprised if you're "arrested" aka put on moderation.




dcnovice -> RE: My Foray Into Conservative Anglicanism (5/8/2012 6:37:31 PM)

quote:

If you went to someone's house and you found out that they were against same sex marriage or any other thing you don't feel matches your beliefs, do you harass them within their own home and then wait for the police to be called to come and take you away? Or do you simply leave their house without comment?


You don't seem to have any qualms about coming into my thread "home" and disagreeing with me. [:)]

But seriously, I'm not sure I'd equate posting on a public website (which invites comments) with harassing someone in her home. (This seems to be Overwrought Analogies Week here at CM.)

I also find it intriguing that you equate reasoned disagreement and questions with "negativity" and harassment.




dcnovice -> RE: My Foray Into Conservative Anglicanism (5/8/2012 7:14:07 PM)

Me again.

I think folks may be overlooking a key point from the OP:

quote:

But, actually, the moderation (which I accept the elves' right to impose, just as I do here) isn't my real focus. What actually set me typing was amazement, over the past month or so, at some of the things folks say in the name of religion.




GotSteel -> RE: My Foray Into Conservative Anglicanism (5/8/2012 10:34:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
But seriously, I'm not sure I'd equate posting on a public website (which invites comments) with harassing someone in her home. (This seems to be Overwrought Analogies Week here at CM.)


Yeah, the bait and switch analogies going on around here are ridiculous.




GotSteel -> RE: My Foray Into Conservative Anglicanism (5/8/2012 10:50:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
And let me put it in an easier way for you to understand...

If you went to someone's house and you found out that they were against same sex marriage or any other thing you don't feel matches your beliefs, do you harass them within their own home and then wait for the police to be called to come and take you away? Or do you simply leave their house without comment?

And let me put it in an easier way for you to understand...

If I came across your church murdering women, children and extra cute puppies with sledge hammers should I stand up for what's right or simply leave without comment?



Thing is neither one of these scenarios has much to do with what we were actually discussing. Funny how what's reasonable changes when we swap out some details for others that aren't remotely equivalent.

Hence my trying to determine, when you swapped the original topic out for that of your church forum, whether those two things are at all similar.




Kirata -> RE: My Foray Into Conservative Anglicanism (5/9/2012 12:10:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Yeah, the bait and switch analogies going on around here are ridiculous.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

If I came across your church murdering women, children and extra cute puppies with sledge hammers should I stand up for what's right or simply leave without comment?

Priceless.

K.





littlewonder -> RE: My Foray Into Conservative Anglicanism (5/9/2012 6:25:09 AM)

alrighty then.

I don't argue so I'll leave ya to your "home" thread.

Funny. LOL




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