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RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, n... - 4/27/2012 11:50:40 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekkie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

So much for Freedom of Speech. I was stationed at Fort Stewart Georgia during the Carter Administration. You should have heard what the Officers thought of Carter...strange non of them were dismissed, Major, Lt Col, and Col.



The rule now (don't know if it was the rule, then) is that military personnel have freedom of speech when they aren't representing the armed forces.

For example, they're allowed to march in political rallys. But not to do so in uniform. If they aren't in uniform, then they're a citizen. If they're in uniform, then it's like they're saying that the uniform endorses (whatever the rally is about).

Write a letter to the editor of your local newspaper, and sign it Joe Blow, and you're good.

Write the exact same letter, and sign it Sgt Joe Blow, USMC, and you can, technically, face court martial.

I've been told, by current military personnel, that these rules are part of UCMJ (technically, you can be court martialed for them), and that personnel are briefed on these rules, and what's allowed and what isn't.



Face Book is privately owned, not part of the Military. To quote General George Washington "When we asume the soldier, we never set aside the Citizen". This was on a poster the Pentagon had printed and distrubited during the American Bicentenial.

Any time you appear in uniform or otherwise confirm your status as part of the uniformed services you are not allowed to engage in anything remotely partisan and insulting the POTUS is certainly partisan.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, n... - 4/27/2012 11:52:24 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

So much for Freedom of Speech. I was stationed at Fort Stewart Georgia during the Carter Administration. You should have heard what the Officers thought of Carter...strange non of them were dismissed, Major, Lt Col, and Col.



I guess they were not stupid enough to post their hate on the internet.

Free Speech is Free Speech it is not restriced if you use Facebook.

where did I say it was?

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(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, n... - 4/27/2012 11:57:14 AM   
SoftBonds


Posts: 862
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

So much for Freedom of Speech. I was stationed at Fort Stewart Georgia during the Carter Administration. You should have heard what the Officers thought of Carter...strange non of them were dismissed, Major, Lt Col, and Col.



I guess they were not stupid enough to post their hate on the internet.

Free Speech is Free Speech it is not restriced if you use Facebook.


The point everyone else realizes is that this is not a free speech issue, this is a "bad-mouthing the boss," issue. You can go to a bar or someplace private and bad-mouth your boss, or his boss, or the CEO of the company all you want, but better hope the boss isn't in the next booth over. As for bad-mouthing the boss on facebook, well, tell you what, you call your boss a jackass and put his face on posters to mock him, say you are not going to do what he says, and then make sure your boss sees your facebook post, and tell me how it goes.
The military has clear rules on free speech, they bend over backwards to let the military say more about their bosses than any other organization. A military member can freely denounce the president, using their real name, but not using their rank/title/service affiliation, and get away with it. This assclown wanted to make sure everyone knew he was a military member who opposed his Commander in Chief, and would not salute the President if he met in uniform. Saluting a superior officer is part of the military tradition, part of this guy's JOB. If he doesn't do his job, why shouldn't he be fired.
Imagine telling your boss that you are not going to follow his instructions, and btw, you are going to tell everyone else who works for him what an !@#$% he is, you think you would keep your job? Freedom of speech, right?


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(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, n... - 4/27/2012 12:19:45 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		This veteran agrees with the "good riddance" sentiments expressed in this thread.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/14/opinion/obeidallah-marine-obama-facebook/index.html

..."As an Active Duty Marine I say 'Screw Obama' and I will not follow all orders from him ... has [sic] for saluting Obama as commander-in-chief ... I will not!"

...Members of the military are free to give their personal opinions about political candidates, but Stein's Facebook post begins: "As an Active Duty Marine I say 'Screw Obama...' " This clearly gives the appearance that Stein is speaking as a member of the Marine Corps.

(in reply to Fightdirecto)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, n... - 4/27/2012 12:24:50 PM   
TrekkieLP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBondsThe point everyone else realizes is that this is not a free speech issue, this is a "bad-mouthing the boss," issue.


Uh, no, I disagree.

The soldier in question has every right in the world to bad mouth his boss. On Facebook or anywhere else. Whether the boss sees it or not.

What he doesn't have, is the right to use his uniform, or his position in the Armed Forces, to give weight to his opinion.

(And, I suppose that, if his "I'm not gonna follow his orders" rises to a high enough level, then I suppose there's a point where he's inciting mutiny, or some such. But he wasn't close to that point.)

(in reply to SoftBonds)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, n... - 4/27/2012 12:37:12 PM   
SoftBonds


Posts: 862
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TrekkieLP


quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBondsThe point everyone else realizes is that this is not a free speech issue, this is a "bad-mouthing the boss," issue.


Uh, no, I disagree.

The soldier in question has every right in the world to bad mouth his boss. On Facebook or anywhere else. Whether the boss sees it or not.

What he doesn't have, is the right to use his uniform, or his position in the Armed Forces, to give weight to his opinion.

(And, I suppose that, if his "I'm not gonna follow his orders" rises to a high enough level, then I suppose there's a point where he's inciting mutiny, or some such. But he wasn't close to that point.)


Yes, as the rest of my post (or a past post, not sure which) points out, a member of the US armed forces has far more right to badmouth their boss than anyone else does...
However, I was trying to get someone who was saying "Free speech means say whatever you want and no one can take any actions against you," to realize that freedom of speech prohibits GOVERNMENT restrictions on speech. This is why employees of the government have more ability to badmouth the boss than other employees.


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(in reply to TrekkieLP)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, n... - 4/27/2012 12:38:32 PM   
Mupainurpleasure


Posts: 393
Joined: 4/12/2012
Status: offline 		I'm surprised the conversation continued after someone posted the code of conduct. One of the reeasons they deserve our respect is that buy signing up they surrender some of the freedoms we have in defense of us. I won't say good riddance though. I'd look for him as a republican congressional candidate. The birther doesn't surprise me read the polling huge numbers still believe he wasnt born here and believe he is a muslim. It's not racist though........ LOLOLOLd

One of the things I value about the right is the consistancy of their application of prrinciple on a as needed basis

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, n... - 4/27/2012 12:47:48 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TrekkieLP


quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBondsThe point everyone else realizes is that this is not a free speech issue, this is a "bad-mouthing the boss," issue.


Uh, no, I disagree.

The soldier in question has every right in the world to bad mouth his boss. On Facebook or anywhere else. Whether the boss sees it or not.

What he doesn't have, is the right to use his uniform, or his position in the Armed Forces, to give weight to his opinion.

(And, I suppose that, if his "I'm not gonna follow his orders" rises to a high enough level, then I suppose there's a point where he's inciting mutiny, or some such. But he wasn't close to that point.)



Not quite right... as Joe Blow, he has every right... the minute he mentions his name and rank, he loses that right as he is now representing the military.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TrekkieLP)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, n... - 4/27/2012 12:52:39 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		"I did not vote for the commander-in-chief" was the only acceptable "criticism" of PotUS, according to my pre-basic training lectures.

Forget 1st Amendment (which doesn't apply). Forget the fact that we are over-working the shit out of our military. When he identifies himself as a member of that military and then states that he will not render a salute to a ranking officer, he has already committed an actionable offense.

However, I will not discount that this man may have served very honorably in all other ways for the time he was in (if not, I assume they would have tacked those charges on, also). He made some poor choices and must suffer the consequences. He needs to put on his big boy underpants and go find a job while thanking whichever deity he worships that he's not cooling his heels in Levenworth.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 4/27/2012 12:57:16 PM >

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(in reply to Mupainurpleasure)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, n... - 4/27/2012 4:14:29 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

sheesh.... talk about


Cute :)

(Are you sure he was dead though?)

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, n... - 4/27/2012 4:24:12 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14449
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: TrekkieLP


quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBondsThe point everyone else realizes is that this is not a free speech issue, this is a "bad-mouthing the boss," issue.


Uh, no, I disagree.

The soldier in question has every right in the world to bad mouth his boss. On Facebook or anywhere else. Whether the boss sees it or not.

What he doesn't have, is the right to use his uniform, or his position in the Armed Forces, to give weight to his opinion.

(And, I suppose that, if his "I'm not gonna follow his orders" rises to a high enough level, then I suppose there's a point where he's inciting mutiny, or some such. But he wasn't close to that point.)



Not quite right... as Joe Blow, he has every right... the minute he mentions his name and rank, he loses that right as he is now representing the military.


Not really. If I had bad mouthed the company I worked for on Facebook or any other public venue and they found out.....they would have had the right to fire me.


_____________________________

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(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, n... - 4/27/2012 5:18:39 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Not really. If I had bad mouthed the company I worked for on Facebook or any other public venue and they found out.....they would have had the right to fire me.


4.1. General
4.1.1. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty may:
4.1.1.1. Register, vote, and express a personal opinion on political candidates and
issues, but not as a representative of the Armed Forces.

and

4.1.1.6. Write a letter to the editor of a newspaper expressing the member’s personal
views on public issues or political candidates, if such action is not part of an organized letterwriting campaign or a solicitation of votes for or against a political party or partisan political
cause or candidate. If the letter identifies the member as on active duty (or if the member is
otherwise reasonably identifiable as a member of the Armed Forces), the letter should clearly
state that the views expressed are those of the individual only and not those of the Department of
Defense (or Department of Homeland Security for members of the Coast Guard).

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/134410p.pdf

I am sure he did something outside of those rules.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, n... - 4/27/2012 5:39:42 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14449
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		I wasn't disagreeing about what he did. I was disagreeing about whether it would be okay for Joe Blow. In most cases civilian Joe Blow can be fired for bad mouthing their employer in a public venue.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, n... - 4/27/2012 5:54:46 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		One of the reason I don't have facebook is because my friends and brother are not discreet on FB and I don't want to be tarred with that brush.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Good riddance to bad rubbish - Marine thrown out, n... - 4/28/2012 4:34:24 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


I didn't know Trayvon Martin wore a top hat with his hoody...

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(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 55
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