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RE: Lying: What to do when it happens? - 4/13/2012 9:11:52 AM

graceadieu

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

I've been friends with two people I now consider pathological liars - "falsification entirely disproportionate to any discernible end in view, may be extensive and very complicated, and may manifest over a period of years or even a lifetime."

Since there was usually no discernible point to their lies, it took me a while to figure out what was going on, and end the friendships, especially with MJ, as I was only 16 when we met.

Oh yeah, one of my best friends when I was that age was like that. I think, for him, it was that he wanted to impress people and get attention, and made up all sorts of things to do so, telling different people different things at different times.... but people start to notice that shit. The occaisional "white lie" is one thing, but when you never know if something your friend/partner/whatever tells you is the truth or not? That's just much too far and crazy unhealthy.

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 21

RE: Lying: What to do when it happens? - 4/13/2012 11:07:03 AM

TNDommeK

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What a great post OP!

I feel this way about lying, if one lies, it's usually because one is afraid of the reaction one gets when telling the truth. Why be afraid, the truth will only be what it is, TRUTH. If the person can't accept the truth, go on about your day. They may always be mad or upset about it, but eventually they have to respect you for it.

As far as a My slave lying to Me, well, I had a slave who was a pathological liar. I mean over dumb shit she would lie to Me. I worked on this with her, day in and day out. And for a while the method of making her go back and admit the truth and tell Me why she lied, worked. But then she reverted back to her old ways...and like it was said earlier in this post...GOODBYE. I sent her back home. It might have been a fault of Mine that I couldn't get her to do right, I'll never know. But lying is just something I can't deal with.

As stated earlier, the lies about speeding and dinner was good etc, to Me, I wouldn't consider those harmful lies. I was referring the harmful in your relationship lies.

I think the movie Liar Liar with Jim Carrey is a great movie by the way.

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Post #: 22

RE: Lying: What to do when it happens? - 4/13/2012 1:39:53 PM

Karmastic

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Great topic!

Disclaimer - of course you have to look at the context. There are half truths, lies by omission, "white lies" (so I'm not PC, sue me), Etc.

I have to admit, I don't have this all down from experience because I'm not cognizant of really experiencing this in a trusted relationship. I'm painfully honest and straightforward myself, and seem to attract the same kinds of people. If my spidey sense is tingling that someone is lying to me, I'm apt to subconsciously (or not) direct questions at them that shed light on their lies. I suppose that tends to piss liars off, and push them away from me, because they sense I just won't put up with that shit, and they find better "targets". I.e., someone they intuitively sense will allow their lies, and from which they will receive whatever benefits they seek out by weaving a web of lies.

The reality of this is that I don't have a lot of people in my life, because I simply don't put up with a lot of the social shit that so many sheeoples think is okay (don't get me started on lists!). I would rather spend a quiet night at home then be around people I don't like or respect.

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 23

RE: Lying: What to do when it happens? - 4/13/2012 1:51:01 PM

supragenius

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once you call someone on a lie they usually feel guilty and you can leverage that guilt into getting them to do what you want them to do for at least a little while. so before you start pounding on tables and declaring moral supremacy think it over and be pracitcal first!

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RE: Lying: What to do when it happens? - 4/13/2012 2:29:07 PM

littlewonder

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For our relationship, any lie of any kind is prohibited. We work on complete honesty and transparency. If I said a small lie he would probably just punish me. If it was a large lie or I was continually lying I would no longer be in his life and that same goes if I felt he was doing the same thing.

For us lying of any kind means there is something more going on with us or one of us and our relationship does not live through me or him but on a we basis.

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Post #: 25

RE: Lying: What to do when it happens? - 4/13/2012 2:30:18 PM

Exidor

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> Though we have been conditioned to lie since birth,

...but it doesn't mean the conditioning takes. Most people who know me eventually learn not to ask questions they don't really want a true answer to.

Keeping track of lies is work, and I'm lazy.

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 26

RE: Lying: What to do when it happens? - 4/13/2012 3:37:32 PM

Karmastic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: supragenius

once you call someone on a lie they usually feel guilty and you can leverage that guilt into getting them to do what you want them to do for at least a little while. so before you start pounding on tables and declaring moral supremacy think it over and be pracitcal first!

sounds like you're interested in manipulating the liar to get what ever you want out of them. Be careful, since you sow what you reap, and those who play with fire get burned. /soapbox

(in reply to supragenius)

Post #: 27

RE: Lying: What to do when it happens? - 4/13/2012 3:54:15 PM

JeffBC

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~fast reply~
I think it's also important to remember that there's no clear agreement on what we mean when we say "lying". From other threads I've read in the past here, the spectrum goes from folks who think that unless they stood on their left foot, held their right hand in the air, and said, "I do solemnly swear" then it isn't their word and it doesn't count as lying. I take a more expansive view since I'm perfectly able to deceive people by telling nothing but the absolute truth. For me, lying is whenever I knowing deceive someone for any reason whatsoever. Using the truth to do it doesn't get me off the hook.

I think that more expansive definition is also why it's all situational to me. There's just too many reasons that I deceive people. Some of them pass ethical muster with me, others do not. Some, when I look back, I'm pleased with. Other's ... not so much. I'm perfectly willing to say here that I have lied... in the worst sense of that word... to Carol. I'm really glad she's also got a more situational view on it or we'd be divorced.

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Post #: 28

RE: Lying: What to do when it happens? - 4/13/2012 5:02:57 PM

sunshinemiss

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

What a great post OP!

I feel this way about lying, if one lies, it's usually because one is afraid of the reaction one gets when telling the truth. Why be afraid, the truth will only be what it is, TRUTH.

You answered your own question... it isn't safe to tell the truth in some instances.

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RE: Lying: What to do when it happens? - 4/13/2012 5:04:23 PM

sunshinemiss

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As an aside... this reminds me of something I once saw... I don't remember where.

Brutal honesty is not honest... it's just brutality dressed up.

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Post #: 30

RE: Lying: What to do when it happens? - 4/13/2012 5:39:09 PM

Kaliko

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I believe that often when a person lies it is a bit of a panic reaction. Fear. In other cases, a lie is to spare someone's feelings. We all do it and I try to calm myself if I learn I've been lied to and put myself into that person's shoes, attempting to understand the motive.

Calculated lies with the intent of true deception and selfish gain I am less understanding about but...LOL - I can't lie....I would still likely forgive.

I may be wrong, but I have a hard time believing that anyone wakes up in the morning determined to deceive others. (And if one does wake up in that manner, then I pity him more than anything. It must be awful to feel one has no choice but to strive for deception.) We all bungle things up now and then. It takes a lot...a lot..for me to reach the stage of not being able to forgive and move on. In fact, I don't think I have ever reached that point.

(in reply to Masticator)

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RE: Lying: What to do when it happens? - 4/13/2012 5:42:46 PM

JeffBC

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko
We all bungle things up now and then. It takes a lot...a lot..for me to reach the stage of not being able to forgive and move on. In fact, I don't think I have ever reached that point.

That would be about how Carol and I see it.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Kaliko)

Post #: 32

RE: Lying: What to do when it happens? - 4/13/2012 5:48:28 PM

Kaliko

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And, to add to that...holding onto angry or bitter feelings truly does weigh a person down. It feels good to let things go. Those words...they were just a moment in time. They are nothing to hold firm to in the present.

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 33

RE: Lying: What to do when it happens? - 4/13/2012 6:04:33 PM

SirLangsdorff

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

I've been friends with two people I now consider pathological liars...

There are many consequences of being a pathological liar. Due to lack of trust, most pathological liar's relationships and friendships fail

----------

After the fact, I also suspected MJ of Munchausen syndrome by proxy/ Fabricated or Induced Illness by Carers, as her kids always got sick when her boyfriend left her and well after he returned, drawn back in due to the medical emergency. The mysterious illnesses ended when he resigned himself to a life with her and last I heard, all were alive and well, if unhappy.

Thanks for the topic

I was thinking of my friend that I have now and I read this post. He fits in perfectly. We were "partnered" at one time and he's lied to me since day one and I accepted that behavior until one day 3 years ago when I had enough. We are still friends and roommates. He is trying, there is effort but it's not going awya overnight. Would I rather he do it to me, someone who knows it happens or would I rather it be to someone else that has no clue.

As far as personally, I do my very best not to lie. Silence is lying if I can't say what I feel, but it's better than hurting people I love if there's no relationship to begin with. I'm silent alot. But verbally I tried lying and people will find out eventually.
I'm not sure if this is D/s related, but everything I was taught boils down to trust. Do you trust them? Can it be rebuilt?
You may need to say something if it bothers you that much to ask in a forum. Whether it's the truth that comes out, That's up to them, but they can't answer if you don't ask.

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(in reply to kalikshama)

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RE: Lying: What to do when it happens? - 4/13/2012 6:19:08 PM

pissdoll

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i dated a liar.

he lied about big things. he lied about little things. he lied about things that seemed absurd to lie about.
(what reason is there to lie about going to the ZOO????)

ultimately it was a major cause of relationship breakdown.
it's hard to trust a habitual liar and it's impossible to be in a relationship without trust.

in retrospect the relationship lasted far longer than it should have, but when i had finally had enough....
it was OVER.

(in reply to Masticator)

Post #: 35

RE: Lying: What to do when it happens? - 4/13/2012 6:33:08 PM

rubic80

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People lie for many reasons, but in relationships I don’t think it’s to hurt the other person. I knew a liar well - he never meant to hurt anyone. He never opened up to people before so lying helped keep his wall thick - as protection. Ultimately he lied because he was insecure and afraid to be vulnerable. But not because he wanted to hurt anyone.

Although I do agree with pissdoll.

When someone has a thick wall…. It makes him hard to trust - even when he’s honest. It makes one question his motives – even when they were just.

(in reply to pissdoll)

Post #: 36

RE: Lying: What to do when it happens? - 4/13/2012 7:13:23 PM

JanahX

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for me there are two types of liars -

the first ones are ones that you figure out in about five to ten minutes if it takes even that long - and you laugh -

the second ones are the ones youve known for a long time/years and find out that theyve been lying to you since day one - and all you can say is "FUCKING FUCK !!!!"

< Message edited by JanahX -- 4/13/2012 7:59:44 PM >

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Post #: 37

RE: Lying: What to do when it happens? - 4/13/2012 7:49:00 PM

ChatteParfaitt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

It depends on why they lie. If you aren't someone it is safe to tell the truth to, then get accustomed to being lied to.
If I get screamed at because I left the milk on the counter, expect me to lie about it and replace it before you can notice it. Because too many people claim they want honesty and open communication but respond to it with anything but a calm acceptance. Shoot the messenger appears to be the default option for most people I know. And personally, I'm not volunteering to be shot.

But I told him this upfront, that for me to be honest, he has to back up his words. Which means he has to accept that he isn;t perfect, that he does make mistakes, and that sometimes he is going to need to sincerely apologize and make changes, just like me. Because I won't accept less than this in someone I'm turning control of myself over to. And if in fact he isn't capable of doing all those things he promised, then I would have no difficulty in lying until I was out of the relationship. Because my safety comes first, physical, mental and emotional.

So, OP, do you shoot the messenger or do you make it safe for them to tell you the truth?

Most excellent point.

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RE: Lying: What to do when it happens? - 4/13/2012 8:02:05 PM

punisher440

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I am human and therefore not perfect.But I do my very best not to lie,for the truth is far easier to remember than remembering what lie you told to try to cover the other lie.As far as my partner in a relationship lying to me,I expect honesty but realize at times someone might want to sugarcoat something to make it more pleasing to me.But allowing these small ones to slide sometimes opens the door to bigger ones.
As many others have stated on here,trust is very important in any relationship,but to me it is even more important in one where one partner has to completely be able to trust the other when they are bound and helpless.If it is a little tale about somerthing/someone [ie something a friend told you in confidence for example] that has nothing to do with our relationship I can live with that.But a lie told to deceive me that is told to cover up something that you know will cause a break down of trust is not acceptable.
I also know some are not quite as forth coming about telling their real names,location,job,etc when they first start talking but at first,I do not ask things like that.I try to learn more about their personality,who they are,a few of their hobbies,kinks and fetishes to see if we are at least some what compatable.So I over look if they tell a little lie about names and location.I do not however,put up with lies about the bigger things like telling me you enjoy[blank] then later admit that [blank] is a hard limit or telling me you are single with no kids and later admit you are married[but going to leave him] and have 3 kids.While having the 3 kids might not have been a deal breaker,lying to me about not having them AND being still married and I lose all trust and that is a deal breaker.

(in reply to Masticator)

Post #: 39

RE: Lying: What to do when it happens? - 4/13/2012 10:57:23 PM

RaspberryLemon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
For our relationship, any lie of any kind is prohibited. We work on complete honesty and transparency. If I said a small lie he would probably just punish me. If it was a large lie or I was continually lying I would no longer be in his life and that same goes if I felt he was doing the same thing.

For us lying of any kind means there is something more going on with us or one of us and our relationship does not live through me or him but on a we basis.

Your post really resonated with me (they often times do.) I can completely concur with "For us lying of any kind means there is something more going on with us or one of us and our relationship does not live through me or him but on a we basis." Very well said.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 40

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