RE: Petition: Label source of fur / ban use of fur from dogs and cats

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RE: Petition: Label source of fur / ban use of fur from... - 4/11/2012 2:25:46 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

I won't say you are wrong about cows. Personally I don't care for them anymore than I do goats. But I do know more than a few 4H kids that would say you are wrong about how smart they are in comparison to cats, dogs, and humans for that matter.

Smart wasn't a word I used.

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RE: Petition: Label source of fur / ban use of fur from... - 4/11/2012 2:35:13 PM

LunaM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: LunaM

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

PETA is a load of crap, in my opinion.
Ingrid Newkirk is a frickin piece of work. She does things in her protesting such as slashing red pain on fur coats to protest the use of fur, declaring captive animals be killed because since they cannot be released into the wild they shouldn't live as captive animals either, she believes that pit bulls should all be extinguished from existence because they are "untrustworthy and innately vicious dogs".

That's mostly beliefs/philosophies. Did any of their reporting/exposes turn out to be untrue?

I believe a few of them were proven to have rendered false numbers and they tried to shut down a legitimate breeding operation, claiming it was a puppy mill.

Not to mention the dogs they "Rescued" from a North Carolina animal shelter after assuring the director thay would have no problem getting them homes.
Then, they killed them in the back of the van and tossed them in a dumpster.

Seems they've done that a few times.

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RE: Petition: Label source of fur / ban use of fur from... - 4/11/2012 3:14:55 PM

Ishtarr

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PETA's kill numbers over a couple of years: http://www.petakillsanimals.com/proof/

It seems their call for no more Chineese cat and dog fur could easily be solved if they'd just use the fur of the thousands of cats and dogs they kill each year to satisfy the fur market in the USA.
At least that way the animals killed for the fur would live in human circumstances up unto the point PETA got their hands on them...

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RE: Petition: Label source of fur / ban use of fur from... - 4/11/2012 3:19:17 PM

Iamsemisweet

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While I think PETA is really a disgusting organization, I think it is only fair to point out that petakillsanimals is an organization consisting of food animal producers. While their numbers may well be accurate, I am a little leery about relying on information from an organization with their own agenda in the matter.

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RE: Petition: Label source of fur / ban use of fur from... - 4/11/2012 3:32:37 PM

MissImmortalPain

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quote:

intellectually closer to humans

Pardon me for not really wanting to bother quoting you. Insert that were I typed the word smart and my statement still stands.

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RE: Petition: Label source of fur / ban use of fur from... - 4/11/2012 9:10:04 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

quote:

intellectually closer to humans
Pardon me for not really wanting to bother quoting you. Insert that were I typed the word smart and my statement still stands.

I disagree. The cognitive structures of dogs and cats are closer to those of humans, as far as I can tell. Which also makes sense, as both are social carnivores, whereas cows are (less) social herbivores.

Granted, if you (or anyone else) can offer some evidence to suggest otherwise, I will defer to that, as my experience with cows is very limited (been on farms, never lived on one for more than a week) compared to my experience with cats and dogs. Have had some experience with wolves to suggest they're also closer to human cognitive structure.

Not trying to be contrary here. My experience just doesn't agree with the claim, and I thought it worthwhile to clarify what I'm claiming- a similarity in mental structure, not necessarily mental capabilities (though predators are usually more capable than herbivores, due to the need for a well developed anticipatory system based on empathy) and on what basis.

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RE: Petition: Label source of fur / ban use of fur from... - 4/12/2012 9:48:58 AM

MissImmortalPain

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I think you believe I was disagreeing with you when I really wasn't. I have actually seen you post very few things I would disagree with. Having said that...porpoises and chimpanzees are both more intellectually close to humans that dogs or cats. Their cognitive abilities actually say if we seek out animals to communicate with we should first seek out them. What I was wondering, as I often do, is how people do not realize that the human factor is what makes the difference. The 4H kids that I spoke of would say a cow can be just as close, as communicative as a cat because they have spent the time with the animal that it takes to make it close to them. I have seen the same happen with people that raise rabbits and snakes. We give credit to cats and dogs because they are common pets. Ones we are used to spending time with. But that does not mean they cannot be savage or that a tiger cannot be calm and loving. It also does not mean that either not could end up as food, or a coat.

< Message edited by MissImmortalPain -- 4/12/2012 9:50:33 AM >

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RE: Petition: Label source of fur / ban use of fur from... - 4/12/2012 9:53:41 AM

servantforuse

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PETA People Eating Tasty Animals

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RE: Petition: Label source of fur / ban use of fur from... - 4/12/2012 6:15:05 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

The 4H kids that I spoke of would say a cow can be just as close, as communicative as a cat because they have spent the time with the animal that it takes to make it close to them.

I was a cat person all my adult life...until we got the Husky. I think we did bond more due to him needing a lot more, dogs being so much more dependent than cats when there is no yard, and him needing more care from having been neglected before we got him.

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RE: Petition: Label source of fur / ban use of fur from... - 4/13/2012 3:58:39 AM

MercTech

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Sounds like typical PETA fudmongering to me.
1> cat and dog fur in no way can be masqueraded as anything but scruffy cheapo stuff. And, yes, I have seen dog and cat fur items sold in the markets in Hong Kong... usually as fur lined gloves for winter
2> dog and cat fur items are not from animals raised for fur but an attempt to utilize a waste product from food production. I don't think canine or domestic cat fur have ever been marketed in the U.S.

PETA is great at tugging the sentimentality to try and get your money but very poor at being truthful.

If it is physically possible to eat it, somewhere in the world it is on the menu. Deal with it. You don't have to serve it or patronize a restaurant that caters to that taste but don't try to claim some moral high ground because it isn't a species on the menu you are accustomed to.

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