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Just an aside about this forum - 3/22/2012 2:43:46 AM

GrandPoobah

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I hadn't really given it much thought until it just hit me. I just finished reading the thread "Testimony from a victim of Texas' new sonogram law" and clicked to come back to the forum index. Politics and Religion.

While they're both potentially subjects that can raise real disagreements and emotional opinions, I realized that, unfortunately, they're no longer two different subjects. Every day, at least within the US, they are merging more and more, until they've almost become indivisible. Given our Constitution, that's really sad, because the damage being done isn't going to go away anytime soon, and the potential backlash will be explosive.

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RE: Just an aside about this forum - 3/22/2012 3:00:04 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GrandPoobah

While they're both potentially subjects that can raise real disagreements and emotional opinions, I realized that, unfortunately, they're no longer two different subjects. Every day, at least within the US, they are merging more and more, until they've almost become indivisible. Given our Constitution, that's really sad, because the damage being done isn't going to go away anytime soon, and the potential backlash will be explosive.

I'm not so certain it's all that bad. Oh sure, it's bad right now. But I mean in the long run. The economic crisis and these endless wars are stirring up unease and causing people to grasp at answers, any answers, which typically means some kind of totalitarian political or religious ideology. But the weakness was there before this turmoil brought it to the surface. We just ignored it or denied it, because things were pretty good and it wasn't really in our face. Now it's on the surface, right out in the open, and we have no choice. That's a good thing. Because now, the needed corrections will have to be made. We can't ignore it or deny it anymore. It's ugly, and it has to go.

K.

(in reply to GrandPoobah)

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RE: Just an aside about this forum - 3/22/2012 5:24:11 AM

Moonhead

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Well, isn't that why the two have been put together in one forum in the first place?

(If it's any consolation, it isn't just you guys who have a problem with the two being mixed: they're pretty much inextricably linked in a fair chunk of the Arab world as well...)

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RE: Just an aside about this forum - 3/22/2012 6:34:40 AM

vincentML

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quote:

I'm not so certain it's all that bad. Oh sure, it's bad right now. But I mean in the long run. The economic crisis and these endless wars are stirring up unease and causing people to grasp at answers, any answers, which typically means some kind of totalitarian political or religious ideology

Do you mean like: "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Oh, who said that? Let me think . . . .

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RE: Just an aside about this forum - 3/22/2012 6:47:42 AM

Fightdirecto

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It is almost impossible to seperate politics and religion when

(a) some religous people wish to use politics and the law to force others to follow the dogmas of their religion, and

(b) some people who have no religion wish to use politics and the law to force others to follow the dogmas of their non-religion.

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RE: Just an aside about this forum - 3/22/2012 7:18:02 AM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: GrandPoobah

While they're both potentially subjects that can raise real disagreements and emotional opinions, I realized that, unfortunately, they're no longer two different subjects. Every day, at least within the US, they are merging more and more, until they've almost become indivisible. Given our Constitution, that's really sad, because the damage being done isn't going to go away anytime soon, and the potential backlash will be explosive.

I'm not so certain it's all that bad. Oh sure, it's bad right now. But I mean in the long run. The economic crisis and these endless wars are stirring up unease and causing people to grasp at answers, any answers, which typically means some kind of totalitarian political or religious ideology. But the weakness was there before this turmoil brought it to the surface. We just ignored it or denied it, because things were pretty good and it wasn't really in our face. Now it's on the surface, right out in the open, and we have no choice. That's a good thing. Because now, the needed corrections will have to be made. We can't ignore it or deny it anymore. It's ugly, and it has to go.

K.

I think this expresses my feelings also. I wrote something similar yesterday. A lot has been brewing under the surface, things that many of us may have thought were resolved. The unease after the financial crisis and lack of the quick recovery many assumed. The election of a black president. Both things that brought a lot of ugly to the surface.

I watch an interview with a controversial figure the other night. She said that she knew she was on the right track with her activism when she hit a nerve that created strong emotional reactions. That stuck with me. It reminds me of some email conversations Stella and I have had. Things are changing in some new and exciting ways. The gut reactions of people that fear those changes create a lot of nastiness, but I see it as socially cathartic.

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RE: Just an aside about this forum - 3/22/2012 10:35:53 PM

tweakabelle

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This general perspective has a lot to recommend it. It seems some kind of confrontation is unavoidable. Or rather, the cost of avoiding the ugliness is worse than the cost of confronting it.

How exactly do you guys see the 'ugliness' being confronted and defeated? These people are fanatics, they're not going to go away quietly, and even less inclined to compromise. Reason doesn't work against faith-based ideologies. And as one of them famously claimed, they've got more guns ......

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/22/2012 10:36:34 PM >

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RE: Just an aside about this forum - 3/22/2012 11:15:36 PM

TheHeretic

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I'm going to have to get back around to this thread.

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RE: Just an aside about this forum - 3/22/2012 11:29:47 PM

Owner59

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My recollection was that Eleven made the P&R section to keep us out of the civil section(s).

Spanking bush can get pretty ugly.......

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RE: Just an aside about this forum - 3/23/2012 1:10:56 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Do you mean like: "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion....

Oh, who said that? Let me think . . . .

No, I don't mean that at all. I mean what I said. Which, incidentally, would be a totally unfamiliar concept to the person you're quoting.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/23/2012 1:28:43 AM >

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