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Privacy v. Employment - 3/20/2012 1:27:54 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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SEATTLE (AP) — When Justin Bassett interviewed for a new job, he expected the usual questions about experience and references. So he was astonished when the interviewer asked for something else: his Facebook username and password. Bassett, a New York City statistician, had just finished answering a few character questions when the interviewer turned to her computer to search for his Facebook page. But she couldn't see his private profile. She turned back and asked him to hand over his login information.
Bassett refused and withdrew his application, saying he didn't want to work for a company that would seek such personal information. But as the job market steadily improves, other job candidates are confronting the same question from prospective employers, and some of them cannot afford to say no.
In their efforts to vet applicants, some companies and government agencies are going beyond merely glancing at a person's social networking profiles and instead asking to log in as the user to have a look around.
"It's akin to requiring someone's house keys," said Orin Kerr, a George Washington University law professor and former federal prosecutor who calls it "an egregious privacy violation."
Questions have been raised about the legality of the practice, which is also the focus of proposed legislation in Illinois and Maryland that would forbid public agencies from asking for access to social networks.
Since the rise of social networking, it has become common for managers to review publically available Facebook profiles, Twitter accounts and other sites to learn more about job candidates. But many users, especially on Facebook, have their profiles set to private, making them available only to selected people or certain networks. Companies that don't ask for passwords have taken other steps — such as asking applicants to friend human resource managers or to log in to a company computer during an interview. Once employed, some workers have been required to sign non-disparagement agreements that ban them from talking negatively about an employer on social media.
Asking for a candidate's password is more prevalent among public agencies, especially those seeking to fill law enforcement positions such as police officers or 911 dispatchers.
Back in 2010, Robert Collins was returning to his job as a security guard at the Maryland Department of Public Safety and Correctional Services after taking a leave following his mother's death. During a reinstatement interview, he was asked for his login and password, purportedly so the agency could check for any gang affiliations. He was stunned by the request but complied.
"I needed my job to feed my family. I had to," he recalled,
After the ACLU complained about the practice, the agency amended its policy, asking instead for job applicants to log in during interviews.
"To me, that's still invasive. I can appreciate the desire to learn more about the applicant, but it's still a violation of people's personal privacy," said Collins, whose case inspired Maryland's legislation.
Until last year, the city of Bozeman, Mont., had a long-standing policy of asking job applicants for passwords to their email addresses, social-networking websites and other online accounts.
And since 2006, the McLean County, Ill., sheriff's office has been one of several Illinois sheriff's departments that ask applicants to sign into social media sites to be screened.
Chief Deputy Rusty Thomas defended the practice, saying applicants have a right to refuse. But no one has ever done so. Thomas said that "speaks well of the people we have apply."
When asked what sort of material would jeopardize job prospects, Thomas said "it depends on the situation" but could include "inappropriate pictures or relationships with people who are underage, illegal behavior."
In Spotsylvania County, Va., the sheriff's department asks applicants to friend background investigators for jobs at the 911 dispatch center and for law enforcement positions.
"In the past, we've talked to friends and neighbors, but a lot of times we found that applicants interact more through social media sites than they do with real friends," said Capt. Mike Harvey. "Their virtual friends will know more about them than a person living 30 yards away from them."
Harvey said investigators look for any "derogatory" behavior that could damage the agency's reputation.
E. Chandlee Bryan, a career coach and co-author of the book "The Twitter Job Search Guide," said job seekers should always be aware of what's on their social media sites and assume someone is going to look at it.
Bryan said she is troubled by companies asking for logins, but she feels it's not a violation if an employer asks to see a Facebook profile through a friend request. And she's not troubled by non-disparagement agreements.
"I think that when you work for a company, they are essentially supporting you in exchange for your work. I think if you're dissatisfied, you should go to them and not on a social media site," she said.
More companies are also using third-party applications to scour Facebook profiles, Bryan said. One app called BeKnown can sometimes access personal profiles, short of wall messages, if a job seeker allows it.
Sears is one of the companies using apps. An applicant has the option of logging into the Sears job site through Facebook by allowing a third-party application to draw information from the profile, such as friend lists.
Sears Holdings Inc. spokeswoman Kim Freely said using a Facebook profile to apply allows Sears to be updated on the applicant's work history.
The company assumes "that people keep their social profiles updated to the minute, which allows us to consider them for other jobs in the future or for ones that they may not realize are available currently," she said.
Giving out Facebook login information violates the social network's terms of service. But those terms have no real legal weight, and experts say the legality of asking for such information remains murky.
The Department of Justice regards it as a federal crime to enter a social networking site in violation of the terms of service, but during recent congressional testimony, the agency said such violations would not be prosecuted.
But Lori Andrews, law professor at IIT Chicago-Kent College of Law specializing in Internet privacy, is concerned about the pressure placed on applicants, even if they voluntarily provide access to social sites.
"Volunteering is coercion if you need a job," Andrews said.
Neither Facebook nor Twitter responded to repeated requests for comment. In New York, Bassett considered himself lucky that he was able to turn down the consulting gig at a lobbying firm.
"I think asking for account login credentials is regressive," he said. "If you need to put food on the table for your three kids, you can't afford to stand up for your belief."

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RE: Privacy v. Employment - 3/20/2012 1:35:32 PM   
GreedyTop


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fuck that. while I understand the non-disparagement thing to a point, if you have your profile set to friends only I don't think it is reasonable to expect that you would not vent to friends with frustrations (god knows I've done it here and -in more detail - to close friends via email/social sites/etc). If I had any inkling that a prospective employer would ask for my log-in info, or to be friended so that they could access my posts, I would kill the account.

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RE: Privacy v. Employment - 3/20/2012 2:06:39 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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I have run into situations in litigation where the other side demands facebook passwords, but I have never heard of it happening in an employment situation until now.  I agree the non-disparagement thing is stupid, if the information is only available to a limited. circle.  Who doesn't bitch about their job with their friends?



_____________________________

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The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
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RE: Privacy v. Employment - 3/20/2012 2:12:49 PM   
GreedyTop


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I know, right??

While on my FB I have moaned about various things, including my job, my GM is on my friends list, so is the saless director. I vent, but yano what? They know me, and can RELATE LOL hey, they get the same shit, but more immediately than I do (I work the graveyard shift).

fuck this "gimme yer info" shit. What I do on my OFF WORK TIME is *my* biz. as long as it is not in any way affecting the business for whom I work, it ain't any of their damend business!!

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RE: Privacy v. Employment - 3/20/2012 2:21:34 PM   
tj444


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why dont they ask for applicants email addys and passwords to them too? That will be next, ya know..

Really tho, American laws regarding privacy are piss poor... the SSN should never have been allowed to be used as a common identifier and public info.. Big Brother (be it govt or Big Corp) has taken away your privacy long ago and people let them (well before 9/11, I might add).. now even if the sheeple got the guts to stop it (which they wont), the genie is out of the bottle and cant be put back in..

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RE: Privacy v. Employment - 3/20/2012 2:23:27 PM   
GreedyTop


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I think in the OP there were instances cited in which emails/etc WERE asked for.

(either that or I really need to go attempt a nap...damn that kalilk!!!)

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RE: Privacy v. Employment - 3/20/2012 2:37:50 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop
I think in the OP there were instances cited in which emails/etc WERE asked for.

(either that or I really need to go attempt a nap...damn that kalilk!!!)

I reread and yes, one city did ask that...

American corps do all sorts of weird things like give applicants psycological tests, do handwriting analysis, record interviews and stuff like that.. I cant wait for when they invent machines that can read your brain thoughts.. they are working on that..

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RE: Privacy v. Employment - 3/20/2012 2:44:00 PM   
GreedyTop


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hey, I'm used to the so-called psych profiling shit on apps and in interviews. No big deal. ya learn to say what they wannahear. But this shit..


no fucking way. like I said, I'll kill my acounts before I allow access. If I cannot vent to my friends and family without it being a black mark against me? sheesh. wtf. yes, this is a more "socially connected society" (I beg leave to differ about how that is defined), but EVERYONE needs a private venue to let off steam, whether it is face to face with folks, or via emails/posts/etc with friends and family that are not in the physically immediate area.


I'm sorry if that didnt come out right..I am off to nap and am typing while sleepy...

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RE: Privacy v. Employment - 3/20/2012 2:52:10 PM   
soul2share


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Nope, I'm not giving it up. I don't vent on FB or anyplace else because I was aware of these questions long before other companies asked....I'm in Law Enforcement, and have seen this popping up on more and more applications. MY FB page is more for me to see pics of the two family additions that i'd never see otherwise. (Carter will graduate before I get to see him the way it's going!)

I have an e-mail address that I've had for years. I have no idea what the FB e-mail addz is, I suppose I could find out if I cared, but I don't. Whlie there's nothing on my page that I have to hide, it's the principle of the thing. Like Greedy popinted out, what I do on my time is my business.

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RE: Privacy v. Employment - 3/20/2012 3:01:42 PM   
kalikshama


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This is the biggest crock of shit:

quote:

Sears is one of the companies using apps. An applicant has the option of logging into the Sears job site through Facebook by allowing a third-party application to draw information from the profile, such as friend lists.

Sears Holdings Inc. spokeswoman Kim Freely said using a Facebook profile to apply allows Sears to be updated on the applicant's work history. The company assumes "that people keep their social profiles updated to the minute, which allows us to consider them for other jobs in the future or for ones that they may not realize are available currently," she said.


The article is here, BTW (but is posted above in its entirety) http://www.philly.com/philly/business/143441946.html

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RE: Privacy v. Employment - 3/20/2012 3:07:52 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

I don't vent on FB or anyplace else because I was aware of these questions long before other companies asked...


I could be discreet on Facebook...but my friends and relatives are not. If asked by an employer, I will answer honestly that I do not have FB due to the long history of FB privacy issues.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chunkamui/2011/08/08/facebooks-privacy-issues-are-even-deeper-than-we-knew/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Facebook
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/igeneration/students-voice-privacy-concerns-with-facebook/15096


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RE: Privacy v. Employment - 3/20/2012 3:27:48 PM   
kitkat105


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I think it's getting a little ridiculous. I know we had a memo about 6 months ago come out saying we were not allowed to talk about people (fair enough) or work related matters on our Facebook. I don't even have my place of employment listed in my Facebook information so while some of my friends know where I work, I could be commenting about anywhere. I think this as a free speech issue is a very grey area.

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RE: Privacy v. Employment - 3/20/2012 3:32:55 PM   
Hillwilliam


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I don't have a facebook page. If I told em that, would they say I was lying and not hire me?

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RE: Privacy v. Employment - 3/20/2012 3:39:04 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
Sears Holdings Inc. spokeswoman Kim Freely said using a Facebook profile to apply allows Sears to be updated on the applicant's work history. The company assumes "that people keep their social profiles updated to the minute, which allows us to consider them for other jobs in the future or for ones that they may not realize are available currently," she said.

Dont ya just love the spin they try to put on their snooping,.. like its really for the applicant's/employee's benefit..

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RE: Privacy v. Employment - 3/20/2012 4:00:21 PM   
mynxkat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I don't have a facebook page. If I told em that, would they say I was lying and not hire me?


Ditto here, Hillwilliam. CollarMe is the closest thing to a social networking site that I'm a member of. No facebook, no twitter, no linkedin...

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RE: Privacy v. Employment - 3/20/2012 4:05:10 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

The company assumes "that people keep their social profiles updated to the minute, which allows us to consider them for other jobs in the future or for ones that they may not realize are available currently," she said.


then they assumed wrong about me. I never update my fb and use it only to check out new pics of the grandbabies and see what the rest of the family is up to. I guess from now on if I am asked about fb, I will just tell them I don't use social networking sites and leave it at that. Like others have said, it's none of their fragging business.

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RE: Privacy v. Employment - 3/20/2012 5:01:48 PM   
littlewonder


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I would just say I don't have one and if they asked for an email and password I would just give them one that I never use. What are they gonna find? spam mail. lol


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RE: Privacy v. Employment - 3/20/2012 5:25:56 PM   
RedMagic1


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semisweet, if you follow #privchat on Twitter, or look at for example this blog: http://www.pogowasright.org/

you will see this is a hot topic right now among experts. The Philippines are about to pass stricter privacy laws than the US. It is really effed up.

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RE: Privacy v. Employment - 3/20/2012 5:43:45 PM   
tj444


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If Americans just cower and give the employers what they ask for or lie and give them an old or unused email or lie and say they dont have a FB page, or twitter, etc etc.. then the US govt wont do a thing about privacy..

Why are people forced to lie? So if you lie and say you dont have a FB page or whatever.. can they then fire you when they find out you do have a FB page and lied? Isnt lying about that the same as lying on your job application or resume?

If people dont think its a big deal.. where does it ever end?


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RE: Privacy v. Employment - 3/20/2012 5:43:52 PM   
GrandPoobah


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The rather interesting part isn't originally mentioned. Suppose I agree to supply you with my login information for my email...or FB or anything else for that matter. Then something "appears" that shows it came from me but in fact didn't. What happens when I file suit against the employer, alleging that he/she/they created something using the private information they required me to provide. If I can show that I couldn't have posted it...i.e. I was at work, or somewhere else, or whatever...they could be deep trouble. This clearly crosses a line between looking at my past and invading my life/future. There's a big difference.

Also, it opens the door (obviously) to claims that they discriminate. Suppose I'm in a protected class, but the subject never came up on an application or interview. However, they will "discover it" if they have access to my private accounts. Then...mysteriously...I don't get the job. Lawsuit here we come...and they will have a devil of a time defending any information they discovered that way. The first time some employer gets sued and loses...and the news spreads all around through social media...all hell is going to break loose. Suppose, for example, that they look at your email account and discover you've received a "new mail" notification from CM? I'm thinking that might be a problem, and they could easily use the links in the mail to access your account here. Bad news for all concerned!

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