quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
That's not my experience at the uni. I could not give any actual numbers, I'm not taking a poll of fellow students, but based on various questions and commentary in class, I can assure you that young Republicans are not underrepresented.

To the issue of change in voting sentiments to more putatively conservative as some people age, it's true that some grow tired of all the thought process involved in understanding political issues and find it easier to just fall back on what they imagine to be clever and witty aphorisms, which the conservative parties are eager to put forth as substantive political discourse.

I did not go to uni in the US so I have no personal experience with that... As a young Albertan tho, my parents voted Conservative and there was that influence or pressure to also vote Conservative, so i can understand a certain number of young Americans voting republican cuz their parents did..

I do think that young people tend to have ideals that havent met reality, in that they did not have paychecks and see how much tax, ss, etc deductions they pay out, the state sales tax, fees here, extra govt charges there, etc etc.. until they add it all up and say, holy shit, I am paying half my income in tax! lol It wouldnt be so bad if all the money was used as it should be,.. but given govt waste, fraud, politicians being bought by big business, etc.. that too is part of the reality..

That said, I dont vote and have not since my 20s.. its up to other people to decide the govt they want since they are the ones that have to live here, I can vote with my feet and leave..

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
A lot of people become more conservative with age because the "liberal causes," become mainstream, and new causes appear. Someone who thinks Blacks are equal to rights was a liberal in 1960. Today, someone who believes otherwise is not just all but certain to be conservative, but will generally keep that belief to himself.
In 40 years, gays will be marrying in Oklahoma, and no one will believe how bad it was. At that point, the liberals will be out fighting for rights for some new group.

BTW, how much of government do you think is "waste," and which parts?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
A lot of people become more conservative with age because the "liberal causes," become mainstream, and new causes appear. Someone who thinks Blacks are equal to rights was a liberal in 1960. Today, someone who believes otherwise is not just all but certain to be conservative, but will generally keep that belief to himself.
In 40 years, gays will be marrying in Oklahoma, and no one will believe how bad it was. At that point, the liberals will be out fighting for rights for some new group.

BTW, how much of government do you think is "waste," and which parts?

That could be the reason some people become more conservative but thats not the way it was for me.. for me it happened within a few years in my very early 20s.. I was on my own right after my 17th birthday, going to school part time and working part time so maybe that made my conversion a little earlier than most.. I also became disillusioned by unions early but then i had a union govt job when i was 19, i bought my first house when i was 21.. but perhaps my being Canadian makes a difference too.. its a different society,.. its more live and let live so for the most part, equal rights havent been an issue (or much of one) there as here in the US.. afterall,.. where did black slaves go when they used the underground railroad?.. they came to Canada..

As far as govt waste... I cant give you a percentage as i have not analyzed all levels of govt in the US.. but when the city officials in a small city of Bell, CA give themselves wage increases to the point where the city manager is earning $800,000/yr (thats what, over twice what the US Prez earns?).. or when the govt is overcharged for goods and services cuz the contract was awarded to a company with connections.. like being charged $1000 for a toilet that would cost $70 at home depot, take any bill that Haliburton sent the govt.. grants to study stupid things.. google "government waste".. lots of examples of waste..

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
Well, where halliburton is concerned I agree it is waste. However, the toilet was considerably more than $1000. Of course, you have to know why...
It wasn't a toilet you could get at home depot, it was a toilet for the space shuttle. Now do you know what liquids do in zero G? They float around...
You see why the toilet was pricey? Course, we coulda used a home depot toilet, but when the liquids floated into a circuit board, well, the toilet NASA bought was a bargain.
Another one you hear a lot about was the $500 hammer. What folks don't tell you is that it wasn't a hammer like you would get a home depot either. It was used to loosen lugnuts by the Air Force. In an area filled with fuel fumes. Now if you are going to hit a nut with a hammer in fuel fumes, do you want to use a $500 titanium hammer, or a standard hammer that will strike sparks?
Think carefully, not only will it determine your future survival, but the safety of a lot of other Air Force mechanics and some very expensive planes...

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
BTW, according to surveys of Americans, 54% of government spending is waste. Now unless folks are saying the entire military is waste... I think folks have overblown it a bit...

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ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
Well, where halliburton is concerned I agree it is waste. However, the toilet was considerably more than $1000. Of course, you have to know why...
It wasn't a toilet you could get at home depot, it was a toilet for the space shuttle. Now do you know what liquids do in zero G? They float around...
You see why the toilet was pricey? Course, we coulda used a home depot toilet, but when the liquids floated into a circuit board, well, the toilet NASA bought was a bargain.
Another one you hear a lot about was the $500 hammer. What folks don't tell you is that it wasn't a hammer like you would get a home depot either. It was used to loosen lugnuts by the Air Force. In an area filled with fuel fumes. Now if you are going to hit a nut with a hammer in fuel fumes, do you want to use a $500 titanium hammer, or a standard hammer that will strike sparks?
Think carefully, not only will it determine your future survival, but the safety of a lot of other Air Force mechanics and some very expensive planes...

No, you misread what i said, i am not talking about spending money where it is actually warranted, I am talking about buying something common that anyone could buy and being overcharged for it.

"Boeing charged the Army excessive prices for helicopter spare parts, including $644.75 for a tiny, black plastic motor gear that cost another Pentagon agency $12.51, according to a report by the Defense Department's Inspector General.
Earlier this year, the company refunded $556,006 on the "spur gear" after an audit draft was issued."
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2014950380_boeingcopter04.html

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U.S.S. HAROLD J. ELLISON (DD-864) is the United States Navy’s oldest destroyer in active service and one of the most distinguished of her class. In the 38 years since she was launched at Staten Island, New York, ELLISON has made 16 deployments to the Mediterranean and Europe, circumnavigated the globe to fight in Vietnam and shown the American Flag in dozens of ports on continents. The destroyer has been host to tens of thousands of visitors ranging from school children to an emperor.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
Point taken.
However, sometimes that can happen legitimately as well.
When a corporation contracts for parts delivery, they issue specs and get something that meets specs.
When the US Military contracts for parts delivery, we also buy the design. Why? Because we store this stuff till we need it (a war) and sometimes there are a lot of years between wars (that is a good thing btw).
But in the years between when we contract for the original system, and buy a set of repair parts, and the year we actually need it, companies change. Some go out of business, others change their business model. The assembly lines for our parts are shut down or re-purposed, and the ability to make the part goes away.
So we take the specs and the design to some other company and say "Build this for us." That company has to set up an assembly line just for our part. Sometimes they are setting up a big assembly line for a few hundred parts. It isn't cheap.
We pay for what we need, and those spare parts save us having to buy a new system or go without something the troops need, so we don't even blink.
The cost of the new repair parts will be a lot higher than the cost of the ones in inventory. It might cost $644.75 per unit to run a special run of parts that would have only cost $12.51 if the parts were currently in use and no setup was required. I'm not saying that was the case in this instance, but I'm aware of it happening in the past, not because of fraud and abuse, but because of people doing their best for the military, and actually saving the military money by doing it...
In a perfect world we figured out how many spares we needed, and never have to go through this process. But this ain't a perfect world, so...

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

".. there is a saying: "if you arent a Liberal by the time you are 22 then you dont have a heart, if you arent a Conservative by the time you are 28 then you dont have a brain" "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLLIRWVzUIU (Peter Schiff & Andrew Breitbart)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
Point taken.
However, sometimes that can happen legitimately as well.
When a corporation contracts for parts delivery, they issue specs and get something that meets specs.
When the US Military contracts for parts delivery, we also buy the design. Why? Because we store this stuff till we need it (a war) and sometimes there are a lot of years between wars (that is a good thing btw).
But in the years between when we contract for the original system, and buy a set of repair parts, and the year we actually need it, companies change. Some go out of business, others change their business model. The assembly lines for our parts are shut down or re-purposed, and the ability to make the part goes away.
So we take the specs and the design to some other company and say "Build this for us." That company has to set up an assembly line just for our part. Sometimes they are setting up a big assembly line for a few hundred parts. It isn't cheap.
We pay for what we need, and those spare parts save us having to buy a new system or go without something the troops need, so we don't even blink.
The cost of the new repair parts will be a lot higher than the cost of the ones in inventory. It might cost $644.75 per unit to run a special run of parts that would have only cost $12.51 if the parts were currently in use and no setup was required. I'm not saying that was the case in this instance, but I'm aware of it happening in the past, not because of fraud and abuse, but because of people doing their best for the military, and actually saving the military money by doing it...
In a perfect world we figured out how many spares we needed, and never have to go through this process. But this ain't a perfect world, so...

the list goes on..

"Fraud against the government is rampant.
In fact, some estimates have suggested that approximately 10% of the entire annual United States budget is lost to companies or individuals who are defrauding the government.
The United States Federal budget for 2010 was $3.456 billion, meaning around $345.6 million was wrongfully wasted on fraud."
http://ridgefield.patch.com/articles/blowing-the-whistle-exposing-fraud-for-cash

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Not to nit-pick but you are low by a factor of 1000. The numbers are $3,456 Trillion and fraud $345.6 Billion.

Reportedly, there was $2 trillion lost at the pentagon when accounting offices were hit on 9/11.

Oh but Washington is full of honest politicians and operatives.