Santorum..Gas prices caused the recession

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Lucylastic -> Santorum..Gas prices caused the recession (2/27/2012 5:47:59 PM)
Lansing, Michigan (CNN) - Rick Santorum argued Monday that it was high gas prices, not dubious lending practices or complex Wall Street trades, which torpedoed the housing market in 2008 and brought on the current prolonged economic slump. The Republican presidential candidate made the claim at a campaign event in Lansing, Michigan while accusing President Barack Obama of blocking the expansion of domestic energy production. "We need to look at the situation with gas prices today," Santorum said. "We went into a recession in 2008 because of gasoline prices. The bubble burst in housing because people couldn't pay their mortgages because they were looking at $4 a gallon gasoline." "Look at what happened," Santorum continued. "Economic decline. Here we are again. Trying to struggle out of a recession with Barack Obama and the federal government on the backs of business, not letting them grow. And now we have energy prices again, why? Because of government policy." After the event, however, Santorum sought to clarify his remarks with reporters and described gas prices as a "factor" in the crisis, not necessarily the cause. "I said that that was a factor. I'm sorry. I will make sure that I will be much more specific when I talk about it," Santorum said. Asked if he misspoke, Santorum replied: "Energy prices were spiking up in the summer of 2008 and that was a factor." Video and more http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/27/santorum-high-gas-prices-caused-the-recession/ Maybe he forgot also that reliance on foreign oil is the lowest it has been in 16 years, maybe he should have used the word "factor" in his speech. He comes across as a lying desperate loony.

kalikshama -> RE: Santorum..Gas prices caused the recession (2/27/2012 6:06:38 PM)
[image]http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4400/facepalm3q.jpg[/image]

SoftBonds -> RE: Santorum..Gas prices caused the recession (2/27/2012 6:42:44 PM)
UGH...shiver... I HATE agreeing with Santorum, on anything, for any reason, even partially... yuck. Shudder... Anyway... Urgh. OK, I think I have a handle on it now. Anyway. At least I am disagreeing with what he would want me to think. Focus: OK. This doesn't apply to the vast majority of foreclosures, but... So when Americans were convinced by the mega-banks that homes were "an investment" and that they should buy the biggest house they could afford and send most of their money to the banks in mortgage payments, it led to a significant growth in the sizes of homes people bought. This accelerated the movement of people outside of town, as people moved further from work and accepted long commutes to get big houses and nice schools. This trend had already started, but it got ridiculous in the 2000's. Then gas prices went up. Folks who were commuting an hour or more each way felt it worse than others. Suddenly those huge houses they could barely afford were not such a great idea. For me, doubling the price of gas costs me $50 a month, for those folks it was hundreds... I think (hope) that we are returning to the idea of getting a home near our workplaces. It will save gas, which helps our personal finances, national trade balance, and strategic security. But I do have to admit that some of the least likely foreclosures were probably influenced by gas prices. Of course, the vast majority were caused by fly-by-night lending companies that set up lair's loans, sold them, and then ran off with the profits. Wish we could go back and sue the workers and owners of those companies for malpractice... Edit: Want to make sure everyone realizes I'm not a supporter of Santorum...

Lucylastic -> RE: Santorum..Gas prices caused the recession (2/27/2012 6:45:31 PM)
You Damned Santorum Supporter..Now Im gonna hurt you!!!!!!![:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

slvemike4u -> RE: Santorum..Gas prices caused the recession (2/27/2012 7:01:16 PM)
Always willing to hurt folks...and here I am begging You for years to hurt me.....and nothing.

erieangel -> RE: Santorum..Gas prices caused the recession (2/27/2012 7:03:26 PM)
Softbonds, I get what you're saying and I agree with you that living a long way from work is a factor, I don't think that's what Santorum was saying. Anyway, while I read Santorum's remarks all I could think was 'yeah, and it all happened under Bush's administration'. Though to be fair, the housing bubble started under Clinton and got ridiculous after the repeal of Glass/Steagal. Santorum would have everybody believe that domestic production is low, but Obama has kept Bush's oil policy in place and there is now more oil production in the Continental US than ever--also many off shore drilling sites have opened up. But all this oil production does no good if it isn't being refined and I've heard from several sources that refineries having been working to, and even above capacity.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Santorum..Gas prices caused the recession (2/27/2012 7:09:09 PM)
I think any rise in gas prices helps to worsen a situation that's already bad. I would posit that no matter where a person lives, if they're unemployed and honestly looking for work, they spend more money, driving to all those interviews than a person that has a "regular" commute. Yes, I know. The person that lives in Downtown Dallas who's looking for work doesn't have as long of a commute as say ... (I don't know. Houston's too far away to commute, daily. Right?) a person who lives 70 miles outside Dallas who's driving in, every day. But, they sure spend a lot of fuel on all those "little trips". Talk about adding insult to injury. You're unemployed. Now spend three times as much as you used to, when commuting to try and *find* work. I don't like agreeing with Senator Santorum, either but, even a broken clock is right, twice a day. Peace and comfort, Michael

thishereboi -> RE: Santorum..Gas prices caused the recession (2/27/2012 7:14:37 PM)
So you don't think it was a factor in it?

MrRodgers -> RE: Santorum..Gas prices caused the recession (2/27/2012 9:25:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds UGH...shiver... I HATE agreeing with Santorum, on anything, for any reason, even partially... yuck. Shudder... Anyway... Urgh. OK, I think I have a handle on it now. Anyway. At least I am disagreeing with what he would want me to think. Focus: OK. This doesn't apply to the vast majority of foreclosures, but... So when Americans were convinced by the mega-banks that homes were "an investment" and that they should buy the biggest house they could afford and send most of their money to the banks in mortgage payments, it led to a significant growth in the sizes of homes people bought. This accelerated the movement of people outside of town, as people moved further from work and accepted long commutes to get big houses and nice schools. This trend had already started, but it got ridiculous in the 2000's. Then gas prices went up. Folks who were commuting an hour or more each way felt it worse than others. Suddenly those huge houses they could barely afford were not such a great idea. For me, doubling the price of gas costs me $50 a month, for those folks it was hundreds... I think (hope) that we are returning to the idea of getting a home near our workplaces. It will save gas, which helps our personal finances, national trade balance, and strategic security. But I do have to admit that some of the least likely foreclosures were probably influenced by gas prices. Of course, the vast majority were caused by fly-by-night lending companies that set up lair's loans, sold them, and then ran off with the profits. Wish we could go back and sue the workers and owners of those companies for malpractice... Edit: Want to make sure everyone realizes I'm not a supporter of Santorum... The fact is, most of the foreclosures were precipitated by mortgage lending to people who were unqualified or otherwise...outright mortgage fraud. This was Countrywide and a few others who were writing $billions a week in mortgages. A few of the principals will be indicted. Recall, Fannie and Freddie bought these up clearly outside the historical lending ratios.Then [they] borrowed to make even more. Bonuses baby...got to achieve the numbers boys and we get bonuses. Next, bankers didn't just get that magical AAA rating, the the big investment banks borrowed to buy more...to sell more. What could better than a AAA rating on toilet paper. After a couple years of this...well, you begin to get the picture. Gas prices just simply on the rise by then had little additional effect on any defaults.

SoftBonds -> RE: Santorum..Gas prices caused the recession (2/27/2012 9:28:03 PM)
Oh, I agree entirely with you. I think that gas prices had a tiny effect, and crooked lenders had the largest effect. That said, thishereboi seems to want to debate it...

SilverBoat -> RE: Santorum..Gas prices caused the recession (2/27/2012 11:26:31 PM)
Santorum said "caused" to a particular audience because he thought he could get away with hyping their rightwing-mob mentality, and not get called to task for rhetorical excess (actually lying about cause-effect 'factors'). When he got called on it, he started crawfishing to cover his ass, but you can bet your sweet bippy he'll keep pulling psychological stunts like that. Sure, oil/gas/energy prices factored into the beginning of the recession, but as the economy slowed, demand for fuels dropped, which lowered its prices. And for those of you who blame fraudulent mortgages for the economic collapse, I'd recommend some reading about mortgage 'bundling' and 'tranches', and about debt and credit 'instruments' ... The primary cause of the US (and global) economic collapse had its origins in $400+Trillion (yes, Trillions, 25yrs-worth of US-GDP) of face-value and penalty clauses in complex contracts that banks and brokers had signed with each other, and they'd jiggered each other so viciously that none of them knew who owed who how much. Since they'd figured to collect those Hundred-Trillions out of interest on the millions of mortgages, and they'd insured each other against default, the whole mess imploded when they realized how f**ked they all were, and stopped loaning money to anybody and started trying to claw their balance sheets back into reality. If the Fed hadn't pumped $20-Trillion in 0.25% loans into the bank/broker crooks' operations, there wouldn't be anything resembling recovery going on. YMMV of course, but how many $100k houses would $500-Billion in economic stimulus buy? The $20-Trillion tops the total value of US residential real-estate. At some point in all that, an intelligent citizen ought to notice their government had sold them out to $Trillions in financial fraud. It doesn't say much for the US public that so few have noticed.

Politesub53 -> RE: Santorum..Gas prices caused the recession (2/28/2012 2:35:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi So you don't think it was a factor in it? No it wasnt, not by a long way. Worldwide the reason was down to one thing in 2008. The financial markets. If the US economy is so fragile a fluctuation in oil prices makes it collapse, then its time to ditch capitalism. I think Santorum is confusing boom and bust, which sometimes happens when there is an oil crisis, with financial meltdown. These are two completely seperate events. The man was clearly playing to the gallery. To put it bluntly....... Misspoke, my arse.

kalikshama -> RE: Santorum..Gas prices caused the recession (2/28/2012 5:20:23 AM)
Hopefully, gas prices today comes under normal thread drift. http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/21/business/la-fi-gas-prices-20120221 1. maintenance at California refineries 2. heightened tensions over Iran's nuclear program. And Monday, crude futures jumped to a nine-month high after Iran said it had halted some oil shipments 3. Republican presidential primary hopeful Rick Santorum on Monday blamed President Obama's "radical environmentalist policies" for the increasing gasoline prices. 4. gas prices in the U.S. typically head higher with the onset of spring as more drivers hit the road and refineries in pollution-prone regions begin the tricky switch, mandated by environmental rules, from the winter gasoline formula to summer gas, which is more expensive to produce.* 5. hedge fund managers who have poured billions of dollars into the commodities market are driving up the price of oil and gasoline. -------- * Why is summer fuel more expensive than winter fuel? ...winter-grade fuel uses more butane, with its high Reid Vapor Pressure (RVP) of 52 PSI, as an additive. Butane is inexpensive and plentiful, contributing to lower prices.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Santorum..Gas prices caused the recession (2/28/2012 6:21:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi So you don't think it was a factor in it? I made a post over a year ago (damned if I know how to search back that far) in which I said the same thing... that the rise in fuel prices (not just gas, but diesel, heating oil (not sure about natural gas)) was a contributary factor in the Great Housing Bubble Collapse.

Owner59 -> RE: Santorum..Gas prices caused the recession (2/28/2012 7:31:12 AM)
Odd......in that cons spent a lot of their time denying that there was a recession.

SternSkipper -> RE: Santorum..Gas prices caused the recession (2/28/2012 7:38:51 AM)
quote: Odd......in that cons spent a lot of their time denying that there was a recession. Not at all.... If they acknowledged the recession's actual existence they would have to acknowledge who brought it about and how it was the longest in the memory of most living people. AND they would have to acknowledge that not only did things stabalize a great deal under Obama, that they are slowly getting better. Too Slow GOP. Well next time YOU Take MY ASSETS OUT FOR A JOYRIDE.... [image]local://upfiles/18637/1E6223FA3EF4466B9462E19517869885.jpg[/image]

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