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Medical problems in pain advice and input plz - 2/18/2012 8:57:07 AM   
GoodlilGirlForU


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Been experiencing chronic pain, sometimes excruciating but most times bearable with pain medication. I have recently been diagnosed with degenerative disc disease/bulging discs in my cervical spine. I have pain that radiates from my neck to my shoulder. It's particularly bad right now and about the only way I can get any sleep and function without being in tears is pain medication, which I have become tolerant of and dependent on. This is really scaring me. I was told that I can have surgery to remove the bits of bone fragments which are rubbing against the discs kind of like sand, but the thought of having surgery anywhere on my spine sounds risky to me. Anyone that has similar problems, advice I would really appreciate it.
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RE: Medical problems in pain advice and input plz - 2/18/2012 9:07:04 AM   
kalikshama


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I've had lower back pain off and on for almost 30 years. Yoga has helped me, but it can also hurt, so I recommend you find a chiropractor who is also knowledgeable about yoga, or a yoga teacher thoroughly trained in back issues.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/368765-degenerative-disk-disease-yoga/#ixzz1mkowHA2i

Degenerative disk disease is a condition causing pain from a damaged disk, according to Peter F. Ullrich, M.D. Disk degeneration also happens naturally with aging, but yoga can help relieve the pain associated with the condition regardless of the cause. As with any new treatment, consult your doctor first.


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RE: Medical problems in pain advice and input plz - 2/18/2012 9:13:31 AM   
kalikshama


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See also Jon Kabat-Zinn for mindfulness meditation and yoga as a technique to help people cope with stress, anxiety, pain and illness. A stress reduction program created by Kabat-Zinn is offered at medical centers, hospitals, and health maintenance organizations.

My mother has his gentle yoga tape but I can't find it listed on Amazon.




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RE: Medical problems in pain advice and input plz - 2/18/2012 9:20:22 AM   
angelikaJ


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I can understand your fears.

Did they talk about any other options?

You can opt for a neurosurgical second opinion instead of just orthopedic, since this IS your spine.

http://www.spineuniverse.com/treatments/surgery/neurosurgeon-or-orthopedic-surgeon-does-matter

I would first do that see what all your options are, find out what the percentages of success are with each.

I would pick someone who has done a lot of surgery of the type you need, and would seriously consider having it done.

This is why: this is a serious quality of life issue.



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RE: Medical problems in pain advice and input plz - 2/18/2012 10:47:32 AM   
AttitudyJudy


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I spent three years in agony, until surgery was my only option. Like you, I was terrified, but a good neurosurgeon was recommended to me, and he gave me my life back. The recovery was the most grueling thing I've ever gone through, but I would do it again tomorrow if I needed to to be pain-free and strong as I am now, no restrictions or disabilities. It was six years ago, and it's like I never had a problem....and I had a BAD problem.

You can't live off painkillers the rest of your life, they will mess you up, too. Ask around, especially if you know any physical therapists. On a professional level, they can't recommend specific surgeons, but if you can make friends with any, they know who the good ones and the not-so-good ones are and will steer you in the right direction sort of off-the-record. Since they know the problem you have is bone fragments, then it should be a pretty straight-forward operation they've done a million times to remove them. I recommend doing it.

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RE: Medical problems in pain advice and input plz - 2/18/2012 11:40:25 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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I have DDD too. Also osteoarthritis in most joints. My fingers on my left (writing) hand are not working very well. Just had trouble tying shoelaces.

I've had epidural steroids, about 4 years ago. First time got some relief; 2nd less, and 3rd - meh. TENS unit helps. Muscle relaxers help a little bit. Meditation/creative visualization helps some. Floor work (not exactly downward-facing dog) helps. NSAIDs help. I use a cane. What really helps are the pain meds. They just work. I don't worry at all about being physically dependent. Tolerance is an issue, somewhat, mostly because I want to stay as low as possible so I can increase less in the future, and because of the cost. I've got 55mg. in me right now; my typical daily is 140mg. oxy. Oxy has the fewest side effects of any I've had.

No way am I going to let anyone touch my back unless I am crippled, and surgery is the last resort. Too many fuckups for my liking. New pain doc made noises about a spinal stimulator last visit. I asked him how much they cost. "A lot." "Are you going to cut me a deal and just take what the insurance pays you?" "My wife won't let me (nice dodge, there, doc; lay it on your wife)." Uh-huh. Seems typical out-of-pocket is about $17,000 (if I read and recall rightly) including surgery, the device, copays, follow-ups, etc. I don't have that much. From what I read, that's sort of a last resort thing, too. I don't think he should have brought it up. I'm guessing my previous doc was let go because she wasn't selling enough "procedures". It's not a pill mill, it's a money mill. Fuck that.

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RE: Medical problems in pain advice and input plz - 2/18/2012 11:48:56 AM   
ShaharThorne


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I am dealing with lower back pain currently that wakes me up at nights (4 in the morning, not good) and got some DDD in my hips. I got an appointment with a spine doctor on the 27th about some possible injections. I know that there is compression going on. I take Vicodin and Tramadol as needed for the pain. I just hope that I avoid surgery because I remember my father having surgery when I was a kid and being in a cast for several weeks.

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RE: Medical problems in pain advice and input plz - 2/18/2012 11:51:16 AM   
LaTigresse


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Several people I know have had the surgery and are very glad they did. At some point my daughter will need this surgery and I will certainly encourage her to do so.

It's all about quality of life. I would never want to spend my life in pain or dependent on drugs. I wouldn't want it for anyone I love either.

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RE: Medical problems in pain advice and input plz - 2/18/2012 11:56:00 AM   
kitkat105


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Angelika is right. For cervical spine decompression/laminectomies/discectomies, I would be opting for a neurosurgeon as opposed to an orthopaedic surgeon. They are highly skilled (remember, they work on brains too!) so it's just a matter of finding one in your area with a good reputation. The internet makes that easier these days.

There are risks, but there are risks with all surgery. There is also risks associated with not fixing the problem. I'm not sure how severe your case is, but disc herniation or bone fragments can also damage the spinal cord. Do you have any neuro symptoms other than pain? Eg. numbness, pins & needles, weakness?

They do a couple of cases a month of this surgery at my hospital and it is usually very successful if you follow the doctor's post op care instructions and adhere to a strict physio routine (because your muscles are wasting away from not being able to use them properly).

Good luck with whatever you decide.

ETA: ShaharThorne - usually now it's 2-6 weeks in a soft collar (the foam kind) when upright only (doesn't need to be on in bed, showering, etc).

< Message edited by kitkat105 -- 2/18/2012 11:58:15 AM >


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RE: Medical problems in pain advice and input plz - 2/18/2012 12:07:15 PM   
Lockit


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They told me... you want to walk again... you must have the surgery. If you have it, there is a fifty fifty chance you can or won't be able to walk. My neuro did it and I am thankful I did it. I had a few great years until arthritis and more degeneration of my spine took place. For me, I had to be on the pain meds for years, until I got to MO and they right off the bat said I was a drug addict because I was allergic to a lot of medications. I got stubborn and said no one will ever call me that again and suffered with the pain. I gained weight, my blood pressure sky rocketed, I took over the counters that ruined my digestive system and now have half a life, the other half is all bitch from pain, can't eat much of anything and may need more surgery.

I will do it in a heartbeat if I can find a way to pay for it. However, no ortho is touching me. I will only see a neuro.


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RE: Medical problems in pain advice and input plz - 2/18/2012 12:15:04 PM   
ShaharThorne


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Kit, these days, I think they use a hard corset for lower back surgery recovery. They did a MRI on my lower back and I haven't got the results yet but the bone density test did come back clear so no problems there. Dad's surgery was back in the 70s and they had to replace 2 vertebrate with bone from his hips.

Mom has to deal with back pain as well. It forced her to retire from nursing two years ago. Both of us cannot be standing on our feet for too long before we start hurting. I can't walk for more than 15 minutes before hurting (which is why I use an exercise bike) and I have to use a motorized shopping cart when I go to Walmart. I got the greeters trained...LOL! Having fibromyalgia does not help neither.

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RE: Medical problems in pain advice and input plz - 2/18/2012 12:55:14 PM   
AttitudyJudy


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Yes, I had a "turtle shell" brace, front and back halves that fastened with velcro belts. I only had to wear it when I was up and around, mostly to protect myself in case I fell down. I didn't have to wear it at night or when lying down. You have to get fitted for it before the surgery, because they put it on you before leaving the hospital. I hated the damn thing, though, because it was winter and it was hot under winter clothes and coats, lol. Other than that, it actually was pretty comfortable to wear.

For the record, I was only in the hospital for about a day and a half, including the time actually in surgery. They don't keep you long, lol. And they get you up to start walking a few hours after you get out of recovery. As I said before, the surgery itself is pretty intense, but once they've fixed the physical problem, the pain you had before is all gone. You just have to deal with the surgery pain then, but at least you know that will heal up in time.




< Message edited by AttitudyJudy -- 2/18/2012 1:05:39 PM >


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RE: Medical problems in pain advice and input plz - 2/18/2012 4:23:47 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

For me, I had to be on the pain meds for years, until I got to MO and they right off the bat said I was a drug addict because I was allergic to a lot of medications. I got stubborn and said no one will ever call me that again and suffered with the pain.
This (your MO experience) pisses me off. It's well-known that opioids can cause histamine reactions, and codeine and morphine cause the worst (likely due to the methyl group on the #3 carbon); they can also cause anaphylactic shock.

Damned if I'd suffer the pain just to prove a point, though.


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RE: Medical problems in pain advice and input plz - 2/18/2012 6:21:25 PM   
Rule


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quote:

J Bone Joint Surg Br. 2011 Sep;93(9):1253-8.
Herpes virus infection can cause intervertebral disc degeneration: a causal relationship?
Alpantaki K, Katonis P, Hadjipavlou AG, Spandidos DA, Sourvinos G.
Source

University of Crete, Department of Orthopaedics and Trauma, Faculty of Medicine, Heraklion, Crete 71003, Greece.
Abstract

It has been proposed that intervertebral disc degeneration might be caused by low-grade infection. The purpose of the present study was to assess the incidence of herpes viruses in intervertebral disc specimens from patients with lumbar disc herniation. A polymerase chain reaction based assay was applied to screen for the DNA of eight different herpes viruses in 16 patients and two controls. DNA of at least one herpes virus was detected in 13 specimens (81.25%). Herpes Simplex Virus type-1 (HSV-1) was the most frequently detected virus (56.25%), followed by Cytomegalovirus (CMV) (37.5%). In two patients, co-infection by both HSV-1 and CMV was detected. All samples, including the control specimens, were negative for Herpes Simplex Virus type-2, Varicella Zoster Virus, Epstein Barr Virus, Human Herpes Viruses 6, 7 and 8. The absence of an acute infection was confirmed both at the serological and mRNA level. To our knowledge this is the first unequivocal evidence of the presence of herpes virus DNA in intervertebral disc specimens of patients with lumbar disc herniation suggesting the potential role of herpes viruses as a contributing factor to the pathogenesis of degenerative disc disease.

I had no knowledge about degenerative disc disease, but I do know a huge amount about herpes viruses and the many horrendous diseases that they cause. So I did a gamble and googled and got the above abstract.

Stop eating and drinking (except for plain water and vitamin C tablets) and likely all of your pain will be gone in at most two weeks.

If you must eat, then drink liters of plain yoghurt. You can eat most kinds of potatoes. For a vegetable you can eat chicory. Infrequently (once a week) have an egg or a bit of meat. Avoid all other foods.

I recommend the same diet for anyone else who is chronically ill or in pain.

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RE: Medical problems in pain advice and input plz - 2/18/2012 6:33:09 PM   
kitkat105


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Yes, that will cure chronic pain. Because you'll be in a coma or dead.

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RE: Medical problems in pain advice and input plz - 2/18/2012 6:48:25 PM   
Rule


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Don't be daft. Of course one won't be dead or in a coma. I have been living on mostly three or four liters of yoghurt and some vitamin C tablets per day for 25 years now. All kinds of young mammals grow up to be strong young mammals by suckling on their moms tits exclusively.

Plenty of people can live for a couple of weeks on water and plain vitamin C tablets exclusively.

Why oh why do not people use their god given brains before they say something?

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RE: Medical problems in pain advice and input plz - 2/18/2012 6:49:53 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Don't be daft. Of course one won't be dead or in a coma. I have been living on mostly three or four liters of yoghurt and some vitamin C tablets per day for 25 years now. All kinds of young mammals grow up to be strong young mammals by suckling on their moms tits exclusively.

Plenty of people can live for a couple of weeks on water and plain vitamin C tablets exclusively.

Why oh why do not people use their god given brains before they say something?

If you wanna be like Rule, follow his advice.



Nuff said.

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RE: Medical problems in pain advice and input plz - 2/18/2012 7:25:33 PM   
xxblushesxx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

J Bone Joint Surg Br. 2011 Sep;93(9):1253-8.
Herpes virus infection can cause intervertebral disc degeneration: a causal relationship?
Alpantaki K, Katonis P, Hadjipavlou AG, Spandidos DA, Sourvinos G.
Source

University of Crete, Department of Orthopaedics and Trauma, Faculty of Medicine, Heraklion, Crete 71003, Greece.
Abstract

It has been proposed that intervertebral disc degeneration might be caused by low-grade infection. The purpose of the present study was to assess the incidence of herpes viruses in intervertebral disc specimens from patients with lumbar disc herniation. A polymerase chain reaction based assay was applied to screen for the DNA of eight different herpes viruses in 16 patients and two controls. DNA of at least one herpes virus was detected in 13 specimens (81.25%). Herpes Simplex Virus type-1 (HSV-1) was the most frequently detected virus (56.25%), followed by Cytomegalovirus (CMV) (37.5%). In two patients, co-infection by both HSV-1 and CMV was detected. All samples, including the control specimens, were negative for Herpes Simplex Virus type-2, Varicella Zoster Virus, Epstein Barr Virus, Human Herpes Viruses 6, 7 and 8. The absence of an acute infection was confirmed both at the serological and mRNA level. To our knowledge this is the first unequivocal evidence of the presence of herpes virus DNA in intervertebral disc specimens of patients with lumbar disc herniation suggesting the potential role of herpes viruses as a contributing factor to the pathogenesis of degenerative disc disease.

I had no knowledge about degenerative disc disease, but I do know a huge amount about herpes viruses and the many horrendous diseases that they cause. So I did a gamble and googled and got the above abstract.

Stop eating and drinking (except for plain water and vitamin C tablets) and likely all of your pain will be gone in at most two weeks.

If you must eat, then drink liters of plain yoghurt. You can eat most kinds of potatoes. For a vegetable you can eat chicory. Infrequently (once a week) have an egg or a bit of meat. Avoid all other foods.

I recommend the same diet for anyone else who is chronically ill or in pain.

Damn it Rule, you are not a doctor. You are someone who has convinced himself that everything under the sun is caused by a herpes virus. I wish you would add an addendum to your posts that say something along those lines. Just...quit.
Or at least say "imo" because that is all it is.

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RE: Medical problems in pain advice and input plz - 2/18/2012 7:46:02 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx
Damn it Rule, you are not a doctor.

If doctors had any brains, they would not have studied to be doctors, but endeavored to become scientists. They even cannot keep their case records in order. In any biology exam I am likely to score thirty percent better than the average physician.

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RE: Medical problems in pain advice and input plz - 2/18/2012 8:26:46 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
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From: Liechtenstein
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Don't be daft. Of course one won't be dead or in a coma. I have been living on mostly three or four liters of yoghurt and some vitamin C tablets per day for 25 years now. All kinds of young mammals grow up to be strong young mammals by suckling on their moms tits exclusively.

Plenty of people can live for a couple of weeks on water and plain vitamin C tablets exclusively.

Why oh why do not people use their god given brains before they say something?

If you wanna be like Rule, follow his advice.



Nuff said.
Rule is mostly foreskin, right? Maybe they don't need food.


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