RE: Civility (Full Version)

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IrishMist -> RE: Civility (2/8/2012 8:14:05 AM)

For the most part, I do agree with the statement you made that over the years, people have become less civil, less polite, and less considerate of others. What's more, I am the first to admit that I am probably one of the most uncivil, impolite people a person could ever meet...and I will not make excuses for that...I am what I am and I make no apologies for it.

I have however, over the past several years, tried to change my attitude towards others. I did it not by waiting for them (being a general term ) to be nicer, but instead by forcing myself to think about how I would feel if someone like me came up and started berating, verbally abusing, etc. It actually caused me to rethink my whole attitude, and since then, I have been trying hard to be more considerate, polite, and civil.

With that said, I believe that a person can make a difference in another person's attitude. I don't expect or look for others to change, instead, I change, and it reflects back onto others. Perhaps one day, a person having a bad day with a bad attitude will run into me, and my calm acceptance of that will cause a change to happen.

I can only hope. In the mean time, I just keep on trying to do the best I can, keeping in mind that the only person who will come out ahead from a nice word, or a nice act...is me.

If you want more civility, politeness, and consideration from those around you...you first have to show the same qualities in triple, over, and over again.

Honestly, a person tapping their horn irritates me, even if it's not aimed at me. It shows, to me, a lack of patience and understanding...things that I am trying hard to change in myself.

As an aside...this was not meant as a personal attack on you, Imamsemisweet...it's just a collection of thoughts I had after reading the rest of the responses. [:)]



Iamsemisweet -> RE: Civility (2/8/2012 8:21:56 AM)

So, Irish, there really is nothing as a "short, friendly tap on the horn"? Damn my long ago driver's Ed teacher all to hell! LOL



xxblushesxx -> RE: Civility (2/8/2012 8:37:38 AM)

Two quick little taps along with a smile can work if you REALLY mean for it to be friendly. Most people respond favorably to that. Two quick little taps and throwing your arms up in the air while making it clear if I were in your car, my ears would be bleeding is different. (I don't live in New York or Chicago though, so, I can't speak for all situations and all places.)



IrishMist -> RE: Civility (2/8/2012 8:42:50 AM)

quote:

So, Irish, there really is nothing as a "short, friendly tap on the horn"? Damn my long ago driver's Ed teacher all to hell! LOL

I did not say that. I too, when I went through DE as a teen, was taught that.

What I said was that for many people, having someone 'tap' on their horn behind them, can cause irritability, which in turn can cause anger, which in turn means that you are the recipient.

You had choices to make in that situation. You chose to tap your horn. It was not your only choice though.



AttitudyJudy -> RE: Civility (2/8/2012 8:47:47 AM)

About a week ago, I had my dog outside, on a leash, standing with her in the side yard between the houses while she did her thing. A jogger went jogging by on the sidewalk. Well, she caught me by surprise, jerked the leash out of my hand and tore after him, barking. She actually caught up with him in front of the house next door, and nipped at the back of his ankles. Didn't actually bite him, probably nipped the baggy jogging pants he was wearing. Well, he went ballistic, even though I had chased her immediately, called her back, and she came right away, and I scolded her harshly right there on the spot. I felt really bad, wanted to apologize profusely to him and ask if he was okay, explain how she had caught me by surprise (and she's a very small dog), but he just stood there screaming at me, I need to keep my dog in my yard, what the fuck is wrong with you, jesus christ, what the fuck is wrong with you, you stupid bitch, and on and on. I finally just waved him away and went into the house.

It was my bad, I wanted to apologize and make it right, but some people just have to vent and curse. You have to be rational to be civil.....it was obvious that it was an accident..... but some people just aren't rational.



Iamsemisweet -> RE: Civility (2/8/2012 8:55:23 AM)

I am sorry I came across as defensive, Irish. I was actually making a little joke with my post. And failed.
Just as an aside, god knows I sometimes make some driving blunders, like when I am lost, or just get distracted by scenery or wildlife. People honk at me sometimes, and it shakes me out of my reverie. That's a good thing
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

So, Irish, there really is nothing as a "short, friendly tap on the horn"? Damn my long ago driver's Ed teacher all to hell! LOL

I did not say that. I too, when I went through DE as a teen, was taught that.

What I said was that for many people, having someone 'tap' on their horn behind them, can cause irritability, which in turn can cause anger, which in turn means that you are the recipient.

You had choices to make in that situation. You chose to tap your horn. It was not your only choice though.



IrishMist -> RE: Civility (2/8/2012 9:03:23 AM)

I did not find the post to be defensive, and I saw the humor in it.

Quite honestly, I have never used my horn unless I was waiting for someone outside their home and wanted to alert them that I was there, or I was driving by someone I knew. [8D] What's more, I can freely admit that my response to your question of 'what would I do' is more do to training than anything else [&:] For most people, getting out of your car to see if someone in front of you is ok, simply because they stopped on the street...well, it can be dangerous walking into a situation that you know nothing about.

Seriously though...your whole post was about the lack of civility in others. I am just trying to point out that sometimes, we have to stop looking at what others are lacking, and instead focus on ourselves...it could have been that when you parked your cars, if you had gone over to him and simply stated, "I am sorry sir, but your stopping like that caused me to be concerned for your safety. Is there anything I can do to help you with?" His response might still have been angry, but YOU would have acted with grace, dignity, and consideration. Sometimes, a reaction like that can take the wind out of the sails and leave a person floundering instead.



IrishMist -> RE: Civility (2/8/2012 9:07:14 AM)

Grrrr....[:@]

I am preaching, aren't I?

[:o]

Ok...off my high horse I go...I apologize lol.



littlewonder -> RE: Civility (2/8/2012 9:11:01 AM)

personally I found your posts refreshing IrishMist. I know I can be a little frustrated sometimes with people and what you said sometimes is what we need to be reminded that others are human and make mistakes too and we need to learn to be a little more understanding and patient.

Thank you.



igor2003 -> RE: Civility (2/8/2012 9:27:18 AM)

to the OP:

From your description of the incident it sounds to me like the gentleman had probably been on the busier street, felt like he was having heart problems, and so quickly turned onto a less busy side street to access his pills.  I agree, yes he probably should have pulled more to the side of the street, but possibly thought there would be time on the less busy side street to get his pills and get moved before anyone came up behind him.  I don't know...just a guess. 

I do wonder, though, if you were SO late for work that you couldn't wait even a few seconds to see what was actually going on before giving your "little tap" on the horn?  Did you not have room to go around him or did it just help to relieve your own frustration by tapping your horn to give him a piece of your mind?

I do think there are times when tapping the horn is appropriate...I'm just not sure this was one of them.  Just because there is a horn available doesn't mean you have to use it.

As to your instance of spinning out and your car stalling...YOUR insurance had to pay?  I think you got screwed...and not in a good way!  The laws here (Idaho) state that if you you hit someone from behind it is your fault since you were going too fast and/or following too close for the conditions of the road. 

When I was about 12 years old we were moving from one town to another in the middle of winter with the roads being covered with packed snow and ice.  Another family was also moving on that same day.  They had a large U-Haul truck.  The guy driving the truck pulled out of a side road and stopped, looking back to see if the rest of his moving group was still behind him.  My dad ran into the back of the U-Haul truck. 

The driver of the U-Haul admitted that he did not look for oncoming traffic before pulling out.  He admitted he had been drinking (you could smell the beer on his breath).  And you could see from where the spilled anti-freeze from my dads pickup had leaked that the U-Haul was straddling the center line of the highway.  Guess who got the ticket?  My dad did because he was not able to stop in time due to conditions of the road.  Nothing happened to the guy driving the U-Haul.



GreedyTop -> RE: Civility (2/8/2012 9:29:45 AM)

Semi.. get one of those "air horn in a can" things!! *ducks and runs*



IrishMist -> RE: Civility (2/8/2012 10:09:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

Semi.. get one of those "air horn in a can" things!! *ducks and runs*

LMAO
I love those things.



Zonie63 -> RE: Civility (2/8/2012 11:15:55 AM)

http://www.driversedguru.com/driving-articles/drivers-ed-extras/horn-etiquette/

quote:

When is it appropriate to use your horn? Generally, you should only honk the horn when reasonably necessary to insure safe driving. For example, if your brakes have gone out, honk to alert other drivers.

Use your horn to promote safe driving

However, there are times when it is common and acceptable to use your horn when there’s no immediate threat of a crash. Keep in mind that there is a big difference between giving a quick “beep” and laying on your horn with an obnoxious “BEEEEEEEEEEP”. For example, if the driver in front of you at a red light is not paying attention when the light changes to green, wait at least 4 seconds and then give a light, quick tap on the horn.
If another driver is driving too close to the lane line or almost hits you, it is appropriate to give a quick “beep” to let them know that they made a driving error and need to be more cautious. A quick honk of the horn can mean “Watch what you’re doing!”

...

Don’t use your horn to ask “What’s Happening?”

Do not honk at your friends because this could alarm other drivers. You may startle another driver into slamming on their brakes, aborting their turn, or performing some other dangerous maneuver. Your horn is not a way to say “Hey” as you drive past your friends.

...

Honking is sometimes against the law

In some cities, honking your horn between certain hours is against the law. I don’t think anyone will miss the neighborhood carpool mom honking at 6:00 a.m. to get the kids outside. You don’t have to worry about breaking the law if you use your horn only when absolutely necessary. Not wanting to get out of the car and ring the doorbell is not grounds for using your horn.



Iamsemisweet -> RE: Civility (2/8/2012 11:38:20 AM)

Good point.  I actually assumed he was lost, when he waited for me by the front door of my office.  When he said "hey maam" to me when I walked to the door, I assumed he wanted to ask if a particular business was located there or where something was.  Instead, when I approached the car, he started yelling at me.  Fortunately, I was wearing the perfect skirt and shoes for flouncing off.  Which I did.

Enough about that incident, I guess I would like to talk about civility in a larger sense.  It is kind of a big issue in my profession.  Attorneys used to be pretty collegial, but about 20 years ago, some firms decided that a more aggressive approach was warranted.  It doesn't happen much in the town where i practice, since it is relatively small and reputations  matter,   but occasionally I run across a "colleague" who is threatening or rude, and one time, a guy even deliberately (it seemed to me) spilled coffee all over my file. 

I can think of all sorts of situations I run across every day where people are less than civil, also.  Dumping garbage in my neighborhood, loudly talking at theaters during movies, flipping other people off on the freeway.  I guess we can only change ourselves, however.
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

I did not find the post to be defensive, and I saw the humor in it.

Quite honestly, I have never used my horn unless I was waiting for someone outside their home and wanted to alert them that I was there, or I was driving by someone I knew. [8D] What's more, I can freely admit that my response to your question of 'what would I do' is more do to training than anything else [&:] For most people, getting out of your car to see if someone in front of you is ok, simply because they stopped on the street...well, it can be dangerous walking into a situation that you know nothing about.

Seriously though...your whole post was about the lack of civility in others. I am just trying to point out that sometimes, we have to stop looking at what others are lacking, and instead focus on ourselves...it could have been that when you parked your cars, if you had gone over to him and simply stated, "I am sorry sir, but your stopping like that caused me to be concerned for your safety. Is there anything I can do to help you with?" His response might still have been angry, but YOU would have acted with grace, dignity, and consideration. Sometimes, a reaction like that can take the wind out of the sails and leave a person floundering instead.



sunshinemiss -> RE: Civility (2/8/2012 12:01:56 PM)

Iamsemisweet

My avatar says the Great Northwest. Doesn't that indicate what country I am from?
No.  I believe that most countries have a northwest portion to them.

Therefore give a hint of which one I am talking about?
Only if others know that people in the USA call it that - and are you absolutely sure that people in other countries don't call portions of their countries the "Great Northwest"?  I'm not well acquainted enough with the other countries represented here to be able to answer that. I actually thought you were in Canada because that is where the great northwest is in my experience.

If not, I will change it to the US.
That would be helpful, thank you.

best,
sunshine




sunshinemiss -> RE: Civility (2/8/2012 12:09:48 PM)

 
quote:

ORIGINAL: AttitudyJudy
You have to be rational to be civil.....it was obvious that it was an accident..... but some people just aren't rational.


Now there's a true statement... and sometimes rational people are irrational.  One of the things I try to do (don't always succeed but do try!) is to think of how they might be having a rough day.  Oh man, there have been times I've had to go back and eat crow when I've just been through the wringer and take it out on someone else.  I try to make amends when it's appropriate.  I've seen X, a dear friend of mine, just rip someone else out right after he learned his mother had died and his brother had been diagnosed with cancer.  X is the most giving and considerate person I know, and he just roared his rage at some poor unsuspecting person.  :( 

I tend to think that things are harder these days, more complex, more details to handle, more everything that creates more stress on people.  The only thing that is less is the number of lessons to teach stress management!

best,
sunshine



IrishMist -> RE: Civility (2/8/2012 12:15:36 PM)

quote:

Enough about that incident, I guess I would like to talk about civility in a larger sense. It is kind of a big issue in my profession. Attorneys used to be pretty collegial, but about 20 years ago, some firms decided that a more aggressive approach was warranted. It doesn't happen much in the town where i practice, since it is relatively small and reputations matter, but occasionally I run across a "colleague" who is threatening or rude, and one time, a guy even deliberately (it seemed to me) spilled coffee all over my file.

I can think of all sorts of situations I run across every day where people are less than civil, also. Dumping garbage in my neighborhood, loudly talking at theaters during movies, flipping other people off on the freeway. I guess we can only change ourselves, however.

It is in mine too, or at least, on a broader sense. Even though I am affiliated with the sheriffs dept, and I am 'loaned' to them on a regular basis, I don't actually have much to do with the public at large. When I am with them though, I do have to watch carefully how I interact with others because it reflects back upon them.

As for attorneys, I have met a few that are pretty aggressive, but not any who are downright rude or threatening. I guess I am lucky in that regard [;)] I don't mind an aggressive attorney; personally, I think that it helps to be a bit aggressive at times. There is a limit though, especially when you are dealing with the public on a daily basis.

Someone else already said this but I believe that our decline in the area of civility, politeness, consideration, etc has happened because of the use of the internet and cell phones (texting, etc ). It gives a person a format in which there is no reason to accept responsibility because you can hide behind a screen of some sort.



kalikshama -> RE: Civility (2/8/2012 3:11:44 PM)

quote:

Use your horn to promote safe driving


If I am in front in an intersection, waiting for the light to change, and I see someone running a red light (which I know because my light is green) I always lay on the horn to give some negative reinforcement.



littlewonder -> RE: Civility (2/8/2012 5:56:25 PM)

Ok so tonight I had an incident at CVS and was reminded of this thread. I went to do the self service check-out to buy some cough medicine. Well, apparently you have to show ID to show you are over 18 to be able to buy it. Sooo the light is saying for someone to come to the counter and verify my ID....I wait....and wait....and wait some more...15 minutes go by while everyone walks by me and staring. An employee comes up to the front from back, looks at me and walks off....wwwhhhaaa??? At that point I just left the medicine at the counter with the light flashing and my ringup still on the machine. I just walked right out.

I tried to be patient, I tried to think that maybe they're just really busy, but when the guy just walks off after seeing me....ggrr. I was about ready to go and find a manager and complain and yell because ya know I'm feeling like crap tonight and just wanted something to help me sleep. Instead I just left. I could have been rude but I kept thinking I will not stoop to their level. They'll simply get less of my business. On top of that I now I have no cough medicine because I just came home not wanting to be bothered by it any longer. [:'(]



JstAnotherSub -> RE: Civility (2/8/2012 6:09:48 PM)

I must be mellowing with age, because I honestly can not remember the last time I got anything but a laugh out of someone being a dick. I like to study their expressions and critique it in my mind.

If I get behind a slow old folk, I just turn the music up and remember that I wish someone was having to be a lil patient because my old mom or dad was driving too slowly.

But it could just be this.



[image]local://upfiles/633062/4054EAFFC71344E6AFB23A27BE5DD21E.jpg[/image]



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