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Crosswind landings at Dusseldorf airport - 2/3/2012 8:37:17 AM

Duskypearls

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Cool beans!

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RE: Crosswind landings at Dusseldorf airport - 2/3/2012 9:17:44 AM

DominantHunger

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Disclaimer: I have had just enough pilot training to be dangerous - and I am not sure my comments will make any sense to non-pilots.

That was interesting... largely because those pilots are coming in all rudder and that isn't how I was taught to handle cross winds. What I was taught was to use the rudder to keep yourself lined up on the runway until the final phase of landing where you turn into the wind instead of sliding into the wind. That way your wheels are pointing in the direction of travel at the point they touch pavement. I am assuming the commercial pilots know better how to handle their planes that this flight student, but I am curious why they were using the technique they did.

< Message edited by DominantHunger -- 2/3/2012 9:21:24 AM >

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RE: Crosswind landings at Dusseldorf airport - 2/3/2012 10:26:34 AM

Hillwilliam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantHunger

Disclaimer: I have had just enough pilot training to be dangerous - and I am not sure my comments will make any sense to non-pilots.

That was interesting... largely because those pilots are coming in all rudder and that isn't how I was taught to handle cross winds. What I was taught was to use the rudder to keep yourself lined up on the runway until the final phase of landing where you turn into the wind instead of sliding into the wind. That way your wheels are pointing in the direction of travel at the point they touch pavement. I am assuming the commercial pilots know better how to handle their planes that this flight student, but I am curious why they were using the technique they did.

I have no pilot training but a good physics and vector analysis background.

I'm going to guess that the technique you learned was for smaller planes in a low to moderate crosswind. These planes have a couple of orders of magnitude more mass and, based on the visuals, those crosswinds were severe enough to preclude landings by 'puddle jumpers'. The mass would make it more difficult because I noticed that the pilots tended to hold the nose up until the plane had straightened out to reduce stress on the nose gear. In low to moderate crosswinds, they would probably use the technique you learned.

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RE: Crosswind landings at Dusseldorf airport - 2/3/2012 10:53:00 AM

DominantHunger

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That makes some sense. I am now also wondering if those winds were strong enough that turning into the wind would have required banking so far that it would have dragged a wing tip. I think I would rather risk blowing a tire than dragging a wing.

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RE: Crosswind landings at Dusseldorf airport - 2/3/2012 11:42:04 AM

Hillwilliam

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Regardless, It's some hairy-assed landings. I've seen bush pilots crabbing in like that onto a gravel runway in Alaska. Them guys haz balls.

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RE: Crosswind landings at Dusseldorf airport - 2/3/2012 12:02:58 PM

MercTech

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Looks right based on conversations with military C131 pilots... crab in, ground back wheels, momentum straightens nose out in direction of travel once they touch down.

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RE: Crosswind landings at Dusseldorf airport - 2/3/2012 10:02:50 PM

wulfgarw

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantHunger

That makes some sense. I am now also wondering if those winds were strong enough that turning into the wind would have required banking so far that it would have dragged a wing tip. I think I would rather risk blowing a tire than dragging a wing.

You got it. Us guys flying in lighter winds normally approach in a slip, which is what you were describing earlier. Keep in windward bank, opposite rudder to prevent horizontal lift from initiating a turn, a little extra power at first, but keep it coming out until 'field made' while aiming at your landing point and flare as usual. Beware of a cross control stall which can occur a couple knots above VSO. I sometimes would come in w/ 10 KIAS extra and leave the flaps at 25. (Piper Warrior III, 2nd notch flaps)

What you need to do in stronger winds, and particularly larger and low wing aircraft, is what's known as a crab. Longer the wing, the less bank angle needed to drag that wingtip from a given height. Give yourself a little extra smash like say, 5-10% of your normal approach speed, stomp that rudder pedal at the last second, touch the windward gear first and stay on top of your directional control before you even THINK of touching the brakes or thrust reversers if equipped. Your nosewheel will take care of itself if you roll out somewhat straight. Especially in higher winds, use aerodynamic braking as much as you can before relying on your wheel brakes. Multiengine aircraft have an advantage in that they can use asymmetrical thrust to minimize the crab angle, but create a 'critical engine' situation in which if that (the windward) engine fails, they can lose control of the aircraft, stall, or both.

Have your instructor teach you to crab, and practice it. You never know if you have to land somewhere unplanned, or if the planned weather isn't what the briefer told you it was going to be.

And you're right, blowing a tire is much more preferable to bending the bird.

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RE: Crosswind landings at Dusseldorf airport - 2/3/2012 10:27:54 PM

Rule

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Vertical landings. Cool!

I wonder when turnable landing strips will be invented.

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RE: Crosswind landings at Dusseldorf airport - 2/4/2012 9:21:57 AM

SilverBoat

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Yeow, that's some serious crabbing. Maybe 30kt+ crosswinds and 150kt approaches? Did you notice the guy who waved-off and went around because he got too far above the slope?

I do lots of vector stuff for a living, passed the written decades ago, but only got a couple of official air-hours. One landing had about 15kts at 45-deg in a low-wing tail-dragger Cessna, the instructor kept his hands ready, but I only bounced once, and kept the wings level.

I'm thinking that at 30kt or more, I'd have been scanning the charts for a strip with less bias.

...

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