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RE: Joe Paterno passes away. - 1/22/2012 4:54:44 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fornica

Once is enough.
If he saw what he was accused of seeing, and didn't do every fucking thing he could to protect that boy, death is too kind a punishment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
That doesnt mean he knew it was an ongoing thing, or the extent of the investigation that University conducted at the time.




Paterno didnt see anything. What was seen was reported to him.

He reported to the University per the law.

The man follows the law and still he is to blame. Could he have done more?

If you had not seen something like that, what would you do?

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Joe Paterno passes away. - 1/22/2012 5:00:47 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


If you had not seen something like that, what would you do?

Maybe FIRE the SOB that was raping kids?

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Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Joe Paterno passes away. - 1/22/2012 5:10:14 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Did Joe have that authority?

In 1999, Sandusky retired and assumed a role as an assistant professor of physical education. Although he continued to have access to the school's football facilities, he was not connected to the program in an official capacity. Paterno could not have fired Sandusky, nor was he legally culpable for any failure to report any criminal action committed by him.

Although Sandusky might have considered himself Paterno's subordinate, he would not have been accurate in such a self-description. When Paterno was informed of the allegations, he was reporting the actions of a former employee with whom he had no official connection.

According to this, no.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/933794-in-defense-of-paterno

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 1/22/2012 5:17:11 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Joe Paterno passes away. - 1/22/2012 5:24:49 PM   
Fornica


Posts: 2986
Status: offline 		Sorry, "was told".
What stopped him from getting police, etc involved? To make sure the child was vindicated/protected?
If you stand back while child abuse occurs, or have knowledge of it, but do nothing (tattling without making damn sure there are massive consequences is doing nothing in my book).

If my son went through that..I would not give a rats ass who had "authority" to do what.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Joe Paterno passes away. - 1/22/2012 6:44:40 PM   
BoxwineForBrunch


Posts: 184
Joined: 11/14/2011
Status: offline 		the only part of his "legacy" that matters is that he covered up for a monster, and in the process chose to make himself tacitly complicit.

the notion that "poor joe paterno couldn't really have done anything about it anyway, beyond following through on the absolute minimal level of legal compliance" is absurd on the face of it. the power and influence paterno exerted on that campus is legendary. thanks to a combination of moral apathy, misguided personal loyalty, and professional expediency he CHOSE to allow sandusky to continue.

paterno's legacy is one of shame, disgrace, and cruel indifference.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Joe Paterno passes away. - 1/22/2012 6:46:27 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fornica

Sorry, "was told".
What stopped him from getting police, etc involved? To make sure the child was vindicated/protected?
If you stand back while child abuse occurs, or have knowledge of it, but do nothing (tattling without making damn sure there are massive consequences is doing nothing in my book).

If my son went through that..I would not give a rats ass who had "authority" to do what.


You will not find me in support of his lack of "doing more". But I will not go as far as to label him a criminal when he did exactly what the law expected him to do.

The one who everyone should be angry at is the assistant who witnessed it and did nothing.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Fornica)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Joe Paterno passes away. - 1/22/2012 6:48:37 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoxwineForBrunch

the only part of his "legacy" that matters is that he covered up for a monster, and in the process chose to make himself tacitly complicit.

the notion that "poor joe paterno couldn't really have done anything about it anyway, beyond following through on the absolute minimal level of legal compliance" is absurd on the face of it. the power and influence paterno exerted on that campus is legendary. thanks to a combination of moral apathy, misguided personal loyalty, and professional expediency he CHOSE to allow sandusky to continue.

paterno's legacy is one of shame, disgrace, and cruel indifference.



He did not work for Paterno at that point.

He worked for the school.

Paterno took it to the school

Who covered it up

Do you know what the school told Paterno?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BoxwineForBrunch)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Joe Paterno passes away. - 1/22/2012 8:00:29 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Taz, at the Div I college level, coaches hire and fire all their assistants without having to go thru the uni.
That's part of their job description.
He could have fired him.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Joe Paterno passes away. - 1/22/2012 10:55:57 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		He wasnt Paterno's assistant when this happened as far as I can ascertain.

quote:

In 1999, Sandusky retired and assumed a role as an assistant professor of physical education. Although he continued to have access to the school's football facilities, he was not connected to the program in an official capacity. Paterno could not have fired Sandusky, nor was he legally culpable for any failure to report any criminal action committed by him.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Joe Paterno passes away. - 1/23/2012 7:00:52 AM   
VirginPotty


Posts: 11624
Joined: 7/16/2008
From: Virginville
Status: offline 		Whether or not he knew the full extent of the abuse going on we'll never know but you can't convince me that he didn't at least suspect what was happening and since he was indeed told what was witness first hand in my mind he was more concerned about the allegations screwing up his coaching staff the the children or he'd have pursued it further.

Personally I'm with HillW on this one, f*ck him I hope he rots in hell.
IF I'm wrong, God forgive me but I don't believe that I am.

So those that want to cherish his memory how'd you feel when Michael Jackson died? 

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Joe Paterno passes away. - 1/23/2012 7:07:42 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BoxwineForBrunch

the only part of his "legacy" that matters is that he covered up for a monster, and in the process chose to make himself tacitly complicit.

the notion that "poor joe paterno couldn't really have done anything about it anyway, beyond following through on the absolute minimal level of legal compliance" is absurd on the face of it. the power and influence paterno exerted on that campus is legendary. thanks to a combination of moral apathy, misguided personal loyalty, and professional expediency he CHOSE to allow sandusky to continue.

paterno's legacy is one of shame, disgrace, and cruel indifference.




Paterno admits knowing about Victim 2. How much victimization might have been prevented had Paterno used his influence to do something? I was very sad to read in the grand jury report that Victim # 8's name is unknown.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You will not find me in support of his lack of "doing more". But I will not go as far as to label him a criminal when he did exactly what the law expected him to do.


No one on this thread is labeling Paterno a criminal or a rapist. Possibly a legal case could have been made involving conspiracy regarding the cover up.

(in reply to BoxwineForBrunch)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Joe Paterno passes away. - 1/23/2012 7:13:03 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		If it was Joe Sixpack that had died under exactly the same curcumstances instead of Joe Paterno, people would be screaming for his head on a pike.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to VirginPotty)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Joe Paterno passes away. - 1/23/2012 7:31:49 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Paterno admits knowing about Victim 2.


Thats because victim #1 was never reported to the school. Thats the case the DA decided not to prosecute... not the one the school didnt report. Victim 2 is the one McQueary said he saw.

quote:

No one on this thread is labeling Paterno a criminal or a rapist. Possibly a legal case could have been made involving conspiracy regarding the cover up.


I truly feel sad for the students. So many dropped the ball. So much could have been prevented.

But, I really believe that if Paterno believed any of this was true, he would not have supported Sandusky.

Hoe always seemed so much smarter than that.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Joe Paterno passes away. - 1/23/2012 7:33:39 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

So those that want to cherish his memory how'd you feel when Michael Jackson died? 


Cherish what memory? Im a Tarheel girl.

I merely am going on facts in evidence. As emotional as the case is, as much blame that can be spread around, I believe you are all damning the wrong man to hell.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 1/23/2012 7:34:54 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to VirginPotty)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Joe Paterno passes away. - 1/23/2012 8:30:33 AM   
kalikshama


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Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

As emotional as the case is, as much blame that can be spread around, I believe you are all damning the wrong man to hell.


While it is easier for me to be compassionate towards mental illness than greed and pride, Sandusky is not exempt from my wrath.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Joe Paterno passes away. - 1/23/2012 8:39:31 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.


This.

As a person who aspires to BE a leader, I hold myself to a higher standard of behaviour than I hold others. Joe was a leader. He allowed himself to be place upon a pedestal and enjoyed the perks that pedestal provided. But when some nasty shit got shoved uphill, he simply shoved it on past and continued with business as usual. He didn't lead and take responsibility as a leader.

I cannot respect that, or care that he is dead. He was old. Old people die. It's part of life. I only hope that his last days were full of the pain and regret of knowing that he didn't do more when he should have.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 1/23/2012 8:40:11 AM >

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Joe Paterno passes away. - 1/23/2012 8:44:26 AM   
LadyPact


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I'm from where the whole scandal took place, my family still lives there. I called two of my sisters today. I asked them how they're doing like I always do when calling. The first thing they both said in very very saddened voices is "Well Joe is dead".

Personally it's sorta a big deal thing for me because Joe was synonymous with football there and football is literally their livelihood there. If it wasn't for football that area would have become a ghost town at least 50 years ago. But on the other hand I was never a sports fan and only ever went to all the football stuff out of tradition and culture there.

So even though what he did was very wrong, I also understand him because I've met him many times, I know the area, I know how people are there, I know their attitudes and such. The scandal wasn't a shock to me.

And so while we could reflect on what he did, we could also keep in mind that he was an old, most likely after the last time I saw him a few years ago, probably already going a little senile and probably should have retired about 10 years ago. We could still at least give him a moment of rememberance not as a coach but simply as a human being and the pain of his family.

Quite a bit of this.  Scandal or no, to a lot of people, that man was the football program in the eyes of a lot of people.

No matter what a man did or didn't do, I still feel for his family and their loss at his passing. 


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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Joe Paterno passes away. - 1/23/2012 10:47:51 AM   
Winterapple


Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline 		FR
Didn't Paterno say he wish he had done more?

This Sandusky cretin used Paterno's name
and his connection to him to lure his
victims. Did Paterno ever confront Sandusky?
Did he ever speak to him again?
And how were Paterno and the guy who
witnessed the crime able to stomach what
they knew about Sandusky? How were they
able to sleep knowing he was a free man?
Free to find more victims.
What happened was a travesty and the
handling/covering up is almost as repulsive
as the crimes themselves.
I don't care how many football games he
won he was a moral coward. And football
trophies don't cancel out moral failings.





_____________________________

A thousand dreams within me softly burn.
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(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Joe Paterno passes away. - 1/23/2012 10:52:56 AM   
Winterapple


Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline 		Not moral failings of this magnitude.
I don't doubt he did good things during
his life and I'm sure he loved his family
and they him. And now he's gone.
The victims and their families will live with
this for the rest of their lives. Longer than
he had to.



_____________________________

A thousand dreams within me softly burn.
Rimbaud




(in reply to Winterapple)
Profile   Post #: 39
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