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Everything you need to know about wall street - 1/21/2012 7:00:35 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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Status: offline 		In one brief tale.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/01/14-2

How is it these people aren't in jail?

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.
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RE: Everything you need to know about wall street - 1/21/2012 7:18:43 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

How is it these people aren't in jail?



Ahem...






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RE: Everything you need to know about wall street - 1/21/2012 8:33:46 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Sad but true. But the more stuff like this that comes out, the more people will be screaming for their heads. Someone has to listen eventually, there are some ambitious AGs and prosecutors who would love to bag a wall streeter.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Everything you need to know about wall street - 1/21/2012 10:15:05 PM   
Edwynn


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And here I was thinking that people "using their houses as ATM cards," as the media relentlessly parrots, or that granny widow in the poorest of neighborhoods dragging mortgage originators into their web of  deceit was the problem in all this.


Let us not look too closely at how the law making systems in New Jersey and in Georgia in response to predatory lending were completely usurped by Ameriquest and Standard & Poors by the latter's threat to refuse to give rating to any such original mortgage-backed bonds originating therefrom.


In a civil world, this would be called racketeering. In historical terms it's called a coup.


Even though real wages declined by 4 % from 2000 to 20005, while the .01 % kept getting tax breaks "to stimulate" things, it might be understandable that responsible citizens, especially those who had been financially responsible all their lives and saw their retirement funds and their equity in their final house all take a dive might in this latest fiasco into deregulatory fiasco want to punch in the face all these "used their house as an ATM" fuckwits that argue still in the cause of the further deregulation.


I'm done with you.






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 1/21/2012 10:30:53 PM >

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RE: Everything you need to know about wall street - 1/21/2012 11:51:33 PM   
erieangel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Sad but true. But the more stuff like this that comes out, the more people will be screaming for their heads. Someone has to listen eventually, there are some ambitious AGs and prosecutors who would love to bag a wall streeter.



I heard that Schneiderman and Biden--AG's of New York and Deleware, respectfully, are working together to bring suits against many on Wall Street.  Biden is suing MERS, Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems which was incorporated in Deleware and appears to be "front" for the mortgage industry to avoid all those recorder of deeds offices.  Biden is arguing that a private registry is illegal under Deleware law.  Schneiderman is suing BofA as well as Bank of New York.  And these suits can only grow if these two men win the battles they have laid out thus far.

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RE: Everything you need to know about wall street - 1/22/2012 12:37:44 PM   
kalikshama


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At one point during these deals, Verschleiser reamed out his immediate subordinate, co-head of mortgage finance Baron Silverstein, over the "problem" of the due diligence department taking too much time to do its work. Silverstein responded by issuing the following tirade to John Mongelluzzo, Bear's VP for Due Diligence, demanding that he not get in the way of Bear's insane goal of funding 500 mortgages a day:

I refuse to receive more emails from [Verchleiser] (or anyone else) questioning why we’re not funding loans every day. I’m holding each of you responsible for making sure we fund at least 500 each and every day… I was not happy when I saw the funding numbers and I knew NY would NOT BE HAPPY... I expect to see 500+ every day. I will do whatever is necessary to make sure you’re successful in meeting this objective.

Whenever any right-wing loon, or Bloombergite, tries to tell you the mortgage crisis was caused by the government forcing the poor banks to lend to broke black people, please direct them to this passage. The banks not only wanted to give out these loans, they wanted to give them out at the speed of light. They wanted to crank them out so fast that their own auditors literally couldn't read the writing on the loan applications. This was greed, not policy. Anybody who says anything else is high on something.

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RE: Everything you need to know about wall street - 1/22/2012 1:04:34 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		I don't think fraudulent lending lawsuits or charges are going to go anywhere, though. There is too much of an argument that they were arms length transactions, and the banks don't owe borrowers a fiduciary duty. The banks wanted to lend money, people wanted to borrow it.

The other actions talked about in this article might have some legs, legally. That is what should be pursued. There is a far better argument that these banks had a fiduciary duty to their investors, that was almost certainly breached.

Hey edwynn? I'll live.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Everything you need to know about wall street - 1/22/2012 1:14:38 PM   
kalikshama


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Status: offline 		Join Elizabeth's Call for Wall Street Accountability

To overcome Wall Street's armies of lobbyists and make sure everyone follows the law, we must take some key steps:

1. The Senate must confirm Richard Cordray as director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.
2. Our state Attorneys General and federal enforcement officials must investigate the illegal actions that broke the economy and, when evidence warrants, prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.
3. Congress must stop the late-night budget tricks designed to weaken agencies responsible for enforcing the laws.

Stand with Elizabeth Warren and fellow supporters in demanding Wall Street accountability by using the form to the right.

[Cordray was confirmed via recess appointment.]


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RE: Everything you need to know about wall street - 1/22/2012 3:14:57 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

The banks wanted to lend money, people wanted to borrow it.

There is a far better argument that these banks had a fiduciary duty to their investors, that was almost certainly breached.




There we go. Finally getting it here, what is taught in every money and credit, banking and finance class. Yes, fiduciary duty devolves to the lenders, because it's other people's money they are doing it with. There are always people who want to borrow, sometimes for nefarious purposes, which has historically been the job of the financial intermediaries to sheild the savers and investors from. Until now.


When we get to the further issue of what is legal or not and therefore what warrants prosecution, we can start looking at the laws and the relaxation of regulatory processes in place that made possible, actually the inevitability, the destruction of numerous pension funds and retirement funds and responsible home owners equity in fact, 'legal.' Enron, writ large.


If that's OK with you.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 1/22/2012 3:46:07 PM >

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RE: Everything you need to know about wall street - 1/22/2012 3:17:27 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

banks had a fiduciary duty to their investors


Im sorry. Investors? Not depositors? Who are the banks beholden too?

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RE: Everything you need to know about wall street - 1/22/2012 3:34:39 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		In this case, investors. Any fiduciary duty to their depositors is usually discharged through the FDIC. Having been tangentially involved in a couple of bank closures, I know beyond the FDIC limit, there is not much duty to depositors.

I think some interesting things may spring from this legally. It was a clear scam against the investors and probably contract as well as statutory and common law is at stake. It's a case someone might be able to win, under the existing legal framework.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Everything you need to know about wall street - 1/22/2012 4:49:34 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		I just find it strange .. and some would probably call me naive .. that banks need "investors" that they must answer too much more readily than their depositors.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Everything you need to know about wall street - 1/22/2012 4:57:56 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama


Whenever any right-wing loon, or Bloombergite, tries to tell you the mortgage crisis was caused by the government forcing the poor banks to lend to broke black people, please direct them to this passage. The banks not only wanted to give out these loans, they wanted to give them out at the speed of light. They wanted to crank them out so fast that their own auditors literally couldn't read the writing on the loan applications. This was greed, not policy. Anybody who says anything else is high on something.


Kalik nails another one.

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RE: Everything you need to know about wall street - 1/22/2012 5:02:46 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I just find it strange .. and some would probably call me naive .. that banks need "investors" that they must answer too much more readily than their depositors.


This is probably because most banking funds derive from investors(small and large) in the forms of bonds and such. Much of what went on was only possible when savings banks were allowed to act like investment banks. The lines became blured as to which was which and profit at all costs was the outcome. We all know where that led us to.

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RE: Everything you need to know about wall street - 1/22/2012 5:08:23 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
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Status: offline 		I think this quote is from the article.
I thing Goldman and Bear are investment banks ( well, Bear was an investment bank). I don't think they have depositors
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama


Whenever any right-wing loon, or Bloombergite, tries to tell you the mortgage crisis was caused by the government forcing the poor banks to lend to broke black people, please direct them to this passage. The banks not only wanted to give out these loans, they wanted to give them out at the speed of light. They wanted to crank them out so fast that their own auditors literally couldn't read the writing on the loan applications. This was greed, not policy. Anybody who says anything else is high on something.


Kalik nails another one.



_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Politesub53)
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RE: Everything you need to know about wall street - 1/22/2012 5:56:56 PM   
Edwynn


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All investment comes ultimately from savors. Your money doesn't sit idle in your account. The investment banks have to get their money from somewhere. Aside from that, when you send your money to a mutual fund, you are saving for your retirement. All investment comes from savors, that is a basic fact. Several mutual fund money market accounts, prior to this episode considered 'safe,' were burned by Citigroup's (a commercial bank) CDO-backed commercial paper.

In any event, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act allowed commercial banks to act as investment banks, for those who missed it.

Many municipal, state, federal, and private pension funds buy securities from investment banks. Checking accounts are not the only source of all funds here.








< Message edited by Edwynn -- 1/22/2012 6:07:08 PM >

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RE: Everything you need to know about wall street - 1/22/2012 6:45:16 PM   
Edwynn


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So the question remains: what do responsible savors, responsible borrowers, and responsible home owners have to do with the deterioration of their position?

Or are we to take from the press and their "used their house as an ATM" and "poor black granny dragged the mortgage lenders into their house and made them do the 'no stated income, no stated assets' loans" rendering of the situation? Some would have us believe that the banks and 'hedge' funds putting a 40/1 leverage (bet, that is to say) to the CDOs derived from the shadiest of loans, which state legislators were prevented from acting against, have nothing to do with the situation that retirees now have to sell their house at more than 40% below pre-boom/bust market value. All good if you make a living off of it.


All are welcome to believe what they like, as suits their purpose. Puppets welcome.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 1/22/2012 7:14:19 PM >

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RE: Everything you need to know about wall street - 1/23/2012 10:46:16 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

Whenever any right-wing loon, or Bloombergite, tries to tell you the mortgage crisis was caused by the government forcing the poor banks to lend to broke black people, please direct them to this passage. The banks not only wanted to give out these loans, they wanted to give them out at the speed of light. They wanted to crank them out so fast that their own auditors literally couldn't read the writing on the loan applications. This was greed, not policy. Anybody who says anything else is high on something.


The conclusion you reach is, I think, undeniably right; but the government is why they wanted to do so.
Fannie and Freddie were buying them up as fast as the banks could write them.

And, yes, it did start with the government requiring banks to write risky loans.
They dragged their feet until the government made it automatically and hugely profitable for them to do so....


_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: Everything you need to know about wall street - 1/23/2012 9:02:19 PM   
Edwynn


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Sorry, but you've got it bass-ackwards here.

However much you desire your wacko ideology to give you a fabulous blowjob, it ain't gonna happen.

Turn the radio off and acquaint yourself with reality.

FNMA and FHLMC had higher sub-prime standards than commercial banks, by a long shot. They in fact lowered their standards somewhat in response to the impetus from commercial and investment banks in that direction.

Those in the business are well aware of this. Politically inclined fuckwits will always remain what they are, clueless.



PS

Did the government actually mandate CDOs and credit default swaps, or did they just legislatively allow them to happen? Your boys, the Reaganite deregulators did all this, so your pointing out government cause in the current crisis is well founded. Just not in the way your fantasy would have it.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 1/23/2012 9:16:35 PM >

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RE: Everything you need to know about wall street - 1/23/2012 9:21:33 PM   
PeePantsIn2012


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quote:

How is it these people aren't in jail?


Let me tell you something,America is a great nation because we’re a united nation. And those who try to divide the nation, as you are trying to do here and as our president is doing, are hurting this country seriously.

Is it possible that a candidate worth close to a quarter of a billion dollars, who refuses to release his tax returns and who reportedly has millions stashed away in the Cayman Islands, is having trouble connecting with the common man. NOT A CHANCE.





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