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Organic can feed the world - 12/15/2011 8:30:13 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/12/organic-can-feed-the-world/249348/#.TuoecVjbrBA.facebook

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Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
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RE: Organic can feed the world - 12/15/2011 8:31:44 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		hardly surpising, people were eating haggis and oats long before monsanto.

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RE: Organic can feed the world - 12/15/2011 8:50:55 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		Great link!! Thanks, IAS!!

It only makes sense that locally grown food with sustainable techniques would be better. Drastically cutting down petroleum usage to produce and transport food makes sense too.

When you think about it, how ridiculous is it to RELY on fresh greens that are trucked from the ends of the country? There would be more food security, too.

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RE: Organic can feed the world - 12/15/2011 9:02:41 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Now if we can only convince people that they do not need to have 10 children when they are getting better healthcare and food availability.

I am not condemning or putting people down for big families because in many areas of the world they are necessary because of the childhood mortality rate…BUT… if all these children were to survive the population will quickly overload the worlds resources.

I know I know many will say how can I , as a member of a country abusing these same resources, be arrogant enough to talk of third world family size. Will we need to address both problems.

Butch

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RE: Organic can feed the world - 12/15/2011 9:46:53 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		It seems intuitive that a food system that is based on fossil fuels for both production and distribution is going to be more volatile and expensive than one that is based on sustainable farming and local production.  Regardless of what Monsanto tries to make us believe



_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Organic can feed the world - 12/15/2011 11:10:51 AM   
kalikshama


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Status: offline 		Monsanto does not want us to know about the Hidden Costs of Industrial Agriculture and The Hidden Costs of Cheap Pesticides.


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RE: Organic can feed the world - 12/15/2011 11:30:49 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		this dude,.. i bought his book on square foot gardening ages ago (since updated).. he would go around to poor countries and show them how to grow food on very poor soil.. (he had pics of him in 3rd world countries in his first book so he did actually do that)
Its very intensive, uses a small amount of space and very little water, etc..

http://www.squarefootgardening.org/#!__whatissfg/what_is_sfg (video)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_foot_gardening

http://www.melbartholomew.com/category/blog/

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RE: Organic can feed the world - 12/15/2011 1:46:32 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Now if we can only convince people that they do not need to have 10 children when they are getting better healthcare and food availability.

I am not condemning or putting people down for big families because in many areas of the world they are necessary because of the childhood mortality rate…BUT… if all these children were to survive the population will quickly overload the worlds resources.

I know I know many will say how can I , as a member of a country abusing these same resources, be arrogant enough to talk of third world family size. Will we need to address both problems.

Butch



That's an easy "problem" to take care of.

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RE: Organic can feed the world - 12/15/2011 1:57:26 PM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		The article confused me.

I believe that the premise behind conventional agriculture is to maximize the yield per acre.  Costs, etc., were not really investigated because the land availability was taken to be limiting.  The article seemed to compare organic vs conventional as two binary alternatives.

Organic requires a certain minimum level of humus and also the lack of chemical fertilizers and pesticides.  That's three degrees of freedom.


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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: Organic can feed the world - 12/15/2011 2:09:37 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Not quite sure what you mean, Steven, but one of the things Michael Pollan talks about is that "yield per acre" has become the chief goal for agribusiness, whether or not it makes sense economically or not.  This is why monocrop farmers have ever increasing yields, but less profits.
Think of all the empty space (vacant lots, land awaiting development, large yards) that you drive by every day.  A lot of that space can be used to produce food, in a small farm model.   It is a fallacy to think that land availability is limited.  Water, however, is another story.  But conventional factory farming does little to preserve that resource, either.


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Organic can feed the world - 12/15/2011 5:49:14 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

It seems intuitive that a food system that is based on fossil fuels for both production and distribution is going to be more volatile and expensive than one that is based on sustainable farming and local production.  Regardless of what Monsanto tries to make us believe




If that is true, then why is the organic food more expensive?


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RE: Organic can feed the world - 12/15/2011 6:13:43 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

why is the organic food more expensive?


Your tax dollars at work:

http://www.organicfoodee.com/sense/tooexpensive/

Organic food is better for you and your family. It contains more vitamins, minerals, enzymes and taste than intensively­farmed produce. It is also free from insecticides, pesticides, growth hormones, antibiotics, fertilisers and a whole host of other toxic artificial additives, flavourings, colourings and preservatives. So if it contains less added chemicals, why does it cost more?

At first glance, you might expect organic food to cost less to produce than foods with added extras. However, it’s a lot more complex than that. The main reason that intensively farmed foods are cheaper to buy in the shops is that you are paying for them in your taxes. Agro­chemical agriculture is heavily subsidised by the taxpayer through the government, whereas organic farming receives no subsidies at all.

http://www.organicfoodee.com/top-10/tips-eating-organic-budget/

10 Tips for Eating Organic on a Budget

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RE: Organic can feed the world - 12/15/2011 7:56:13 PM   
tweakabelle


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Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		Permaculture is a way of growing organic foods that can be applied anywhere - from an apartment balcony to wide open deserts - in any climate or environment. Permaculture draws from several disciplines including organic farming, agroforestry, sustainable development, and applied ecology.

The general idea is to re-create mini eco-systems that generate the foods we need naturally in accordance with local conditions and human needs. It's probably the purest application of knowledge I've ever encountered.

It's developer, Bill Mollinson, has described it as:
"a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted and thoughtful observation rather than protracted and thoughtless labor; and of looking at plants and animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single project system."
The primary agenda of the movement has been to assist people to become more self reliant through the design and development of productive and sustainable gardens and farms. The design principles which are the conceptual foundation of permaculture were derived from the science of systems ecology and study of pre-industrial examples of sustainable land use."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permaculture

More information on permaculture can be found here and here. Check it out!

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RE: Organic can feed the world - 12/15/2011 10:27:42 PM   
heartcream


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From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline 		Yay Organic food. It is ridiculous we even need to call it "organic". Shows how much they messed up the food in the first place. Jaysuss. Let us not kill each other, ourselves and the planet. Would be grand, thanks.

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RE: Organic can feed the world - 12/15/2011 10:42:24 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Because agribusiness is so heavily subsidized. The true costs are externalized. Everything from free or very cheap irrigation water, to outright cash payments. Small, organic farms don't get the same benefits.
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet



If that is true, then why is the organic food more expensive?



_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Organic can feed the world - 12/15/2011 10:52:54 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet
Because agribusiness is so heavily subsidized. The true costs are externalized. Everything from free or very cheap irrigation water, to outright cash payments. Small, organic farms don't get the same benefits.

And its a lot harder for a farm to qualify as organic and its not something they can do overnight.. i looked at the requirements a few years ago and it was like wtf?

< Message edited by tj444 -- 12/15/2011 10:54:03 PM >

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RE: Organic can feed the world - 12/15/2011 11:32:02 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		It is even harder to be organic now that GMO crops are so prevalent.

_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Organic can feed the world - 12/16/2011 4:29:33 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

If that is true, then why is the organic food more expensive?




Because much of the farming industry in the the EU and USA is ( or was ) subsidised.

After clinton signed the NAFTA agreement, cheap subidised corn decimated the Mexican market. As for the EU, there have been rows about subsidies being unfair for as long as I can remember.

The above is a prime example of the so called "free market" being subsidised directly by the tax payer.

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RE: Organic can feed the world - 12/16/2011 4:31:00 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

It is even harder to be organic now that GMO crops are so prevalent.



More to the point, if the wind blows Monsanto seeds onto your farm, then you might have to prove you didnt plant them yourself.

See Food.Inc for details

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RE: Organic can feed the world - 12/16/2011 5:50:03 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

Great link!! Thanks, IAS!!

It only makes sense that locally grown food with sustainable techniques would be better. Drastically cutting down petroleum usage to produce and transport food makes sense too.

When you think about it, how ridiculous is it to RELY on fresh greens that are trucked from the ends of the country? There would be more food security, too.


Then maybe someone can explain to me why I go to the grocery store and organic products are three times the cost.

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