MF Global used loophole to legally take client money... (Full Version)

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InvisibleBlack -> MF Global used loophole to legally take client money... (12/10/2011 12:24:08 AM)

http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/Securities/Insight/2011/12_-_December/MF_Global_and_the_great_Wall_St_re-hypothecation_scandal/

quote:

A legal loophole in international brokerage regulations means that few, if any, clients of MF Global are likely to get their money back. Although details of the drama are still unfolding, it appears that MF Global and some of its Wall Street counterparts have been actively and aggressively circumventing U.S. securities rules at the expense (quite literally) of their clients. 

MF Global's bankruptcy revelations concerning missing client money suggest that funds were not inadvertently misplaced or gobbled up in MF’s dying hours, but were instead appropriated as part of a mass Wall St manipulation of brokerage rules that allowed for the wholesale acquisition and sale of client funds through re-hypothecation. A loophole appears to have allowed MF Global, and many others, to use its own clients’ funds to finance an enormous $6.2 billion Eurozone repo bet. 

If anyone thought that you couldn’t have your cake and eat it too in the world of finance, MF Global shows how you can have your cake, eat it, eat someone else’s cake and then let your clients pick up the bill. Hard cheese for many as their dough goes missing. 


So apparently that 1.2 billion that's gone missing from client accounts wasn't "stolen" - it was used as collateral to fund the highly-leveraged purchase of European debt and won't be coming back. The people I know who had accounts at MF Global are being told they'll likely get back 60 cents on the dollar for their accounts.

I want you to seriously think about that. How well could you handle having your savings vanish and being told you'll likely get back 60% of it?

quote:

“7. Consent To Loan Or PledgeYou hereby grant us the right, in accordance with Applicable Law, to borrow, pledge, repledge, transfer, hypothecate, rehypothecate, loan, or invest any of the Collateral, including, without limitation, utilizing the Collateral to purchase or sell securities pursuant to repurchase agreements [repos] or reverse repurchase agreements with any party, in each case without notice to you, and we shall have no obligation to retain a like amount of similar Collateral in our possession and control.” 



Do you know exactly what your brokerage house, mutual fund, investment bank, pension manager or IRA fund is doing with your money? Bear in mind that with the repeal of Glass-Steagall, that commercial bank you deal with may well now be part of an investment back or brokerage concern.


quote:

With weak collateral rules and a level of leverage that would make Archimedes tremble, firms have been piling into re-hypothecation activity with startling abandon. A review of filings reveals a staggering level of activity in what may be the world’s largest ever credit bubble. 
Engaging in hyper-hypothecation have been Goldman Sachs ($28.17 billion re-hypothecated in 2011), Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (re-pledged $72 billion in client assets), Royal Bank of Canada (re-pledged $53.8 billion of $126.7 billion available for re-pledging), Oppenheimer Holdings ($15.3 million), Credit Suisse (CHF 332 billion), Knight Capital Group ($1.17 billion),Interactive Brokers ($14.5 billion), Wells Fargo ($19.6 billion), JP Morgan($546.2 billion) and Morgan Stanley ($410 billion). 



It's become pretty obvious that any argument that the laxity that resulted in the financial meltdown of 2008 has been addressed is pretty much bogus. In fact, these financial firms have become so convoluted and their dealings so byzantine and intertwined that it's effectively impossible to regulate them - certainly not with the current system of useless political hacks led by ex-finance CEOs (notably Goldman Sachs executives) appointed to positions of power.

These "too big to fail" financial institutions need to be broken up, the separation between commercial and investment banking restored, serious penalities put into place for any sort of financial malfeasance and the ability of any bank, brokerage house, or the like to have any transactions "off the books" removed.

Along those lines, membership on the House and Senate committees that oversee these areas need to be rotating and the concept that someone can sit on such a panel for a decade or more become anathema.




tj444 -> RE: MF Global used loophole to legally take client money... (12/10/2011 12:46:48 AM)

The article talks about the US & the UK... so.. are there any countries in the world that prohibit the corps like MF Global from using their clients money as collateral?
Are there any corps anywhere in the world that dont do the exact same thing as these too big to fail corps have done and I expect are still doing?




Termyn8or -> RE: MF Global used loophole to legally take client money... (12/11/2011 3:30:42 AM)

Similar to what tj brought up...... there are supposed to be regulations about this shit.

Back when we had money there was, now there ain't, go figure. I am completely against government interention in private lives, but when any entity gets to a certain scale of operations it's time for it to be considered a fixture, a public ulitity, something like that. That means steel mills and auto plants. You just CANNOT move these motherfuckers out. Try it and lose your shit. This should be made clear to every business that starts.

And it DEFINITELY means the oil companies. The government might as well just own them. (pun intended) Where do you think BP started ? It's walking distance.

T^T




Fellow -> RE: MF Global used loophole to legally take client money... (12/11/2011 5:21:54 AM)

I am sure there is an another "loophole" that would allow to put MF Global crooks behind the bars. Of course it will not happen to friends and donors to Obama (like Jon Corzine). It is basically organized crime and looting these people are doing. What we need is political will to prosecute. Obama administration is there to back up this kind of criminal behavior. 




Moonhead -> RE: MF Global used loophole to legally take client money... (12/11/2011 5:34:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Where do you think BP started?

Iran.
Google "Anglo-Iranian Oil" sometime, dear.




tazzygirl -> RE: MF Global used loophole to legally take client money... (12/11/2011 6:26:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

I am sure there is an another "loophole" that would allow to put MF Global crooks behind the bars. Of course it will not happen to friends and donors to Obama (like Jon Corzine). It is basically organized crime and looting these people are doing. What we need is political will to prosecute. Obama administration is there to back up this kind of criminal behavior. 


Yeah, sweetheart, because we know all this mess began with Obama.




Owner59 -> RE: MF Global used loophole to legally take client money... (12/11/2011 8:38:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

I am sure there is an another "loophole" that would allow to put MF Global crooks behind the bars. Of course it will not happen to friends and donors to Obama (like Jon Corzine). It is basically organized crime and looting these people are doing. What we need is political will to prosecute. Obama administration is there to back up this kind of criminal behavior. 

Though Corzine in a long time dem. and was my governor,I`d like to see him fry over this one.

Put me on the jury.

Probably my biggest beef with President Obama is that he hasn`t gone after the bansters on the premise that it`s better to look and move forward then backward.

Tho this might seem charitable and nobal,it encourages more negative behaviours.

The whole reason to go after the bansters or any malfeasant isn`t to hash-up the past but to prevent future problems, by making jailed/broke/ruined examples of them.

One of my biggest problems with cons is they want to go back to the bush system of no rules,no oversight with banksters writing what rules there were.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: MF Global used loophole to legally take client money... (12/11/2011 8:54:57 AM)

There are almost certainly Sarbannes-Oxley violations in their financial reporting regardless of any other loopholes. The problem is this administration hasn't pursued even the most egregious violations of S-O.




MrRodgers -> RE: MF Global used loophole to legally take client money... (12/11/2011 10:11:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

There are almost certainly Sarbannes-Oxley violations in their financial reporting regardless of any other loopholes. The problem is this administration hasn't pursued even the most egregious violations of S-O.

It was under Bush that it was finally passed and signed during which those violations never been vigorously pursued.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: MF Global used loophole to legally take client money... (12/11/2011 10:21:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

There are almost certainly Sarbannes-Oxley violations in their financial reporting regardless of any other loopholes. The problem is this administration hasn't pursued even the most egregious violations of S-O.

It was under Bush that it was finally passed and signed during which those violations never been vigorously pursued.


1. "Bush did it too" is not a defense.
2. You are wrong that they werent vigorously pursued under the Bush administration. Health South and numerous FCPA violations enabled by S-O were pursued. Obama administration? Not a single prosecution related to the banking crisis that I can find.




Owner59 -> RE: MF Global used loophole to legally take client money... (12/11/2011 10:29:49 AM)

So what has the majority party in power in the house done about it other that make it easier to flout the law?

It`ll be entertaining to see the ass-hats who promote bush-policy, criticizing what the results are.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: MF Global used loophole to legally take client money... (12/11/2011 10:31:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

So what has the majority party in power in the house done about it other that make it easier to flout the law?

It`ll be entertaining to see the ass-hats who promote bush-policy, criticizing what the results are.



How have they "made it easier"? Oh, they havent. Never mind.




MrRodgers -> RE: MF Global used loophole to legally take client money... (12/11/2011 11:19:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

There are almost certainly Sarbannes-Oxley violations in their financial reporting regardless of any other loopholes. The problem is this administration hasn't pursued even the most egregious violations of S-O.

It was under Bush that it was finally passed and signed during which those violations never been vigorously pursued.


1. "Bush did it too" is not a defense.
2. You are wrong that they werent vigorously pursued under the Bush administration. Health South and numerous FCPA violations enabled by S-O were pursued. Obama administration? Not a single prosecution related to the banking crisis that I can find.

Well you regularly point out 'this admin,' so I point out 'that admin,' is as guilty. The HealthSouth case was the first big case, (2002) under the law and there wasn't much at all after that.

We have not heard the last from DOJ on this most recent bank fleecing and the FCPA enforcement you speak of resulted from a pick-up by the DOJ in 2007 and now continues through this admin.




submittous -> RE: MF Global used loophole to legally take client money... (12/11/2011 11:27:08 AM)

Just another example of the privileged 1% playing the rest of us in the 99% as suckers. It's not an issue of conservative or liberal, Democrat or Republican it is an issue of haves and have-nots. It you have to ask who the sucker at the table is the answer is you. Those of us that didn't come from families worth hundreds of millions of dollars are ALL part of the 99%.




Fellow -> RE: MF Global used loophole to legally take client money... (12/11/2011 12:51:04 PM)

quote:

Yeah, sweetheart, because we know all this mess began with Obama.

Obama administration near-absolute avoidance to prosecute financial crime is a scandal. Accounting fraud by banks for example is highly encouraged by the administration. Compare Obama administration handling the crisis with Savings and Loans scandal (that was about 40 times smaller problem) and you understand what I am saying.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: MF Global used loophole to legally take client money... (12/11/2011 2:42:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

There are almost certainly Sarbannes-Oxley violations in their financial reporting regardless of any other loopholes. The problem is this administration hasn't pursued even the most egregious violations of S-O.

It was under Bush that it was finally passed and signed during which those violations never been vigorously pursued.


1. "Bush did it too" is not a defense.
2. You are wrong that they werent vigorously pursued under the Bush administration. Health South and numerous FCPA violations enabled by S-O were pursued. Obama administration? Not a single prosecution related to the banking crisis that I can find.

Well you regularly point out 'this admin,' so I point out 'that admin,' is as guilty. The HealthSouth case was the first big case, (2002) under the law and there wasn't much at all after that.

We have not heard the last from DOJ on this most recent bank fleecing and the FCPA enforcement you speak of resulted from a pick-up by the DOJ in 2007 and now continues through this admin.


The difference is that THIS administratrion is the ADMINISTRATION trying to be reelected. Blaming Bush and "he did it too" is nothing more than an ability to defend Obama's actions.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: MF Global used loophole to legally take client money... (12/11/2011 2:43:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: submittous

Just another example of the privileged 1% playing the rest of us in the 99% as suckers. It's not an issue of conservative or liberal, Democrat or Republican it is an issue of haves and have-nots. It you have to ask who the sucker at the table is the answer is you. Those of us that didn't come from families worth hundreds of millions of dollars are ALL part of the 99%.


That lie was put to rest long ago. Take a look at the richest people in the US now and every 5 years going back. The change in names toally debunks this bullshit.




Owner59 -> RE: MF Global used loophole to legally take client money... (12/11/2011 2:51:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

Yeah, sweetheart, because we know all this mess began with Obama.

Obama administration near-absolute avoidance to prosecute financial crime is a scandal. Accounting fraud by banks for example is highly encouraged by the administration. Compare Obama administration handling the crisis with Savings and Loans scandal (that was about 40 times smaller problem) and you understand what I am saying.



This is about 1/3 of the beef the OWSers have with Obama and with government.

I couldn`t agree more.




tazzygirl -> RE: MF Global used loophole to legally take client money... (12/11/2011 9:05:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

Yeah, sweetheart, because we know all this mess began with Obama.

Obama administration near-absolute avoidance to prosecute financial crime is a scandal. Accounting fraud by banks for example is highly encouraged by the administration. Compare Obama administration handling the crisis with Savings and Loans scandal (that was about 40 times smaller problem) and you understand what I am saying.



I never said I supported Obama in his handling of this or TARP.

Problem is, it didnt start with Obama.




DomKen -> RE: MF Global used loophole to legally take client money... (12/11/2011 9:40:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: submittous

Just another example of the privileged 1% playing the rest of us in the 99% as suckers. It's not an issue of conservative or liberal, Democrat or Republican it is an issue of haves and have-nots. It you have to ask who the sucker at the table is the answer is you. Those of us that didn't come from families worth hundreds of millions of dollars are ALL part of the 99%.


That lie was put to rest long ago. Take a look at the richest people in the US now and every 5 years going back. The change in names toally debunks this bullshit.

Gates and the Wal-Mart heirs. The list has been pretty stable since Sam Walton died.




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