How would you do if you took a standardized test today? (Full Version)

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Fightdirecto -> How would you do if you took a standardized test today? (12/6/2011 8:43:10 AM)

When an adult took standardized tests forced on kids

quote:

A longtime friend on the school board of one of the largest school systems in America did something that few public servants are willing to do. He took versions of his state’s high-stakes standardized math and reading tests for 10th graders, and said he’d make his scores public.

By any reasonable measure, my friend is a success. His now-grown kids are well-educated. He has a big house in a good part of town. Paid-for condo in the Caribbean. Influential friends. Lots of frequent flyer miles. Enough time of his own to give serious attention to his school board responsibilities. The margins of his electoral wins and his good relationships with administrators and teachers testify to his openness to dialogue and willingness to listen.

He called me the morning he took the test to say he was sure he hadn’t done well, but had to wait for the results. A couple of days ago, realizing that local school board members don’t seem to be playing much of a role in the current “reform” brouhaha, I asked him what he now thought about the tests he’d taken.

“I won’t beat around the bush,” he wrote in an email. “The math section had 60 questions. I knew the answers to none of them, but managed to guess ten out of the 60 correctly. On the reading test, I got 62%. In our system, that’s a “D”, and would get me a mandatory assignment to a double block of reading instruction."

He continued, “It seems to me something is seriously wrong. I have a bachelor of science degree, two masters degrees, and 15 credit hours toward a doctorate."

“I help oversee an organization with 22,000 employees and a $3 billion operations and capital budget, and am able to make sense of complex data related to those responsibilities."

"I have a wide circle of friends in various professions. Since taking the test, I’ve detailed its contents as best I can to many of them, particularly the math section, which does more than its share of shoving students in our system out of school and on to the street. Not a single one of them said that the math I described was necessary in their profession."

“It might be argued that I’ve been out of school too long, that if I’d actually been in the 10th grade prior to taking the test, the material would have been fresh. But doesn’t that miss the point? A test that can determine a student’s future life chances should surely relate in some practical way to the requirements of life. I can’t see how that could possibly be true of the test I took.”

Here’s the clincher in what he wrote:

"If I’d been required to take those two tests when I was a 10th grader, my life would almost certainly have been very different. I’d have been told I wasn’t ‘college material,’ would probably have believed it, and looked for work appropriate for the level of ability that the test said I had."

“It makes no sense to me that a test with the potential for shaping a student’s entire future has so little apparent relevance to adult, real-world functioning. Who decided the kind of questions and their level of difficulty? Using what criteria? To whom did they have to defend their decisions? As subject-matter specialists, how qualified were they to make general judgments about the needs of this state’s children in a future they can’t possibly predict? Who set the pass-fail “cut score”? How?”

“I can’t escape the conclusion that decisions about the state test in particular and standardized tests in general are being made by individuals who lack perspective and aren’t really accountable.”...

Those decisions are shaped not by knowledge or understanding of educating, but by ideology, politics, hubris, greed, ignorance, the conventional wisdom, and various combinations thereof. And then they’re sold to the public by the rich and powerful.

All that without so much as a pilot program to see if their simplistic, worn-out ideas work, and without a single procedure in place that imposes on them what they demand of teachers: accountability.


The Myths Of Standardized Testing

Five Myths of standardized testing - all false and having no basis in fact:

quote:

* Students’ knowledge and skills can be assessed by a sample of content that makes up a 45-question test.

* High test scores of students at any particular school prove that there is high student achievement and quality teaching at the institution.

* Punishments or rewards to teachers or students based on test scores motivate them to do better.

* A standardized test score is a better reflection of student learning any any other form of assessment.

* If the stakes to a test are high enough, people will work harder and improve their performance to meet the challenge.


Could you, a presumably educated adult, take the same standardized test the public school students in your community today are required to take - and get a passing score?




willbeurdaddy -> RE: How would you do if you took a standardized test today? (12/6/2011 9:09:34 AM)

FR

Yes, easily




kalikshama -> RE: How would you do if you took a standardized test today? (12/6/2011 9:16:40 AM)

quote:

Could you, a presumably educated adult, take the same standardized test the public school students in your community today are required to take - and get a passing score?


I was fabulous at learning by rote and regurgitating. I imagine I'd have to repeat at least a semester to do well. My brain appears to delete the knowledge once no tests are on the horizon.

Case in point - I was a Munitions Systems Specialist in the USAF around the Persian Gulf War and always aced my tests. However, men who were fans of video games featuring the same weapons during the same time period have better recall than I do.

In school, I always learned more by doing projects that required me to think rather than memorize.




Fightdirecto -> RE: How would you do if you took a standardized test today? (12/6/2011 9:25:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
quote:

Could you, a presumably educated adult, take the same standardized test the public school students in your community today are required to take - and get a passing score?

Case in point - I was a Munitions Systems Specialist in the USAF around the Persian Gulf War and always aced my tests. However, men who were fans of video games featuring the same weapons during the same time period have better recall than I do.

Funny you should mention the military. It brought back to mind one of the soldiers who served under me in Germany. He literally had a phobia about taking written tests. He knew his job backwards and forewards and could even teach others how to do the job - but if you made him sit down and take a written test on his job, he would actually get physically ill.

As a result, we could never get him promoted past Private First Class.




kalikshama -> RE: How would you do if you took a standardized test today? (12/6/2011 9:28:03 AM)

I was smarter than a 5th grader - you? http://www.funeducation.com/Tests/5thGrader/TakeTest.aspx




windchymes -> RE: How would you do if you took a standardized test today? (12/6/2011 9:29:33 AM)

You have to remember, the tests given to 10th graders contain information that has been presented to them much more recently so it's fresh in their minds. I'm sure there were many questions on the tests that the guy in the article took that he probably knew the answers to at one time, but it's normal to forget information learned in school as you go about your life and the years go by. That doesn't mean a quick refresher read or review wouldn't put the information back into his head for at least as long as it would take to take the test again. I don't think his scores at his age are that big of a deal.

Like when I went to school for medical lab technology. We had to learn a lot of shit, lots of information, medical terminology, chemistry, anatomy and physiology, on and on and on. Our teacher even said, learn this stuff for the certification test, and then never forget WHERE TO LOOK IT UP WHEN YOU NEED IT. Practical working knowledge of any subject is more important, IMO, than memorizing facts. Over the years, at companes I've worked for, the eggheads that came in with the ability to quote pages of their textbooks have the least ability to actually DO the job they were hired for. They usually ended up going back to school to get their Masters and PhD's, so they can get paid a lot more money to sit around and quote pages of their textbooks.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: How would you do if you took a standardized test today? (12/6/2011 9:30:20 AM)

FR

I'll get my snark in in advance so it cant be a TOS violation. There is one poster here who definitely would pass a standardized test...if the test was tying his/her shoes or crossing the street. Any higher standard he/she would struggle with. Just Wonder who that might be, lol. Drop the first two digits from 10 acres. :)




windchymes -> RE: How would you do if you took a standardized test today? (12/6/2011 9:32:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

FR

I'll get my snark in in advance so it cant be a TOS violation. There is one poster here who definitely would pass a standardized test...if the test was tying his/her shoes or crossing the street. Any higher standard he/she would struggle with. Just Wonder who that might be, lol. Drop the first two digits from 10 acres. :)



I hate you, now I'm going to have to sit here until I figure that riddle out....




willbeurdaddy -> RE: How would you do if you took a standardized test today? (12/6/2011 9:39:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

FR

I'll get my snark in in advance so it cant be a TOS violation. There is one poster here who definitely would pass a standardized test...if the test was tying his/her shoes or crossing the street. Any higher standard he/she would struggle with. Just Wonder who that might be, lol. Drop the first two digits from 10 acres. :)



I hate you, now I'm going to have to sit here until I figure that riddle out....


Thats ok, you'll figure it out long before he/she will. ;) There is a second clue that he/she (and maybe ONLY he/she) will get before the math though. You are defintitely too new at P&R to pick it up :) And of course if he/she responds I will deny deny deny lol.




MissAsylum -> RE: How would you do if you took a standardized test today? (12/6/2011 10:20:37 AM)

Yes, only due to just finishing my masters with an unfair ton of math courses. My masters is in art, so for me personally, math makes me itch.

However, when i was in grade 10.... in 2005 through 2006 i believe, many things in the math section i had never recalled seeing before. Some of which i still didn't see until my junior year of college.

I would say it had that it had to do with going to an inner city public high school. However, my cousin who went to a private school that is ranked 869 out of 9824 private high schools is the United States and graduated in the top 5% of her class also hadn't seen the type of problems that were on math sections of standarized tests until she was in college as well.

English never was, never is, and hopefully, never will be an issue with me, as i've always had high scores in english and reading comprehension.




tazzygirl -> RE: How would you do if you took a standardized test today? (12/6/2011 10:33:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

I was smarter than a 5th grader - you? http://www.funeducation.com/Tests/5thGrader/TakeTest.aspx


That was fun! And I got an 85. [;)]




kalikshama -> RE: How would you do if you took a standardized test today? (12/6/2011 10:37:35 AM)

I'm ok with missing a science question and I'm blaming missing a math Q on a poor night's sleep :)

I got an 80.




tazzygirl -> RE: How would you do if you took a standardized test today? (12/6/2011 10:38:22 AM)

I missed the rounding one. Gah! I clicked then said.. damn... that was wrong!




Ishtarr -> RE: How would you do if you took a standardized test today? (12/6/2011 11:49:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

Could you, a presumably educated adult, take the same standardized test the public school students in your community today are required to take - and get a passing score?


Let's see.
I'm a high school drop out at age 14 (though never went to high school in the US).

At age 24 -after not having touched school books for nearly a decade- I decided to go back to school and took the American GED so that I could apply for college.
I Aced the GED without studying for it.
Then I took the college application tests.
I Aced those, and I tested out of having to take pre-calculus, and only missed 3 questions in order to be able to test out of calculus.

Why yes, yes I'm pretty sure I'll be able to manage to get a passing score on a 10th grader's standardized tests.

Ever single standardized math test I've taken in the US has been ridiculously easy. Even the exams for the college math classes I've taken have been ridiculously easy.

I looked up an example of the standardized math test for 10th graders online, and that test is ridiculously easy. It's got a bunch of question that aren't even technically math, but spacial recognition (recognizing a figure from a different angle) or reading comprehension (being able to read a table) instead.
If this guy is flunking that test, he's a moron, and the problem with the American education system isn't that the tests are too hard, but that guys like him are even remotely capable of getting a college degree in anything.




Ishtarr -> RE: How would you do if you took a standardized test today? (12/6/2011 11:59:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

I was smarter than a 5th grader - you? http://www.funeducation.com/Tests/5thGrader/TakeTest.aspx


I missed the American history questions except number 8, but got everything else correct. 87%




Hillwilliam -> RE: How would you do if you took a standardized test today? (12/6/2011 12:38:24 PM)

When I was teaching, we FL teachers had to take a standardized test and everyone was freaking out about it.

I walked out thinking "What an insult to my intelligence and a waste of a beautiful saturday morning". I was amazed when I heard of the people who actually failed it. I guess I just take standardized tests well. Does it mean I'm more intelligent than someone who didn't score high? NO, absolutely not! It just means I take tests well.

Some people do and some don't.




mnottertail -> RE: How would you do if you took a standardized test today? (12/6/2011 12:39:33 PM)

There were only two I had any reservations about...but I will be goddamned if I am gonna give them my email.

So, based on that I suppose zero.  I mean for fucks sake, how can you not know most of this shit and have went to grade school?   This shit was hammered into you since you learned to bomb china instead of your nappies. 




tazzygirl -> RE: How would you do if you took a standardized test today? (12/6/2011 12:43:18 PM)

Not everyone knows China can bomb. [;)]




samboct -> RE: How would you do if you took a standardized test today? (12/6/2011 12:46:10 PM)

OK- I just went through the first 10 questions of a 2006 Texas standardized test for 10th graders: http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/student.assessment/resources/online/2006/grade10/math/10math.htm

I suspect I got them correct, but I don't feel like slogging through the whole thing to get scored. When I was in high school, I was a National Merit semi-finalist, which like Mr. Hillbilly points out- means that I was good at those tests. In college, I noticed that some folks could do pretty good on those tests and some folks didn't-but the kids who didn't could still ace a tough course. My translation was that if you did well on the test- you had a certain level of intelligence- if you didn't- the question was open. However, that Texas test wasn't particularly difficult, and I must admit, I'd question somebody who couldn't figure out a bunch of that stuff.

In terms of the author of this article- I suspect he's probably a guy that Scott Adams (creator of Dilbert) gets a lot of material from....


Sam






Iamsemisweet -> RE: How would you do if you took a standardized test today? (12/6/2011 1:28:09 PM)

I was a National Merit scholar and kicked ASS on the LSAT. With my grades, a good LSAT score was the only way I could get into law school.   And yet, when I tried to help my kids prepare for their standardized tests, I found it was a little beyond me.  I like to think that if I had brushed up, I could have done it, though.




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