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RE: James Hansen ... follow the money? - 11/21/2011 3:21:22 PM   
subapplicant


Posts: 68
Joined: 9/19/2005
Status: offline 		A question for the climate alarmists - those who believe that the earth is warming catastrophically, and man is the cause - what solutions do you propose?

I am not a scientist. But I am someone who would be impacted by any major policy proposal. That gives me the right to question.

If you say that we should have a major tax on energy use in this country, with all of the negative impact on the economy - then I am damn well going to question everything about your position.

So - what is your proposed solution?

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: James Hansen ... follow the money? - 11/21/2011 3:23:08 PM   
DomKen


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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

I'm not sure (well, yeah I am) why some seem to be addressing something other than the issues I asked about.

Firm



And why in their derails persist in the lie that GW is what is doubted, rather than AGW.

Oh...I know why. They are fucking liars.

All right then smart guy what factor not man made has caused this effect? And why does the massive increase in the quantity of GHG in our atmosphere not have an effect on the climate?


I dont know. Neither do you, neither does anyone else. More importantly, nobody has demonstrated that they do.

So you're demanding we ignore compelling evidence that the climate is warming and that the only variable that has changed is the amount of GHG in the atmosphere? Why? What sense does your position have?


Because the climate warmed and cooled long before there were GHGs and there are periods of negative correlation between GHGs and temperature rise for some periods. What sense does your position have?

There were never a period on earth before GHG and no one ever said GHG was the only variable that could drive climate change only that none of those other variables appears to be behind this change.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: James Hansen ... follow the money? - 11/21/2011 3:25:29 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subapplicant

A question for the climate alarmists - those who believe that the earth is warming catastrophically, and man is the cause - what solutions do you propose?

I am not a scientist. But I am someone who would be impacted by any major policy proposal. That gives me the right to question.

If you say that we should have a major tax on energy use in this country, with all of the negative impact on the economy - then I am damn well going to question everything about your position.

So - what is your proposed solution?

Who said we could fix it? In the short term it is already too late. In the long term we simply must reduce the amount of GHG we release into the atmosphere drastically. Maybe our great great great great grandchildren will survive to see a return to conditions more amenable to our civilization.

(in reply to subapplicant)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: James Hansen ... follow the money? - 11/21/2011 3:29:55 PM   
subapplicant


Posts: 68
Joined: 9/19/2005
Status: offline 		You dodged the question.

HOW do you propose reducing greenhouse gas emissions?

"We just have to" is not a response.

All I care about is the policy implications. If you tell me there is nothing to be done, then I'll move along. Why fight over the science if you don't propose a policy solution.

What concrete policy would you advocate to start meeting your objective in the next year? Five years?

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: James Hansen ... follow the money? - 11/21/2011 3:39:04 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: subapplicant

A question for the climate alarmists - those who believe that the earth is warming catastrophically, and man is the cause - what solutions do you propose?

I am not a scientist. But I am someone who would be impacted by any major policy proposal. That gives me the right to question.

If you say that we should have a major tax on energy use in this country, with all of the negative impact on the economy - then I am damn well going to question everything about your position.

So - what is your proposed solution?

Who said we could fix it? In the short term it is already too late. In the long term we simply must reduce the amount of GHG we release into the atmosphere drastically. Maybe our great great great great grandchildren will survive to see a return to conditions more amenable to our civilization.


Or maybe our great great great great grandchildren will suffer through times where its too fucking cold to grow anything in most of the world again.


_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: James Hansen ... follow the money? - 11/21/2011 4:54:54 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subapplicant

You dodged the question.

HOW do you propose reducing greenhouse gas emissions?

"We just have to" is not a response.

All I care about is the policy implications. If you tell me there is nothing to be done, then I'll move along. Why fight over the science if you don't propose a policy solution.

What concrete policy would you advocate to start meeting your objective in the next year? Five years?

Cease all subsidies and tax incentives on fossil fuels and diverting all that money to development of sustainable energy production seems a reasonable starting place.


(in reply to subapplicant)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: James Hansen ... follow the money? - 11/21/2011 4:56:49 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: subapplicant

A question for the climate alarmists - those who believe that the earth is warming catastrophically, and man is the cause - what solutions do you propose?

I am not a scientist. But I am someone who would be impacted by any major policy proposal. That gives me the right to question.

If you say that we should have a major tax on energy use in this country, with all of the negative impact on the economy - then I am damn well going to question everything about your position.

So - what is your proposed solution?

Who said we could fix it? In the short term it is already too late. In the long term we simply must reduce the amount of GHG we release into the atmosphere drastically. Maybe our great great great great grandchildren will survive to see a return to conditions more amenable to our civilization.


Or maybe our great great great great grandchildren will suffer through times where its too fucking cold to grow anything in most of the world again.


See BEST's results.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 11/21/2011 4:57:15 PM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: James Hansen ... follow the money? - 11/21/2011 7:06:59 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: subapplicant

A question for the climate alarmists - those who believe that the earth is warming catastrophically, and man is the cause - what solutions do you propose?

I am not a scientist. But I am someone who would be impacted by any major policy proposal. That gives me the right to question.

If you say that we should have a major tax on energy use in this country, with all of the negative impact on the economy - then I am damn well going to question everything about your position.

So - what is your proposed solution?

Who said we could fix it? In the short term it is already too late. In the long term we simply must reduce the amount of GHG we release into the atmosphere drastically. Maybe our great great great great grandchildren will survive to see a return to conditions more amenable to our civilization.


Or maybe our great great great great grandchildren will suffer through times where its too fucking cold to grow anything in most of the world again.


See BEST's results.


Why dont you quote the BEST's results re the little ice age.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: James Hansen ... follow the money? - 11/21/2011 8:26:33 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Get this through your thick skull, your guys funded by your sides money found the planet is warming. That debate is simply over.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: James Hansen ... follow the money? - 11/21/2011 8:30:22 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subapplicant

A question for the climate alarmists - those who believe that the earth is warming catastrophically, and man is the cause - what solutions do you propose?

I am not a scientist. But I am someone who would be impacted by any major policy proposal. That gives me the right to question.

If you say that we should have a major tax on energy use in this country, with all of the negative impact on the economy - then I am damn well going to question everything about your position.

So - what is your proposed solution?
Local sustainable agriculture.


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to subapplicant)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: James Hansen ... follow the money? - 11/21/2011 9:22:34 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Get this through your thick skull, your guys funded by your sides money found the planet is warming. That debate is simply over.


Get this through your fucking head, no one has said that it isnt. That isnt a debate. And you know it, so stop with the strawmen.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: James Hansen ... follow the money? - 11/21/2011 9:36:02 PM   
InvisibleBlack


Posts: 865
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: subapplicant

A question for the climate alarmists - those who believe that the earth is warming catastrophically, and man is the cause - what solutions do you propose?

I am not a scientist. But I am someone who would be impacted by any major policy proposal. That gives me the right to question.

If you say that we should have a major tax on energy use in this country, with all of the negative impact on the economy - then I am damn well going to question everything about your position.

So - what is your proposed solution?

Who said we could fix it? In the short term it is already too late. In the long term we simply must reduce the amount of GHG we release into the atmosphere drastically. Maybe our great great great great grandchildren will survive to see a return to conditions more amenable to our civilization.


Or maybe our great great great great grandchildren will suffer through times where its too fucking cold to grow anything in most of the world again.


See BEST's results.


The link you posted is a summary of the study by someone other than the person who conducted it. Do you have a link to the actual study?

Also, even the summary does not claim that the rise in temperature has anything to do with green house gasses or human activity.



_____________________________

Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.

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RE: James Hansen ... follow the money? - 11/22/2011 12:00:27 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct
And even folks that were originally skeptical have concluded that there is a warming taking place due to anthropogenic sources.

Nope. I have known about the warming up since the 1990s because in that decade I had a neighbor who studied meteorology.

Sure, I accept global warming. But no: I am not at all convinced that the increase in temperature is due to anthropological causes. And even if it is, so what? An increase in temperature will cause an increase in evaporation and thus an increase in rainfall, and an increase in rainfall will cause the deserts to become green again and will cause plants to grow faster, as will an increase in carbon dioxide cause plants to grow faster. Polar regions will become habitable. All good, I would say. The only drawback is that all kinds of poisonous snakes and arthopods will invade northern Europe; I hear that England already has multiple infestations of the Australian redback spider.

(in reply to samboct)
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RE: James Hansen ... follow the money? - 11/22/2011 6:38:09 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack
The link you posted is a summary of the study by someone other than the person who conducted it. Do you have a link to the actual study?

Also, even the summary does not claim that the rise in temperature has anything to do with green house gasses or human activity.

All the data and all the studies
http://berkeleyearth.org/

(in reply to InvisibleBlack)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: James Hansen ... follow the money? - 11/22/2011 6:39:41 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Get this through your thick skull, your guys funded by your sides money found the planet is warming. That debate is simply over.


Get this through your fucking head, no one has said that it isnt. That isnt a debate. And you know it, so stop with the strawmen.

Then precisely what did you mean by your crack about "little ice age?"

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: James Hansen ... follow the money? - 11/22/2011 7:06:18 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


What does a leftist want to discuss

Anything but the actual topic, because they cant win with that

...how the rightest are so in love with a profit that the environment similar to society at large can be damned and are here...to serve me and those profit interests.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: James Hansen ... follow the money? - 11/22/2011 10:58:10 AM   
subapplicant


Posts: 68
Joined: 9/19/2005
Status: offline 		I'm curious: is there something that all people on this post can agree to? Specifically, I am referring to total transparency on all scientific research regarding global warming.

One complaint that skeptics have is that underlying data and associated computer code underlying research is unavailable. This reduces the ability to have people confirm or dispute the findings.

Do the alarmists on this post agree to aggressive transparency? And since that does not exist now, the skeptics have ammunition to criticize the process?

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: James Hansen ... follow the money? - 11/22/2011 2:08:53 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subapplicant

I'm curious: is there something that all people on this post can agree to? Specifically, I am referring to total transparency on all scientific research regarding global warming.

One complaint that skeptics have is that underlying data and associated computer code underlying research is unavailable. This reduces the ability to have people confirm or dispute the findings.

Do the alarmists on this post agree to aggressive transparency? And since that does not exist now, the skeptics have ammunition to criticize the process?

The data is available for anything published in a peer reviewed journal. BEST, a group of denialists, just finished reviewing all the data from the major networks of reporting stations for instance.

Although clearly some demands by denialists are simply meant to inconvenience or harass the scientists and are rightfully ignored.

(in reply to subapplicant)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: James Hansen ... follow the money? - 11/22/2011 2:41:31 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subapplicant

I'm curious: is there something that all people on this post can agree to? Specifically, I am referring to total transparency on all scientific research regarding global warming.

One complaint that skeptics have is that underlying data and associated computer code underlying research is unavailable. This reduces the ability to have people confirm or dispute the findings.

Do the alarmists on this post agree to aggressive transparency? And since that does not exist now, the skeptics have ammunition to criticize the process?


5000 new East Anglia emails should provide some more transparency.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to subapplicant)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: James Hansen ... follow the money? - 11/22/2011 3:06:12 PM   
subapplicant


Posts: 68
Joined: 9/19/2005
Status: offline 		I am glad that you agree that transparency is necessary. However, it is not true that all data and methods underlying global warming academic research is readily available.

Can you point me to the website that has Mann's hockey stick data AND computer program? Have you heard about the multiple FOIA requests that have been turned down regarding Jones's urban heat island effect paper?

This is a matter of important public policy decisions, if the alarmists have their way.

Why not make it available to the public?

Perhaps you are comfortable relying on the word of priests - sorry, I meant scientists. But in a matter of important public policy, just saying trust the experts is not enough.

Open up all of the files associated with the academic research. Post them online. Let the skeptics rip it apart - and then rip the skeptics arguments apart.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 40
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