RE: Living, & Dying, In Our Capitalist Society (Full Version)

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Moonhead -> RE: Living, & Dying, In Our Capitalist Society (10/24/2011 4:44:53 PM)

Haven't a few people been taken to court because they broke somebody's ribs doing cpr? Maybe the manager was worried about the company getting sued and didn't want anybody taking any action until whoever had done the medical course in that department was back on hand.



JstAnotherSub -> RE: Living, & Dying, In Our Capitalist Society (10/24/2011 5:29:55 PM)

I have no idea, but, if I was in the position to save a life, being sued would be the last thing on my mind.



slvemike4u -> RE: Living, & Dying, In Our Capitalist Society (10/24/2011 5:40:41 PM)

Didn't someone point out in an earlier post that Ohio has a good Samaritan law...the purpose of such laws is to specifically shield anyone acting as a good Samaritan to incur any adverse risk of being sued as a result of trying to help.
IIRC most of those laws are dependent of the Samaritan being certified at some level to perform the act(such as CPR) in question .



FirstQuaker -> RE: Living, & Dying, In Our Capitalist Society (10/24/2011 6:11:28 PM)

Those "good Samaritan" laws only protect people from criminal liability and in some cases some lawsuits, and  what some business thinks regarding your future employment after you deliver a baby or foil a holdup on company time is another story.



slvemike4u -> RE: Living, & Dying, In Our Capitalist Society (10/24/2011 6:15:56 PM)

FQ any Corp.and or business that would object to an employee lending assistance in such a situation would have one he'll of a PR issue were they to try to discipline said employee.
The Supreme Court has ruled copr are citizens as far as the right to engage in the political process.....doesn't some responsibility to act as good citizens follow ?



FirstQuaker -> RE: Living, & Dying, In Our Capitalist Society (10/24/2011 6:38:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

FQ any Corp.and or business that would object to an employee lending assistance in such a situation would have one he'll of a PR issue were they to try to discipline said employee.
The Supreme Court has ruled copr are citizens as far as the right to engage in the political process.....doesn't some responsibility to act as good citizens follow ?


I agree that is the way it should work, but the news are filled with such things, (I mentioned a baby, and overpowering a robber, as those were two of the more recent incidences where someone was fired for such events.)

You even have public employees fired for purportedly saving the lives of police officers trapped out in a storm by allowing them aboard a school  bus he was operating.-

Bus Driver, George Daw, Fired For Saving 3 Police Officers -- Gets Job Back!
quote:

But in a case like Daw's, the decision ultimately rests with his employer. New York state does have established wrongful termination laws, and Daw says that he is hoping to be reinstated. But he also says that he holds out little hope. When approached for comment about the incident by CBS News, Educational Bus had no comment.



And having to have the public get involved.




thishereboi -> RE: Living, & Dying, In Our Capitalist Society (10/24/2011 6:43:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

I have no idea, but, if I was in the position to save a life, being sued would be the last thing on my mind.


Yea, I have to agree with you on that. Now I might be concerned that the boss would fire me for telling him to fuck off after he told me to stop. But probibly not until the adrenalin stopped flowing and the emts had arrived.


DYB...how would a single payer system stop the supervisor from being an ass?



thishereboi -> RE: Living, & Dying, In Our Capitalist Society (10/24/2011 6:44:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Didn't someone point out in an earlier post that Ohio has a good Samaritan law...the purpose of such laws is to specifically shield anyone acting as a good Samaritan to incur any adverse risk of being sued as a result of trying to help.
IIRC most of those laws are dependent of the Samaritan being certified at some level to perform the act(such as CPR) in question .


I think they do, but I doubt I would have cared in that situation if they didn't.



FirmhandKY -> RE: Living, & Dying, In Our Capitalist Society (10/24/2011 6:48:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

DYB...how would a single payer system stop the supervisor from being an ass?

The same way that an idiot super at one company is an indictment of the free enterprise system, and proves that all corporation are evil, facist, scum-sucking lamprey eels.

In other words, no connection at all.  [8D]

Firm



erieangel -> RE: Living, & Dying, In Our Capitalist Society (10/24/2011 6:48:42 PM)

Firm, I commend companies like that.  But even you must admit that more and more the largest corporations are behaving in a manner that says they care little for their workers--be it corporate policy or the thoughts of some of the higher up--they don't care.



FirmhandKY -> RE: Living, & Dying, In Our Capitalist Society (10/24/2011 6:59:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Firm, I commend companies like that.  But even you must admit that more and more the largest corporations are behaving in a manner that says they care little for their workers--be it corporate policy or the thoughts of some of the higher up--they don't care.

erie,

Is there anything other than "a feeling" that says this?  I believe it is just the opposite, actually.

Which doesn't excuse the ones that have, or do, at all.

I think the first major problem is "crony capitalism", which can only be broken in the nexus between government and big business.

Also, I think you may be confusing the issues between "outsourcing" and "how some companies treat their employees".  Those are not necessarily the same issue. 

As far as the loss of benefits, such as health care and pensions, it's a more complicated issue, but the basis comes down again to the over interference of government regulations, and crony capitalism.

All of this is a complex subject, and the above are just vague summaries of issues that all require a lot of thought, analysis et al, but the greatest reason for some of the crap we have seen over the years is over-zealousness of government, and a lack of understanding of how to effectively apply government regulation and oversight in other cases.

In other words, many politicians and makers of regulations do not understand the capitalist or free-market system and their laws and regulations have deleterious long-term effects, regardless of the "stated intent" (unintended consequences), and more of the problems are created by some industries and companies being "in control" of too much of the system as well.

It's a bitch to be able to make the right calls about which is which, sometimes.

Firm



tweakabelle -> RE: Living, & Dying, In Our Capitalist Society (10/24/2011 7:44:51 PM)

quote:

DYB...how would a single payer system stop the supervisor from being an ass?


Where there are universal healthcare systems, the kind of legal difficulties that seem to surround these issues in the USA simply don't arise. There is still a legal right to sue for negligent or incompetent service from service providers but the kind of paranoia about legal liabilities that seem evident in this case is totally alien here.

What I do fail to see is any connection between the looney right mantra of "Government over-regulation is bad" and this case. Is the suggestion that altering/removing regulations would cause supervisors such as the particular doozey in this case to act with a modicum of consideration for their employees? I can't see any evidence to support that. Just another wild unsubstantiated assertion of an ideological claim the looney right believes with religious fervor even though the evidence has repeatedly demonstrated this claim to be false.



tazzygirl -> RE: Living, & Dying, In Our Capitalist Society (10/24/2011 7:54:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Firm, I commend companies like that.  But even you must admit that more and more the largest corporations are behaving in a manner that says they care little for their workers--be it corporate policy or the thoughts of some of the higher up--they don't care.


The problem will come in that the company stopped someone who was trained to help, and willing, from doing so at the threat of losing their job.



tazzygirl -> RE: Living, & Dying, In Our Capitalist Society (10/24/2011 8:15:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

Those "good Samaritan" laws only protect people from criminal liability and in some cases some lawsuits, and  what some business thinks regarding your future employment after you deliver a baby or foil a holdup on company time is another story.


The problem is that each state is different.

Good Samaritan Laws

Good Samaritan Laws are designed to encourage people to help without fear of being sued.
Good Samaritan Laws state that a person cannot be held liable for damage if they were acting to the best of their abilities and were not negligent.
Negligence is essentially doing something that is blatantly wrong, or not doing something that is blatantly right.
Good Samaritan Laws are not in effect in every state, so be sure to find out what the law is in your area.

Reasons to stop CPR

You don't have to start CPR (unless you work for an agency required to by law, for example an ambulance service), but once you start, there are only certain reasons you can stop without risking charges of abandonment.
CPR may be stopped if the victim's pulse and respirations return.
You may stop if someone else takes over.
You may stop if you are too exhausted to continue.
You may stop if you are alone and must leave to get help. In this case, you must return to the victim.

http://www.u.arizona.edu/~lowe/cpr.htm

As I said, each state is different.

However, I do know once it starts, it cannot be stopped just because someone says so, unless that someone is medically trained and licensed... in other words... someone with CPR training alone may stop once medical personnel arrive.



FirmhandKY -> RE: Living, & Dying, In Our Capitalist Society (10/24/2011 8:16:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Firm, I commend companies like that.  But even you must admit that more and more the largest corporations are behaving in a manner that says they care little for their workers--be it corporate policy or the thoughts of some of the higher up--they don't care.


The problem will come in that the company stopped someone who was trained to help, and willing, from doing so at the threat of losing their job.

Sounds to me like a multimillion dollar settlement is just waiting to be had ... [:)]

Firm



tazzygirl -> RE: Living, & Dying, In Our Capitalist Society (10/24/2011 8:42:00 PM)

Exactly Firm. The family will probably go after the deep pockets of all involved... and rightly so.



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