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Telomeres - 10/5/2011 2:56:47 AM   
DeviantlyD


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Status: offline 		I'm expecting this thread to die a quick death, but I still can't help hoping I'll be surprised. :)

The following is an awesome article about telomeres. One of my classmates in school did her research project on this subject and I've had an interest for it ever since. :) I can't help think that if they can resolve the issue of telomere shortening, the fountain of youth can't be far behind. Of course there are numerous other factors involved. But still...the promise of this type of study is very exciting. At least for me it is. ;) Can you imagine living 1000 years??? (Please don't bring up the bit about the world being over-crowded, etc., etc. This whole thing is fantasy at this point. What I'm addressing are the exciting possibilities in and of themselves and not the undesired consequences of an overpopulated world.)

http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/begin/traits/telomeres/

< Message edited by DeviantlyD -- 10/5/2011 2:59:12 AM >

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RE: Telomeres - 10/5/2011 6:28:06 AM   
Marc2b


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RE: Telomeres - 10/5/2011 7:06:07 AM   
Hillwilliam


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RE: Telomeres - 10/5/2011 7:35:49 AM   
Endivius


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Status: offline 		Until the 0 phase of cell reproduction can be controlled to stem the speed of cellular degredation it is unlikely to matter.

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RE: Telomeres - 10/5/2011 9:24:40 AM   
ProlificNeeds


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Status: offline 		I immediately thought of Resident Evil. Didn't they start the study of some age defying drug and it resulted in ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE?!?!

Zoooombiiiieeeessss

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RE: Telomeres - 10/6/2011 12:39:58 AM   
DeviantlyD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Endivius

Until the 0 phase of cell reproduction can be controlled to stem the speed of cellular degredation it is unlikely to matter.


Are you talking about the G0 phase? It's a stasis phase. Nothing changes. How can that be bad? If that phase ends up being a precursor to apoptosis, well, there is evidence in telomere research that suggests that shortened telomeres will signal cell apoptosis.

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RE: Telomeres - 10/6/2011 4:40:20 AM   
Endivius


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Status: offline 		Basically, that's exactly the dillema. Pretend for a second you could provide telomerase proteins into a cell to sustain the life expectancy of the telomeres, the problem remains that eventually it will lead to apoptosis without constant "refills". This in turn leads to other cellular abnormalities, such as cell atrophy. The biggest problem, is that even if you could find a way to maintain telomeres in a cell, it takes away from the need for cells to die naturally from apoptosis. I don't remember the numbers from college but, it's something like a few billion cells die every day to apoptosis naturally. It's neccessary for human development up to a point. And if you deny cell apoptosis they can become cancerous.




Edit : Type-o

< Message edited by Endivius -- 10/6/2011 4:48:15 AM >

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RE: Telomeres - 10/6/2011 8:18:52 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		Interesting but not yet time to start the party.

First of all the other factors must be eliminatated. By that I mean the deficiencies that actually do kill may people. As I have said before, deficiencies do not cause all diseases, but there is NO DOUBT that if you are deficient in an essential nutrient you WILL develop a disease. We actually don't know if these telomeres could be "recharged" somehow with an absolutely optimum diet. And if so, whether by diet or drugs it is not likely to ever hit the mass market. Imagine this planet woth three times the population and you can easily see why.

There is a flaw in the article but not a fatal one :

"Human lifespan has increased considerably since the 1600s, when the average lifespan was 30 years. By 1998, the average U.S. life expectancy was 76. The reasons included sewers and other sanitation measures, antibiotics, clean water, refrigeration, vaccines and other medical efforts to prevent children and babies from dying, improved diets and better health care."

Human lifespan has increaed because of a few things, sanitation which reduces the spread of disease, modern medical practices which save those who would have died due to injuries and the newfound curability of certain very infectuos diseases. Beyond that we are working backward. In other words people are dying of different things. It used to be a sword in the chest or the plague, now it is a lack of nutrients in the diet, or too much sugar or who knows what else. It is NOT better diet I mean. This is what seriously affects the quality of life in the olders. Evidences available on request.

The AVERAGE life expectancy, that includes people who drank hemlock, went out on horses with swords, lived in the bilge of a ship, had shit blow up in their face and all kinds of other things. And actually there is the question of what we call life. If these telomeres could be restored guaranteeing my life to 150, I wouldn't even want it. I think I'll be lucky to die even halfway healthy because it is getting harder and harder. In the search for profits the food is getting worse and almost every time I go into the grocery store, I find something else that I will no longer eat. This keeps up I might starve. Starve to death at 150, no thanks.

And really, how many of us intend to die of old age, even at a very advanced age ?

T^T

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RE: Telomeres - 10/6/2011 8:21:17 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		"And if you deny cell apoptosis they can become cancerous. "

Why don't the new cells have fresh telomeres ?

T^T

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RE: Telomeres - 10/6/2011 10:31:27 PM   
DeviantlyD


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Status: offline 		The answer to your question is in the article I linked. *sigh*

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RE: Telomeres - 10/6/2011 10:51:09 PM   
DeviantlyD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Endivius

Basically, that's exactly the dillema. Pretend for a second you could provide telomerase proteins into a cell to sustain the life expectancy of the telomeres, the problem remains that eventually it will lead to apoptosis without constant "refills". This in turn leads to other cellular abnormalities, such as cell atrophy. The biggest problem, is that even if you could find a way to maintain telomeres in a cell, it takes away from the need for cells to die naturally from apoptosis. I don't remember the numbers from college but, it's something like a few billion cells die every day to apoptosis naturally. It's neccessary for human development up to a point. And if you deny cell apoptosis they can become cancerous.




Edit : Type-o


How are you going to have cell atrophy if the telomeres are extended via telomerase?

As long as all of the components of a cell are faithfully reproduced, there is no "need" for cells to die.

In the journal "Biochemistry and Cell Biology", there is a published article which states "mounting evidence indicates that the maintenance of telomere integrity and telomerase protect cells from apoptosis."

I don't really agree with your last statement. Cancer doesn't arise because a cell is denied apoptosis. Apoptosis is denied when a cell becomes cancerous. And cells become cancerous due to an altered state. From what I've read, there is a concern that extending the life of telomeres could trigger malignancies in cells, but it seems this research still has much further study before there could be any application in the real world. It's the potential that is exciting. :)


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RE: Telomeres - 10/6/2011 11:05:42 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		"The answer to your question is in the article I linked. *sigh*"

No, that is actually a valid question, you are not seeing it that way.

Now think this. They said cetain cells do not undergo telomere degradation. Waht type of cells ?

Now, what type of cells in the body do not get cancer ?

T^T

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RE: Telomeres - 10/6/2011 11:11:42 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		" don't really agree with your last statement. Cancer doesn't arise because a cell is denied apoptosis. Apoptosis is denied when a cell becomes cancerous."

That is one of the different and interesting things about this whole thing. It's a different perspective.

If they prove some shit this may cause me to change my opinion. If so :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c6X1fcDRwM

T^T

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RE: Telomeres - 10/6/2011 11:28:40 PM   
DeviantlyD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"The answer to your question is in the article I linked. *sigh*"

No, that is actually a valid question, you are not seeing it that way.


You asked why the "new" cells don't have fresh telomeres. If you understood how cellular division works, you would see the answer is plainly in the article I posted and the central issue to research into telomeres. Each cell division loses base pairs from the telomere sequence. So with "new" cells, and less telomerase, the telomere sequence shortens to the point where the cell is no longer able to divide. It's all right there in the article.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Now think this. They said cetain cells do not undergo telomere degradation.

T^T


Where does it say that?


P.S. There was no fatal flaw in the article.


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RE: Telomeres - 10/6/2011 11:29:59 PM   
DeviantlyD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

" don't really agree with your last statement. Cancer doesn't arise because a cell is denied apoptosis. Apoptosis is denied when a cell becomes cancerous."

That is one of the different and interesting things about this whole thing. It's a different perspective.

If they prove some shit this may cause me to change my opinion. If so :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c6X1fcDRwM

T^T



I can't even respond here because you're not making any sense.

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RE: Telomeres - 10/6/2011 11:59:19 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		"Where does it say that? "


"Telomerase remains active in sperm and eggs, which are passed from one generation to the next. If reproductive cells did not have telomerase to maintain the length of their telomeres, any organism with such cells soon would go extinct."

OK then. The words mean someting different in your language. Fine, perhaps we can rectify that some milennia.

"As a cell begins to become cancerous, it divides more often, and its telomeres become very short. If its telomeres get too short, the cell may die. It can escape this fate by becoming a cancer cell and activating an enzyme called telomerase, which prevents the telomeres from getting even shorter. "

Nothing of the sort. You know that is my fucking problem I guess. I learned to read in the 1960s. Prevents the telomeres from getting shorter. What do those words mean ?

"I can't even respond here because you're not making any sense."

I guess not to you at least, better you didn't then.

If I understood about something ? That fucking amazes me. I'm off to hulu or something to get some better comedy, if I can find it.

T^T


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RE: Telomeres - 10/7/2011 12:14:06 AM   
tj444


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Status: offline 		I think living longer will be a combination of various advances, discoveries, techniques,.. As it is, more and more people are living to be 100+... In fact, some seniors are still working (cuz they want to, not have to) at 100 or even older.. which is quite amazing..

but humans being humans, some (many?) will counteract advances by doing things like smoking, eating improperly, not exercising, being couch taters, not reducing stress, etc. Unless they also invent a magic pill for obesity,.. well,... imo, that is the risk that is growing the most and one of the most dangerous and preventive..

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RE: Telomeres - 10/7/2011 12:18:08 AM   
DeviantlyD


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Status: offline 		I agree with you on that point. ;)

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RE: Telomeres - 10/7/2011 12:26:39 AM   
DeviantlyD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

They said cetain cells do not undergo telomere degradation. Waht type of cells ?

T^T



quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


"Telomerase remains active in sperm and eggs, which are passed from one generation to the next. If reproductive cells did not have telomerase to maintain the length of their telomeres, any organism with such cells soon would go extinct."


T^T


Then why are you asking what kind of cells??? You just answered your own freakin' question. Sheesh!!

And just as an aside, reproductive cells eventually lose the ability and die. They don't last forever.





quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"As a cell begins to become cancerous, it divides more often, and its telomeres become very short. If its telomeres get too short, the cell may die. It can escape this fate by becoming a cancer cell and activating an enzyme called telomerase, which prevents the telomeres from getting even shorter. "

Nothing of the sort. You know that is my fucking problem I guess. I learned to read in the 1960s. Prevents the telomeres from getting shorter. What do those words mean ?


T^T


I guess you have to understand a little bit about molecular biology. The answer is obvious if you do. Telomerase is an enzyme that attaches more base pairs to the telomere chain. In fact, it states that bit of info in the article I linked.

"An enzyme named telomerase adds bases to the ends of telomeres. In young cells, telomerase keeps telomeres from wearing down too much. But as cells divide repeatedly, there is not enough telomerase, so the telomeres grow shorter and the cells age."


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RE: Telomeres - 10/7/2011 1:51:38 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		So the process may not be unstoppable but might be decellerated with the proper techniques. Hmmm, heard that somewhere.

Now just how would one go about doing that ? Well they can already manipulate DNA, even build it, so what's the problem ? Get on with it and we can all live to be 199 years old. BUT, there is one problem. People now who age normally die because of illness, more than half the time brought on by environment, either something they got in the environment or something they DIDN'T.

So these 100 year olds are going to be rolling around in their power scooters, blind, unable to hear or speak, or walk or take care of normal bodily functions, oblivious to the world around them but they will look 25.

Cellular degeneration is NOT the only aspect of aging.

Now some of my people trend not to accelerate our metabolism, and as a result some really do appear younger and actually in some ways are healthier than their normal counterparts. However none of us are immune to anyhting and there are heart attacks and so forth. These are caused and they are not caused by aging. In fact your article specifically alludes to the fact that heart disease is not under the scope of what they are asserting, like those few other "invisible" things.

If people did not artificially accelerate their metbolic rate, this cellular decay would be irrelevant. But people generally eat about four times the food they need and are lucky if they can shit it all out. The rest get fat. And the food is so fucked up that fat people are usually malnourished. This has been known for decades. You know that stevia, that new organic sweetener that hasn't yet been approved ? It's been around since 1979 !

So back to the cells. You can do what you want for the cells and that is all fine and good. But if a person is not properly nourished it is a waste of time.

And that is that.

T^T

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