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RE: Folks what do you think about the fact that medical... - 9/20/2011 9:28:05 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

All necessary medical care should be covered under a non-profit single-payer system.

How do we prevent a spiral of fraud, increasingly burdensome regulations, and ever-increasing costs, along with maintaining the quality of services?

My question isn't a snark. I'd like to see the health care system in the US work for everybody, but I'm far from persuaded that single-payer is the way to do that.

Nationalization might be the only way to go, but that raises a whole host of other large concerns. If the cure leaves you worse off than the disease would have, maybe it is best not to go tinkering.

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RE: Folks what do you think about the fact that medical... - 9/20/2011 11:25:07 PM

tazzygirl

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Single payor could go along way of preventing alot of fraud, Rich. Double and triple billing would be a thing of the past. Whats allowed, deductibles and the such would no longer b questionable and errors would be immediately spotted. Dr shopping, multiple duplicate tests and prescriptions would also be quickly flagged.

As far as costs.,, just on the billing end it would be cheaper. One set of rules and regs to keep up with, paperwork and computer time, as well as billing errors would be decreased.

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RE: Folks what do you think about the fact that medical... - 9/21/2011 4:56:52 AM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

How do we prevent a spiral of fraud, increasingly burdensome regulations, and ever-increasing costs, along with maintaining the quality of services?

You put money into the fraud investigation area. Just like a few years ago when their budget was increased for fraud in Medicare, they were able to stop or recover almost ten times their budget. Severe penalties for fraud, including going after personal assets.

quote:

My question isn't a snark. I'd like to see the health care system in the US work for everybody, but I'm far from persuaded that single-payer is the way to do that.

Single payer would only work with the right tools in place. I believe that along with that, people should be able to buy supplemental insurance to handle the "extras".

quote:

Nationalization might be the only way to go, but that raises a whole host of other large concerns. If the cure leaves you worse off than the disease would have, maybe it is best not to go tinkering.

The sad fact is that the American taxpayer would likely accept it being handled just like many other government projects. Extreme oversight and accountability is needed across the board. Remove the corporate interest from areas that are not trade related. Our system is becoming more and more ripe for the temptation of corruption.

It will require the American voter to set aside the differences between the idealogies and start voting out each and every politician that handles things as "business as usual". If you look there really are no new ideas to handle many things in the US, just variations on the same themes. Any time that fingers get pointed to much at the politicians or the corporations that pull their strings, something is done to cause a distraction and divide.

When I see hard working people, that cannot afford health insurance losing toes, being hospitalized for untreated severe conditions, and many other ailments that could be prevented, it changed my view on how to handle these things.

I keep mentioning this, but a medicaid clinic should be built beside or close to every ER, so that the non-emergency medical conditions can be handled in a lower cost environment.

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Post #: 23

RE: Folks what do you think about the fact that medical... - 9/21/2011 6:08:30 AM

lobodomslavery

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it is a card that is given to those who are below a certain level of income and who do not have private medical insurance as they cannot afford it, it entitles them to a restricted level of medical care in lieu of cash
kevin

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 24

RE: Folks what do you think about the fact that medical... - 9/21/2011 6:14:16 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

it is a card that is given to those who are below a certain level of income and who do not have private medical insurance as they cannot afford it, it entitles them to a restricted level of medical care in lieu of cash
kevin

Interesting. So those who don't have private insurance (and presumably employer-provided insurance) and are below a certain income level then are allowed to get a minimal level of health care.

One of the many things about health care in the US is that there was little to no research conducted into health care systems in other countries and their pros and cons. It's a little late, but I'd like to know more about how it works elsewhere.

Next question, kevin - I assume that the card system was implemented when times were flush in Ireland. How has the program been modified now that the boom's gone bust?

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Post #: 25

RE: Folks what do you think about the fact that medical... - 9/21/2011 6:34:12 AM

defiantbadgirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

it is a card that is given to those who are below a certain level of income and who do not have private medical insurance as they cannot afford it, it entitles them to a restricted level of medical care in lieu of cash
kevin

How does marriage affect that? Does marriage make one ineligible for the card? In the US, most help for people with low income is based on the federal poverty level, which is outdated and very unfair. One person is allowed to make over $10,000/yr but for additional household members, regardless of age (could be spouse or child), the poverty level is increased less than $4,000.
If two people live together without being married in most US states, they aren't considered in the same household. As a result of the unfair way the federal poverty level is calculated, some couples are forced to divorce or watch their sick child die.

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(in reply to lobodomslavery)

Post #: 26

RE: Folks what do you think about the fact that medical... - 9/21/2011 7:48:19 AM

lobodomslavery

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Lets put it like this if your partner is working and is earning a level of income above the threshold which isnt very high something like $10,000 annually, you wouldnt qualify, it is totally unfair, how can you consider people of above $10,000 well to do and capable of affording private health care, you cant and they arent but thats the system, it is only if both together , this is my understanding anyhow have income of less than $10,000 annually would the couple qualify for a medical card, like i say totally unfair and totally unfair that the people MOST in need of health care are DENIED it because of lack of money, ie they cant pay for it so the State doesnt provide for them, completely inequitable but our health care system is just that inequitable and dyfunctional
kevin

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 27

RE: Folks what do you think about the fact that medical... - 9/21/2011 9:27:26 AM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

Lets put it like this if your partner is working and is earning a level of income above the threshold which isnt very high something like $10,000 annually, you wouldnt qualify, it is totally unfair, how can you consider people of above $10,000 well to do and capable of affording private health care, you cant and they arent but thats the system, it is only if both together , this is my understanding anyhow have income of less than $10,000 annually would the couple qualify for a medical card, like i say totally unfair and totally unfair that the people MOST in need of health care are DENIED it because of lack of money, ie they cant pay for it so the State doesnt provide for them, completely inequitable but our health care system is just that inequitable and dyfunctional
kevin

Nobody should not have access to basic healthcare, but your characterization that people above $10,000 are considered "well to do" strikes me as a strawman. It sounds to me that they are considered capable of funding a certain level of their own care, not that they are "well to do".

I don't care for the "card" idea. I think a clinic model is far more cost effective.

_____________________________

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to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Post #: 28

RE: Folks what do you think about the fact that medical... - 9/21/2011 9:34:32 AM

lobodomslavery

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That s my exact point people who are just above the threshold meaning $15,000 for a single person and people who have families and mortgages to pay meaning say people of $20,000 say are not well to do, they are struggling to survive, so they should be entitled to the same range of medical care as those earning $100,000, and a medical card. But they are not by virtue of the fact that they are on income above the very small $10,000 level and by virtue of the fact that they cannot afford private health insurance. its arbitrary and unfair
kevin

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 29

RE: Folks what do you think about the fact that medical... - 9/21/2011 9:42:25 AM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

That s my exact point people who are just above the threshold meaning $15,000 for a single person and people who have families and mortgages to pay meaning say people of $20,000 say are not well to do, they are struggling to survive, so they should be entitled to the same range of medical care as those earning $100,000, and a medical card. But they are not by virtue of the fact that they are on income above the very small $10,000 level and by virtue of the fact that they cannot afford private health insurance. its arbitrary and unfair
kevin

Every income threshhold for any benefit can be considered "arbitrary and unfair", especially by people just above that threshhold. I don't know relative costs of living and health care there vs here. However, in US terms to say that someone earning $10,000 is "entitled" for free to the same level of healthcare that someone earning $100,000 can afford is socialized health care that many conservatives don't believe in.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
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to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Post #: 30

RE: Folks what do you think about the fact that medical... - 9/21/2011 9:48:25 AM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

of course,Willbr, the op was coming from a guy that thinks that prodommes should drop their rates to acommodate guys that are on the dole, at reduced pensions, etc, simply because it isnt FAIR!! :: picture this:: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nojWJ6-XmeQ

also, he's not in the US, so (although I dnt know this) the cost of living etc, may be different.

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Post #: 31

RE: Folks what do you think about the fact that medical... - 9/21/2011 10:35:06 AM

willbeurdaddy

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Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

of course,Willbr, the op was coming from a guy that thinks that prodommes should drop their rates to acommodate guys that are on the dole, at reduced pensions, etc, simply because it isnt FAIR!! :: picture this:: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nojWJ6-XmeQ

also, he's not in the US, so (although I dnt know this) the cost of living etc, may be different.

Yes, I mentioned the cost of living and health differences.

To your first point, Im sure that our pro-Dommes that support socialized medicine would be more than willing to give their services at a discount to the needy. I'll donate the "take a number" machine to keep the waiting list in order.

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Hear the lark
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to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Post #: 32

RE: Folks what do you think about the fact that medical... - 9/21/2011 10:36:16 AM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

of course,Willbr, the op was coming from a guy that thinks that prodommes should drop their rates to acommodate guys that are on the dole, at reduced pensions, etc, simply because it isnt FAIR!! :: picture this:: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nojWJ6-XmeQ

also, he's not in the US, so (although I dnt know this) the cost of living etc, may be different.

Yes, I mentioned the cost of living and health differences.

To your first point, Im sure that our pro-Dommes that support socialized medicine would be more than willing to give their services at a discount to the needy. I'll donate the "take a number" machine to keep the waiting list in order.

I think it should be done lottery style... LOL

_____________________________

polysnortatious
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(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 33

RE: Folks what do you think about the fact that medical... - 9/21/2011 11:09:23 AM

SternSkipper

Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
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quote:

No thats the Canadian bus that Obama used for the Magical Misery Tour.

The picture clearly shows you driving and AZBM as a passenger... quit pulling everyone's chain... especially the chain with the 38 handkerchiefs tied to them in serial.

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Post #: 34

RE: Folks what do you think about the fact that medical... - 9/21/2011 11:18:39 AM

SternSkipper

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quote:

I wont even tell you what else I had with the live sea urchin and live clam today. It would give you nightmares!

Well, I'm thinkin walrus oosic with the meat on... but that's just cause I feel like busting balls today.

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Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.

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Post #: 35

RE: Folks what do you think about the fact that medical... - 9/21/2011 11:27:28 AM

SternSkipper

Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
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quote:

Im sure that our pro-Dommes that support socialized medicine would be more than willing to give their services at a discount to the needy. I'll donate the "take a number" machine to keep the waiting list in order.

"ProDommes"... <tapping figures on desk in middle class frustration>... Yet again the middle class Dom falls through the cracks

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Post #: 36

RE: Folks what do you think about the fact that medical... - 9/21/2011 11:37:02 AM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

I wont even tell you what else I had with the live sea urchin and live clam today. It would give you nightmares!

Well, I'm thinkin walrus oosic with the meat on... but that's just cause I feel like busting balls today.

I'll put it in "code" so as not to invite Freddie Kreuger to her bed tonight. 4 amaebi, served in the traditional manner. :)

No oosik, I'll stick with the urchin gonads.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 9/21/2011 11:38:34 AM >

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Hear the lark
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Post #: 37

RE: Folks what do you think about the fact that medical... - 9/21/2011 3:30:40 PM

SternSkipper

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quote:

4 amaebi, served in the traditional manner. :)

Were they live?
In the years I go to RI to hit the Tuna with my friend Malcom, he always pulls out by the big cans in the shipping lane and we net a bunch live and he serves em on a plate with a Hypodermic (30ccs) full of a mixture of Vietnamese Chili Sauce and Wasabi paste... You use your thumb to knock their head off and then give em a fix of the sauce and suck their body out of the exoskeleton. It's a good idea to spit out the entrails also

_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.

Tinfoilers Swallow

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Post #: 38

RE: Folks what do you think about the fact that medical... - 9/21/2011 3:39:35 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

4 amaebi, served in the traditional manner. :)

Were they live?
In the years I go to RI to hit the Tuna with my friend Malcom, he always pulls out by the big cans in the shipping lane and we net a bunch live and he serves em on a plate with a Hypodermic (30ccs) full of a mixture of Vietnamese Chili Sauce and Wasabi paste... You use your thumb to knock their head off and then give em a fix of the sauce and suck their body out of the exoskeleton. It's a good idea to spit out the entrails also

Aylee, read the rest at your own peril!!!!!

Yes, the bodies (or whatever the right term is!) still twitching on the way down and the heads still fighting with each other when I finished. Too late to deep fry them though, had to get back to a conference call. Each with a quail egg and a pinch of wasabi.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 9/21/2011 3:41:55 PM >

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to SternSkipper)

Post #: 39

RE: Folks what do you think about the fact that medical... - 9/21/2011 4:18:31 PM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

Lets put it like this if your partner is working and is earning a level of income above the threshold which isnt very high something like $10,000 annually, you wouldnt qualify, it is totally unfair, how can you consider people of above $10,000 well to do and capable of affording private health care, you cant and they arent but thats the system, it is only if both together , this is my understanding anyhow have income of less than $10,000 annually would the couple qualify for a medical card, like i say totally unfair and totally unfair that the people MOST in need of health care are DENIED it because of lack of money, ie they cant pay for it so the State doesnt provide for them, completely inequitable but our health care system is just that inequitable and dyfunctional
kevin

Nobody should not have access to basic healthcare, but your characterization that people above $10,000 are considered "well to do" strikes me as a strawman. It sounds to me that they are considered capable of funding a certain level of their own care, not that they are "well to do".

I don't care for the "card" idea. I think a clinic model is far more cost effective.

I think that a clinic model that accepted NO insurance whatsoever would be far more cost-effective.

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Post #: 40

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