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GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - 8/21/2011 6:02:16 PM

Owner59

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From: Dirty Jersey
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http://news.yahoo.com/gop-may-ok-tax-increase-obama-hopes-block-124016578.html

"News flash: Congressional Republicans want to raise your taxes. Impossible, right? GOP lawmakers are so virulently anti-tax, surely they will fight to prevent a payroll tax increase on virtually every wage-earner starting Jan. 1, right?

Apparently not.

Many of the same Republicans who fought hammer-and-tong to keep the George W. Bush-era income tax cuts from expiring on schedule are now saying a different "temporary" tax cut should end as planned. By their own definition, that amounts to a tax increase.

The tax break extension they oppose is sought by President Barack Obama. Unlike proposed changes in the income tax, this policy helps the 46 percent of all Americans who owe no federal income taxes but who pay a "payroll tax" on practically every dime they earn."

Republican=hypocrite

Discuss.....

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

Post #: 1

RE: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - 8/21/2011 6:39:37 PM

MasterJaguar01

Posts: 2815
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

http://news.yahoo.com/gop-may-ok-tax-increase-obama-hopes-block-124016578.html

"News flash: Congressional Republicans want to raise your taxes. Impossible, right? GOP lawmakers are so virulently anti-tax, surely they will fight to prevent a payroll tax increase on virtually every wage-earner starting Jan. 1, right?

Apparently not.

Many of the same Republicans who fought hammer-and-tong to keep the George W. Bush-era income tax cuts from expiring on schedule are now saying a different "temporary" tax cut should end as planned. By their own definition, that amounts to a tax increase.

The tax break extension they oppose is sought by President Barack Obama. Unlike proposed changes in the income tax, this policy helps the 46 percent of all Americans who owe no federal income taxes but who pay a "payroll tax" on practically every dime they earn."

Republican=hypocrite

Discuss.....

I'll be the first to say, that the tax cut has had limited stimulus value. That being said, I will say the following:

1) It has FAR more stimulus value then cutting the top two marginal tax rates (which actually has negative stimulus value)
2) Republicans don't give a rats ass about preserving this tax cut, because it doesn't benefit their donors in any significant way
3) Any stimulation to the economy is bad for Republicans. They will do everything possible (and I mean EVERYTHING) to ensure the economy stays in the crapper while Obama is president

< Message edited by MasterJaguar01 -- 8/21/2011 6:40:52 PM >

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 2

RE: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - 8/21/2011 7:12:49 PM

StrangerThan

Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
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Taxes are where Republicans are hurting themselves most right now. I've said repeatedly that for many, what's coming down the pike from the GOP sounds an awful lot like we're going to be telling Aunt Mildred that we need sacrifice from her in terms of her Medicaid and Social Security, while letting the top dogs enjoy more of their money. The arguments, I'm sure will come fast and furious, but these are the same folks who have been told for the last few years that there is no inflation, and thus no need for a cost of living increase.

It helps to arrive at that conclusion when one doesn't figure into the expense column, things that everyone buys like gas and food.

That being said, the longer this tax holiday goes, the harder it's going to be felt when it expires, and the more it's going to come across like a tax increase even though technically, it's not. The past couple of years, I've been all over the US for work. The grumblings I hear week to week have grown more negative towards both parties, especially when it comes to being out of touch with how a lot of people actually feel, and the stress many are under.

I don't think the GOP can let it expire and not suffer politically. Dems are gaining traction with painting them as doing more for the rich folk, than the little guy. Letting this expire would do little but come across as another nail in that coffin. Then again, another year of it, and if the economy doesn't gain a lot of steam, we'll be right back where we are now and the effect deeper, and harder.

They talk about needing fundamental changes in the tax structure. If I were an analyst for them, I'd be telling them right now that you'd better damned well come up with something and it better be good before you let this slide under the bus. Don't, and you will be smeared all the way to election day. Not only that, but at everyone of those campaign stops, you'll be dealing with people who have less money in their pockets and know you're to blame.

_____________________________

--'Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform' - Mark Twain

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 3

RE: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - 8/21/2011 7:15:41 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

YEAH~!

(in reply to StrangerThan)

Post #: 4

RE: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - 8/21/2011 8:33:40 PM

MasterJaguar01

Posts: 2815
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

YEAH~!

Uninstalling ...Barack Obama..............
██████████████████░░░░░░░░░ 59% complete
Installing ...Ron Paul............
░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░

If it were not for Ron Paul's extreme racism and anti-semitism, I would vote for him

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 5

RE: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - 8/21/2011 8:46:47 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

Discuss THIS.

Yes, I know, it's not monkeys flinging shit at each other, and I actually meant to post it on FL in the Politics! group, there are some very sharp people there who can go beyond
"Libs suck!"
"Wingnuts blow!"

But what the fuck, must be my senility.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)

Post #: 6

RE: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - 8/21/2011 11:32:16 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

Its a fake tax cut. Social Security is underfunded as it is. A temporary holiday does nothing but defer those taxes to the future.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 7

RE: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - 8/21/2011 11:46:11 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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"If it were not for Ron Paul's extreme racism and anti-semitism, I would vote for him "

You need repair, or to go somewhere. Extreme ? And anti-Semite ? You and Anax will get along just fine here. Israel Uber Alles.

And of course everyone is a racist except for those who practice it openly, in front of the blind. Yeah, we got your number.

T^T

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)

Post #: 8

RE: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - 8/22/2011 5:55:44 AM

MasterJaguar01

Posts: 2815
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Its a fake tax cut. Social Security is underfunded as it is. A temporary holiday does nothing but defer those taxes to the future.

LOL. The exact SAME could be said of ANY tax cut while we are in a deficit.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 9

RE: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - 8/22/2011 6:38:30 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

How is social security underfunded if it's funded by payroll taxes, and can meet all it's current obligations? ( Pay as you go... ) What you're suggesting is that the surplus isn't sufficient for some particular scenario with artificial constraints. I'm not sure that's important. Maybe what we need to stimulate the economy would be to reduce payroll taxes to a 'pay as you go' level across the board, and therefore let everyone keep ... let's say... 15% on every paycheck... Everyone having an extra 15% to spend... Not a lump sum, which will go to debt-service, of course... But every week everyone has a little bit more to spend at the grocery store... target... local restaurants.....

Trickle down don't work shit... But like AT&T taught us, trickle up sure the fuck does....

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)

Post #: 10

RE: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - 8/22/2011 8:05:10 AM

StrangerThan

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Joined: 4/25/2008
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It is a fake tax cut for sure. I just think letting it expire right now without an alternative that also addresses the short term need it fulfills, is akin to the GOP putting another bulls eye on their backs and saying here, take another shot, and this one is a freebie.

There are better ways of stimulating the economy, I'm sure. I'm also sure that most people can understand sacrifice. The question is, can Republicans take another hit, which they most certainly will, from dems pointing to the widening gulf between rich and poor, flat wages, and a tax structure they're painting as helping the rich at the expense of the poor. Maybe, I don';t know. I do know Republicans have enough targets on their backs right now to put another up there needlessly.

_____________________________

--'Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform' - Mark Twain

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 11

RE: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - 8/22/2011 8:43:20 AM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Its a fake tax cut. Social Security is underfunded as it is. A temporary holiday does nothing but defer those taxes to the future.

LOL. The exact SAME could be said of ANY tax cut while we are in a deficit.

Incorrect as always. SS spending is already defined and very difficult to change, the deferral of income will almost certainly have to be recovered. Discretionary spending can and will be cut, so temporary tax reductions can become permanent.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)

Post #: 12

RE: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - 8/22/2011 3:21:13 PM

MasterJaguar01

Posts: 2815
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Its a fake tax cut. Social Security is underfunded as it is. A temporary holiday does nothing but defer those taxes to the future.

LOL. The exact SAME could be said of ANY tax cut while we are in a deficit.

Incorrect as always. SS spending is already defined and very difficult to change, the deferral of income will almost certainly have to be recovered. Discretionary spending can and will be cut, so temporary tax reductions can become permanent.

I am indeed correct. You point to SS spending as more difficult to specifically reduce (which it is). That does NOT prove your point by a long shot. Spending will remain relatively constant across the board for the foreseeable future. It will just be better hidden. Therefore ALL loss of revenue will have to be recovered. Thus making all tax cuts equally "fake", by your absurd definition. The Bush/Obama tax cuts are a PRIME example. Spending INCREASED significantly during the Bush and Obama administrations, not decreased. Some tax cuts are stimulative, to some extent (the ones that benefit the middle class), some are not, (the ones specifically for the top income brackets). In any case, stimulative or not, all revenue must be recovered.

I'm sorry... This "SS spending is already defined and very difficult to change" nonsense, just doesn't cut it.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 13

RE: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - 8/22/2011 3:54:56 PM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

YEAH~!

Uninstalling ...Barack Obama..............
██████████████████░░░░░░░░░ 59% complete
Installing ...Ron Paul............
░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░

If it were not for Ron Paul's extreme racism and anti-semitism, I would vote for him

Trust me...all this stuff (now) coming out against him (people, we've all seen this before...anyone over 12 knows how these people play the game)....it's all about front runner shit.

They fear this guy. Why? Because he keeps saying the same shit over and over again, he votes for it and he never wavers (ever):

Repeal the tax code
Repeal the Federal reserve's right to print money
Don't vote for money going out to foreign nations to hold our position in countries that clearly don't fucking like us (Afghanistan anyone?) and never will
Less govt.
No pork barrel spending (i.e., no attachments to bills)
Balanced budget....every year

What's inherently wrong with that?

They did the same shit to Perot....scared the fuck out of him and he backed off.

(Oh, one more thing.....he lost...imagine that, "proving" once again "stay with us....the mainstream...and you'll be just fine". Think for a second.....THINK!!!!!!!! Are you HONESTLY better off because of the people that told you "we don't don't need to raise taxes (for the record...I'm a Republican)....deficits don't matter" ?

Seriously?

This is a guy who wants to take away all the special interests, who wants to eliminate all the shit you and I think is wasteful, kill things like the Davis Bacon act which adds 40% or more to every govt. funded project but adds not a thing in value (i.e., we could get 40% more shot done for the same money).

I'm not a fan of Ron Paul any more than I am of my 1996 Chrysler mini van (although I will say....I love that car :)....I have 3 of them just in case one breaks down....and each one has all the same shit in it so I can hop in any day and drive "the same vehicle").....but I am a fan of someone who says the same shit over and over again, votes the way he talks and doesn't change even when special interests try to overturn him with lies.

Someone who says the same shit every time, every day.....and votes in accord with what he says.

That's Ron Paul.

Love him or hate him....it doesn't seem to change what the guy does every day of the week.

And for those recently who have heard that he's investing against the U.S. dollar, into gold, against U.S. Treasuries....you gotta give the guy credit....he puts his money where his mouth is....and he thinks we're going down.

(Maybe some of us should listen).

(in reply to MasterJaguar01)

Post #: 14

RE: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - 8/22/2011 5:02:13 PM

TreasureKY

Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

And for those recently who have heard that he's investing against the U.S. dollar, into gold, against U.S. Treasuries....you gotta give the guy credit....he puts his money where his mouth is....and he thinks we're going down.

(Maybe some of us should listen).

Gold investment is paying off very nicely right now.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)

Post #: 15

RE: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - 8/22/2011 6:24:29 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Republican=hypocrite

Republicans represent business interests, so asking workers to pay higher taxes is perfectly consistent with their platform.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 16

RE: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - 8/22/2011 8:54:34 PM

Mouth4Mistress

Posts: 91
Joined: 8/8/2011
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I wonder what it will take for people to understand that letting a tax CUT *EXPIRE* is NOT the same as RAISING a tax rate?

Jesus fucking christ, have we really come to an era where concepts can be interchanged as long as they're "similar enough"?

The mass media churns out this duplicitous bullshit wholesale, and some people eat it up like it's caviar.

Open a goddamn dictionary once in a while.

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 17

RE: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - 8/22/2011 9:09:20 PM

erieangel

Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline

Agreed. It is only a tax increase in that when the temporary cut expires I will have a fewer dollars in my pay check. Unlike most people though, I really don't mind paying taxes, but then I'm a liberal and really very odd.

(in reply to Mouth4Mistress)

Post #: 18

RE: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - 8/23/2011 6:28:18 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

And for those recently who have heard that he's investing against the U.S. dollar, into gold, against U.S. Treasuries....you gotta give the guy credit....he puts his money where his mouth is....and he thinks we're going down.

(Maybe some of us should listen).

Gold investment is paying off very nicely right now.

Heheheheheheheheheheh. If that link you handed me for 2500 by end of the year by JPMorgan dont pan out, the rest is comin out of your ass.....

But otherwise, it is a modestly attractive investment at the mo.

Jesus, I bought some 14k yellow herringbone girl chain....2.1d yesterday...........paid 39.87 for it.........looks like it would sell with my wholesaler at around 114 bucks.......now I am sweating and rechecking my goddamn calcs in the spreadsheet........it just doubts too good, know what I mean?

Uff Da!!!!!!!!

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to TreasureKY)

Post #: 19

RE: GOP may OK tax increase that Obama hopes to block - 8/23/2011 7:46:53 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

And for those recently who have heard that he's investing against the U.S. dollar, into gold, against U.S. Treasuries....you gotta give the guy credit....he puts his money where his mouth is....and he thinks we're going down.

(Maybe some of us should listen).

Gold investment is paying off very nicely right now.

Yup,and with the worst economic disaster since the great depression....you can get tons and tons of foreclosed homes, real real cheap.

Good times.......

A little impoverishing-America-humor for ya there.........very little.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to TreasureKY)

Post #: 20

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