RE: Trust--Earned or Maintained?

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RE: Trust--Earned or Maintained? - 5/20/2006 2:47:09 PM

SirPhil

Posts: 4
Joined: 5/19/2006
From: Puget Sound region Wa
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I tend to agree that Trust is earned overtime. When trust is earned it is also maintained by honest open communication between the Master/Dom and there sub/slave

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RE: Trust--Earned or Maintained? - 5/20/2006 10:22:29 PM

Orfik

Posts: 5
Joined: 1/26/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orfik
Expectation of trust is a bastardization of SM; it precludes the entire ideal of desperation and anxiety.
The ideal of S/M without trust is called psychopathia and needing trust has nothing to do with desperation and anxiety, it has to do with common sense and good judgement.
Anyone who bottoms to or submits to someone they don't trust, has a death wish or at least a serious self destructive instinct for which he/she might need help.
Welcome to the boards though... I learned boatload of information here, and hope for the same with you.

quote:

M,
Love the new pic!
TM
Thank you TexasMaam. M

No offense, but all I've learned here is the shallow character of your collective practices. SM is necessarily self-destructive, and desperate. Anyone who can't see that doesn't understand the most vital aspect of SM. Naturally, D/s relationships are a different type of amae -- harmony is based on trust because it distills to a mutual contract between partners. SM, on the other hand, is not contractual in its finest form. If you want to cut, cut; if you want to rape, rape. Understand that real masochists appreciate the whole stae of violence, not just pain. They are as self-destructive as true sadists are psychopathic. The relationship is contradictory: sadists show love through a lack of sympathy, and therefore a complete devotion to satisfying the gluttony of the other.

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RE: Trust--Earned or Maintained? - 5/21/2006 1:14:20 AM

Wulfchyld

Posts: 2618
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Trust is maintained. As for a sympathetic Dom, I am sure somewhere such a creature exists... more of a switch trait. Empathetic I believe is what you are looking for. I can empathize with an "s" on all her levels... do I empathize with her pain? I probably can't. I have lived with pain for a very long time and have raised my threshold to an insane level. I am mindful of the pain that is inflicted and understand that S&M is a slow dance learning your partner, and hopefully, not crossing the line of her limits.

_____________________________

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Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together

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RE: Trust--Earned or Maintained? - 5/21/2006 1:28:32 AM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orfik
No offense, but all I've learned here is the shallow character of your collective practices. SM is necessarily self-destructive, and desperate. Anyone who can't see that doesn't understand the most vital aspect of SM.

It must be nice to be 21 and know everything about what S/M is... I just hope another brothah doesn't end up in jail trying to explain this to the judge because he felt he understood/knew organically what the masochist/bottom wanted.

M

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 5/21/2006 1:29:40 AM >

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RE: Trust--Earned or Maintained? - 5/21/2006 2:15:54 AM

understud

Posts: 102
Joined: 4/12/2006
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trust...for myself, trust=peace of mind. in that what i expect to happen, will happen...or a damn good reason forthcoming as to just why it didn't. if i didn't trust my Domme fully completely and without reservation; the relationship would not exist. This trust in Her was built by demonstrated acts proving i could depend on Her to be as good as Her word; as i did with Her. Missteps have occurred but with ample reason given as to why, from both sides of the power divide. Such faith is strong and would take a concerted effort from either to destroy it; however it could be done. Like a garden, trust must be tended and cared for, never taken for granted and above all valued. i believe my Domme values my faith in Her; She has so far done nothing to dissuade me i am completely justified in my faith in Her ability to direct my life. i believe this to be a safe workable relationship; and not a suicide pact. But then again this is only an opinion from one lowly submissive speaking only for himself.
always respectful

respectfully submitted

understud...

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RE: Trust--Earned or Maintained? - 5/21/2006 7:07:30 AM

smilezz

Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
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quote:

No offense, but all I've learned here is the shallow character of your collective practices. SM is necessarily self-destructive, and desperate. Anyone who can't see that doesn't understand the most vital aspect of SM
.

quote:

It must be nice to be 21 and know everything about what S/M is... I just hope another brothah doesn't end up in jail trying to explain this to the judge because he felt he understood/knew organically what the masochist/bottom wanted. M

Ya know M.........there is always going to be at least one person in the crowd. *chucklez*

Happy Sunday...

~smilezz~

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RE: Trust--Earned or Maintained? - 5/21/2006 7:23:54 AM

SmokeyM

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Trust is surely something that does have to be earned as well as maintained. Once someones trust is broken its very hard for it to be given back.

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RE: Trust--Earned or Maintained? - 5/21/2006 10:25:32 AM

Orfik

Posts: 5
Joined: 1/26/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

Trust is maintained. As for a sympathetic Dom, I am sure somewhere such a creature exists... more of a switch trait. Empathetic I believe is what you are looking for. I can empathize with an "s" on all her levels... do I empathize with her pain? I probably can't. I have lived with pain for a very long time and have raised my threshold to an insane level. I am mindful of the pain that is inflicted and understand that S&M is a slow dance learning your partner, and hopefully, not crossing the line of her limits.

Not crossing her limits? It's for you to map those boundaries. Many subs and masochists don't know their own limits because todays doms and sadists are too weak to test them properly. You treat this word "limit" like a holy order and cling to it closer than your own perversion. And yes, by the way, it is very nice to be 21 and know everything about SM.

(in reply to Wulfchyld)

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RE: Trust--Earned or Maintained? - 5/21/2006 10:33:15 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orfik

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

Trust is maintained. As for a sympathetic Dom, I am sure somewhere such a creature exists... more of a switch trait. Empathetic I believe is what you are looking for. I can empathize with an "s" on all her levels... do I empathize with her pain? I probably can't. I have lived with pain for a very long time and have raised my threshold to an insane level. I am mindful of the pain that is inflicted and understand that S&M is a slow dance learning your partner, and hopefully, not crossing the line of her limits.

Not crossing her limits? It's for you to map those boundaries. Many subs and masochists don't know their own limits because todays doms and sadists are too weak to test them properly. You treat this word "limit" like a holy order and cling to it closer than your own perversion. And yes, by the way, it is very nice to be 21 and know everything about SM.

Hmmmmm,... I wouldnt let you near me with a 100 foot pole, 10 feet is still too close for someone who knows it all and wants to give me pain. Hun, anyone that thinks he defines a submissive's pain thershold/boundary IS going to end up locked up like Marv Albert..

I am wondering, do you believe in safe words and SSC? Or are you so magnificent in your domly self that you make up all the rules? Im just wondering.

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RE: Trust--Earned or Maintained? - 5/21/2006 10:36:10 AM

Dustyn

Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orfik

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

Trust is maintained. As for a sympathetic Dom, I am sure somewhere such a creature exists... more of a switch trait. Empathetic I believe is what you are looking for. I can empathize with an "s" on all her levels... do I empathize with her pain? I probably can't. I have lived with pain for a very long time and have raised my threshold to an insane level. I am mindful of the pain that is inflicted and understand that S&M is a slow dance learning your partner, and hopefully, not crossing the line of her limits.

quote:

Not crossing her limits? It's for you to map those boundaries.

No, it's not up to you to map those boundaries. It's up to you, at the submissive's/slave's discretion (and yes, slaves still have the right to say no, at least in my universe), to slowly push those boundaries beyond what would normally be accepted and introduce them to things that they may or may not know exist within them.

quote:

Many subs and masochists don't know their own limits because todays doms and sadists are too weak to test them properly.

Uhm, does the word 'abuse' mean anything to you? In this abhorently PC culture we are forced to live in, pushing the true limits of a masochist could easily get you thrown in jail.

quote:

You treat this word "limit" like a holy order and cling to it closer than your own perversion. And yes, by the way, it is very nice to be 21 and know everything about SM.

Ya know, I find it somewhat amusing to see someone using the word perversion while posting about having great amounts of knowledge about what is basically a perversion. So are you Mr. Kettle or Mr. Pot today, mon ami? *smirk*

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Can you be more amusing?

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RE: Trust--Earned or Maintained? - 5/21/2006 11:03:27 AM

sabswife

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Joined: 5/2/2006
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Earned definately earned. I have been burned way too many times, it must be earned and then definately maintained. The maintaining with me can be as difficult as the original earning. It sucks that others have to pay for my baggage, but its part of who I am.

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RE: Trust--Earned or Maintained? - 5/21/2006 11:11:30 AM

Orfik

Posts: 5
Joined: 1/26/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orfik

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

Trust is maintained. As for a sympathetic Dom, I am sure somewhere such a creature exists... more of a switch trait. Empathetic I believe is what you are looking for. I can empathize with an "s" on all her levels... do I empathize with her pain? I probably can't. I have lived with pain for a very long time and have raised my threshold to an insane level. I am mindful of the pain that is inflicted and understand that S&M is a slow dance learning your partner, and hopefully, not crossing the line of her limits.

quote:

Not crossing her limits? It's for you to map those boundaries.

No, it's not up to you to map those boundaries. It's up to you, at the submissive's/slave's discretion (and yes, slaves still have the right to say no, at least in my universe), to slowly push those boundaries beyond what would normally be accepted and introduce them to things that they may or may not know exist within them.

quote:

Many subs and masochists don't know their own limits because todays doms and sadists are too weak to test them properly.

Uhm, does the word 'abuse' mean anything to you? In this abhorently PC culture we are forced to live in, pushing the true limits of a masochist could easily get you thrown in jail.

quote:

You treat this word "limit" like a holy order and cling to it closer than your own perversion. And yes, by the way, it is very nice to be 21 and know everything about SM.

Ya know, I find it somewhat amusing to see someone using the word perversion while posting about having great amounts of knowledge about what is basically a perversion. So are you Mr. Kettle or Mr. Pot today, mon ami? *smirk*

First off, I'm glad I don't live in your universe. It sounds like a boring place. Anyway, I never said I or anyone who did these things may not end up in jail -- I do live in the real world, after all -- but it's a worthwhile risk for honest expression. And what does a sadist have to do with safewords? If she's afraid she'll let go or fight back.

As for you amusement, what of it? I say perversion because our pursuits are perverse. Sexual deviancy is something I enjoy, and so I don't euphemise it; don't think I'm categorizing you all as something I don't hold for myself also.

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RE: Trust--Earned or Maintained? - 5/21/2006 11:18:05 AM

MasterR001

Posts: 76
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Both.

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RE: Trust--Earned or Maintained? - 5/21/2006 12:38:26 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orfik

No offense, but all I've learned here is the shallow character of your collective practices. SM is necessarily self-destructive, and desperate. Anyone who can't see that doesn't understand the most vital aspect of SM. Naturally, D/s relationships are a different type of amae -- harmony is based on trust because it distills to a mutual contract between partners. SM, on the other hand, is not contractual in its finest form. If you want to cut, cut; if you want to rape, rape. Understand that real masochists appreciate the whole stae of violence, not just pain. They are as self-destructive as true sadists are psychopathic. The relationship is contradictory: sadists show love through a lack of sympathy, and therefore a complete devotion to satisfying the gluttony of the other.

You lack of depth of understanding to both D/s relationships and BDSM activities shine through very nicely with this post.

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RE: Trust--Earned or Maintained? - 5/21/2006 12:47:59 PM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orfik

No offense, but all I've learned here is the shallow character of your collective practices. SM is necessarily self-destructive, and desperate. Anyone who can't see that doesn't understand the most vital aspect of SM. Naturally, D/s relationships are a different type of amae -- harmony is based on trust because it distills to a mutual contract between partners. SM, on the other hand, is not contractual in its finest form. If you want to cut, cut; if you want to rape, rape. Understand that real masochists appreciate the whole stae of violence, not just pain. They are as self-destructive as true sadists are psychopathic. The relationship is contradictory: sadists show love through a lack of sympathy, and therefore a complete devotion to satisfying the gluttony of the other.

Okay, without having read a single other post in this thread, I have decided to apply to the powers that be to have my license to make fun of people who use the words "real" and "true" in reference to a group which excludes most of the people who actually live this lifestyle.

Yours,

benji

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RE: Trust--Earned or Maintained? - 5/21/2006 12:56:04 PM

Wulfchyld

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I considered pointing out that you did not clearly read my post. Then it occurred to me that it wouldn’t make a difference anyway. The majorities of the members have read it and do understand "the dance". So I will go off on a wild tangent here and toss this little philosophy out for dissection and giddy flaming.

“Ignorance can be educated but stupid is forever.”

So everyone toss in the definitions and let’s have fun with it.

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together

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Post #: 56

RE: Trust--Earned or Maintained? - 5/21/2006 1:01:30 PM

gooddogbenji

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wulfchyld

“Ignorance can be educated but stupid is forever.”

I don't agree. Stupidity tends to end when you make stupid comments and get beaten to death with a cardboard box. That, or get run over by a parked steamroller.

Ignorance, in my experience goes hand in hand with stupidity, as anyone with a decent amount of intelligence knows when to shut it and do research first on the subject at hand.

Thirdly, the advantage of online is the ability for people to ignore the stupid and ignorant. Or laugh. I personally enjoy certain posts.

Yours,

benji

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RE: Trust--Earned or Maintained? - 5/21/2006 1:25:37 PM

feastie

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I would be very curious to see what Orfik has to say when he's lived another twenty years.

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RE: Trust--Earned or Maintained? - 5/21/2006 1:29:21 PM

Lordandmaster

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I don't trust anyone who hasn't earned it. I've arrived at that policy the hard way.

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RE: Trust--Earned or Maintained? - 5/21/2006 1:30:35 PM

tinkerbellKH

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i will trust someone as long as they are trust worthy when they are not so honest or i catch them doing something that is not trustworthy than that it when i no longer can trust them. so i guess what i am saying is. in a way they do have to earn my trust.

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Post #: 60