How do I pay ?

How do I pay ? (Full Version)

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Termyn8or -> How do I pay ? (8/14/2011 11:16:34 PM)
I am listening to Boz Scaggs, and you know what ? I would b wiling to pay for it, and actually a few other things. How would I do that, after I have DLed it, listened to it a few times and then gave it to a couple people an all that ? You see I can never really make it right. Shoot me, unless I see you first. I am always locked and loaded. That's whay kids are not allowed in my house. Too much to think now. T^T

Missokyst -> RE: How do I pay ? (8/15/2011 12:43:43 PM)
The other day when I had a toothache I stopped by the store to pick up something for it and got distracted by a lot of other shopping. The end result was that the stupid ambesol was at the bottom of my basket and did not get rung up. I was in a hurry so I tossed it in my car and planned to take it back the next day. Life being life.. I was too busy, so it stayed in my car. And today when I saw your post I was reminded, so I walked into the store with item in hand and let them know what happened and they took it back. I would have kept it and paid for it if necessary (toothache was gone by then). How can you pay for old music? Download it from a pay site (preferably the artists website), buy it on a download. You cannot control what the other people you gave it to might do, that is on them.

MasterG2kTR -> RE: How do I pay ? (8/15/2011 12:52:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or I am listening to Boz Scaggs, and you know what ? I would b wiling to pay for it, and actually a few other things. How would I do that, after I have DLed it, listened to it a few times and then gave it to a couple people an all that ? You see I can never really make it right. Shoot me, unless I see you first. I am always locked and loaded. That's whay kids are not allowed in my house. Too much to think now. T^T Contact the RIAA.....I'm sure they'd be willing to settle for a reasonable amount....lol....yeah right

Termyn8or -> RE: How do I pay ? (8/15/2011 1:37:01 PM)
What is fair ? Not a buck apiece, that would be ridiculous becuae I got like 20GBs. Now really, there is a whole lot of stuff I will never listen to, it's just there because I decided to get a certain group or something, and it came along like the unnoticed Ambesol. Thinking off my ass, Chris Rock said something to the effect that guns are just fine, but bullets should be like five thousand dollars. Let's go with that. I would then pay, not to HAVE it, but to PLAY it. It's like cable TV in a way. You got the killer package, 912 channels. How many can you actually watch ? Someone said up in Canada some cable is actually pay for what you watch, and I know the technology exists, but this is the US and it would be cheaper so they won't do it here. I have been around the track with cable ompanies here over this shit. They fucking make you pay for commercials, which is one of the reasons I do not even have TV anymore. This thread is an outgrowth of me thinking too much. Like the other day - "I can't be doing that if I want bitching rights". I could concieve of doing away with the whole premise of paying for entertainment, but I know what would happen, there would be very little. Artists would have to have regular jobs and only do this part time. That ain't right. I mean for music it might work in a really killer kickass economy in which people can afford msucal instruments without mortgaging the place, shit like that, but that ain't how it is. I mean the cheapest steel sitdown guitars are like $300 and up, that's almost four tanks of gas for your car. The cheapest ass Washburn acoustic might be about $100, shit, that'll feed a family of four for a few days. And let's not even talk about other instruments like keyboards, saxes and shit, or mixing boards or the half a fucking kilowatt of sound reinforcement you need to even play with a set of drums in the room. Been there done that. There is serious mony involved, and that's if it's a hobby. But hold on. I remember radio. I literally do not own a radio. But I remember them, you turn them on and tune them in and they play music for free. All day long in every city. How do they pay ? They make me listen to some bitch selling me tampons or some other shit I simply don't need. Tell me how white my shirts can be, but he can't be a Man because he doesn't smoke the same cigarettes as me. So let's follow the money a bit more closely here. Forget recording off the radio, I was the KING of this. I would go bar hopping and have all my tape machines set up, when I was a kid "Ma, at midnight push this button". An unwitting accomplice to my crimes. But forget recording. It never happened, you saw NOTHING. So I have this cranking ass stereo in my 1970 Toronado, it can be heard for a LOOOOOONG way. I crank up the tunes. Oh yes I did. When I turned it down or changed the station when the commercials came on, was that stealing ? In my day, really if it was old nobody seemed to give a shit. The money was made on what is new. Unfortunately this led to contracts and formerly great artists making albums full of filler. I have already discussed why alot of bands' best albums were their first, because it took them all their life to make it. Afterward they are under contract. But then some other guy has a stereo in his car and is playing something good, and you never heard it. He says "Oh that's the new tune from Ishkabibble", and you go buy it. Then you have to record the thing on cassette or heaven forbid EIGHT TRACK so you can jam it in your car. That supported the industry. If I were any kind of decent musician I would be goddamn proud if people stole my work. But if I ain't got no electricity, there is no new record to play, how the fuck would I record it ? The courts think they settled this issue but they didn't. The DMCA is a nosebleed at best. The suits don't really know what to do, except to exercise the utmost greed, which is what they do best. But nobody has even addressed the question of right and wrong, and more and more in society the court does not care right from wrong. The law supposedly defines that. Well I am here to tellya that it does not. I don't know if it ever has. In fact I'm pretty sure it hasn't. T^T

Missokyst -> RE: How do I pay ? (8/15/2011 1:57:13 PM)
I lost my faith in what society deems is right and wrong a long time ago. I used to be political until I discovered that no matter what side you are on, you are not in it for the people. We became whores living at the mercy of the rich who are only getting richer. Right and wrong? Depends on who has the purse strings. .... except for one thing. I do think there is a right and a wrong. I got a twinge in my gut when I tossed that ambesol in the car, even though I was confident I would bring it back. The very fact that I did not do it at the time made me wonder if I was honest. I cannot change the world, I can only do my best to do what I know is right. quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or But nobody has even addressed the question of right and wrong, and more and more in society the court does not care right from wrong. The law supposedly defines that. Well I am here to tellya that it does not. I don't know if it ever has. In fact I'm pretty sure it hasn't. T^T

Termyn8or -> RE: How do I pay ? (8/15/2011 3:53:41 PM)
The people who sold you that shit you stole were not honest. Why should you be ? Get it ? T^T

hardcybermaster -> RE: How do I pay ? (8/15/2011 5:08:42 PM)
its about right and wrong choose your side

Missokyst -> RE: How do I pay ? (8/15/2011 6:11:39 PM)
I don't live my life by the dictates of others. Whether or not grocery stores are deep into corporate greed, those people who work for a living get pay, bonuses, ect based on the stores bottom line. Sure it was only 6.78 cents, but it would be wrong of me to keep it. I choose which side I am which makes me most comfortable, if that means I had to say I accidentally missed paying for this item, while I am returning it, then I need to live with a bit of embarrassment while I face up to it. quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or The people who sold you that shit you stole were not honest. Why should you be ? Get it ? T^T

MissImmortalPain -> RE: How do I pay ? (8/15/2011 7:24:40 PM)
Right and wrong are both very chaotic concepts. They are only set by what anyone one of us as people say they are. I was line last week for almost an hour when a checker at wal mart screwed up her register. When I got home I figured out that she did not charge me for a quesadilla maker I got. I am sure many would say I should have drive the 38 miles back to the store and pointed out her error. But I didn't and I don't intend to based on two things. One....two csms had to "help" her correct whatever it was she couldn't get to work right. So I view it as their errror not hers, or mine. If wal mart doesn't want to have things go missing than they should hire people that know how to do their jobs correctly. After all it is not as if they will return my gas money if I take the time to drive back and tell them what happened. The second thing I base it on is the fact that I once spent a little over half an hour trying to explain to a girl at Dillons that she had given me the wrong change(in my favor mind you) She even called me stupid before her boss pointed out to her that she was wrong. I was trying to be nice. I didn't want her to get fired...now I wish she had been. On a site like this one I think we all already know that we each tell ourselves what is "right" and what is "wrong" but that does not mean that either is something real.

Anaxagoras -> RE: How do I pay ? (8/15/2011 9:12:43 PM)
Just buy the fucking CD and use it as a tea coaster or post Mr. Skagg's management company the dosh quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or This thread is an outgrowth of me thinking too much. Like the other day - "I can't be doing that if I want bitching rights". I could concieve of doing away with the whole premise of paying for entertainment, but I know what would happen, there would be very little. Artists would have to have regular jobs and only do this part time. That ain't right. I mean for music it might work in a really killer kickass economy in which people can afford msucal instruments without mortgaging the place, shit like that, but that ain't how it is. I mean the cheapest steel sitdown guitars are like $300 and up, that's almost four tanks of gas for your car. The cheapest ass Washburn acoustic might be about $100, shit, that'll feed a family of four for a few days. And let's not even talk about other instruments like keyboards, saxes and shit, or mixing boards or the half a fucking kilowatt of sound reinforcement you need to even play with a set of drums in the room. Been there done that. There is serious mony involved, and that's if it's a hobby. I made a similar point when we were talking about that on the thread about the rights and wrongs of recording TV shows from DVR. The instruments would be the least of their expenses for functioning musicians. No way you can get a Washburn for $100 unless they're made in China now. quote: When I turned it down or changed the station when the commercials came on, was that stealing ? No it wouldn't. It would be an accepted part of normal use. quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or The people who sold you that shit you stole were not honest. Why should you be ? Get it ? Why be honest when you can be so much more than the douche bags you look down on: is that the question?

Termyn8or -> RE: How do I pay ? (8/15/2011 9:44:38 PM)
"I made a similar point when we were talking about that on the thread about the rights and wrongs of recording TV shows from DVR. The instruments would be the least of their expenses for functioning musicians. No way you can get a Washburn for $100 unless they're made in China now. " You mean my Washburn is worth more than I thought ? It really does play nice but I put too thin a guage strings on it. But even if it had a tress bar I wouldn't ever loosen it. I just need to take it up a couple thousandths in guage and it will sing like a MF. But Washburns are sold at Walmart, and are available cheap, I have heard of them being like a hundred bucks, but who knows. "No it wouldn't. It would be an accepted part of normal use." AHA, we meet again. OK, then if I record off the radio and play the recording now what ? If I play ther commercials with the material I am doing what the station did to pay to play it. Instead of charging money for that, I do it out of the goodness of me little heart, for the simple right to play the material. I'm a nice guy that way. You see, these arguments fall apart in light of the fact that almost every MF in this country who had a radio in the 1960s and up also had some type of tape or other recorder. The cops didn't come. Nothing happened. If intellectual property is the new frontier, then let's get some definitions down, the first of which should be what is NOT defined as intellectual property. For example "public domain". I never signed off on public domain, therefore I can copy, hear, even SELL anything that is over eight years old. Otherwise SOMEONE has stolen from me. Fuck me fuck you, works both ways. Read up on what happened to public domain in this country. You won't find much. You know what happened ? People made advertising, in said ads they used music. Then they figured they would use old music because for one it was in public domain and therefore free to use, and they also found out that people liked it. Part of that is because most pop music anymore has no real substance, yeah there are some good pieces but there is a hell of alot more quantity than quality. So oldies remain a hit. So ALL OF THE SUDDEN, you gotta pay royalties to people who have been dead for fucking decades. Get your money for nothing and your chicks for free. I have thought this out in depth from both sides. I have actually written a couple of songs and know others who have written alot more. This is not all one sided. What's more I know some quite talented individuals who are not getting rich just because they haven't gotten their "break". Why is that ? (actually one is, but that's not the point) And why can't I run for President ? T^T

Anaxagoras -> RE: How do I pay ? (8/16/2011 6:47:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or "I made a similar point when we were talking about that on the thread about the rights and wrongs of recording TV shows from DVR. The instruments would be the least of their expenses for functioning musicians. No way you can get a Washburn for $100 unless they're made in China now. " You mean my Washburn is worth more than I thought ? It really does play nice but I put too thin a guage strings on it. But even if it had a tress bar I wouldn't ever loosen it. I just need to take it up a couple thousandths in guage and it will sing like a MF. But Washburns are sold at Walmart, and are available cheap, I have heard of them being like a hundred bucks, but who knows. I wouldn't know how much they sell for in the US but if selling in Walmark they must be cheap as their bulk buys are massive so they would get huge whole sale reductions. The question is whether they have downgraded the quality after the move to Walmart but they used to have a good reputation for guitars. I bought one in the early 90's for £250. quote: "No it wouldn't. It would be an accepted part of normal use." AHA, we meet again. OK, then if I record off the radio and play the recording now what ? If I play ther commercials with the material I am doing what the station did to pay to play it. Instead of charging money for that, I do it out of the goodness of me little heart, for the simple right to play the material. I'm a nice guy that way. You see, these arguments fall apart in light of the fact that almost every MF in this country who had a radio in the 1960s and up also had some type of tape or other recorder. The cops didn't come. Nothing happened. If intellectual property is the new frontier, then let's get some definitions down, the first of which should be what is NOT defined as intellectual property. For example "public domain". I never signed off on public domain, therefore I can copy, hear, even SELL anything that is over eight years old. Otherwise SOMEONE has stolen from me. Fuck me fuck you, works both ways. Read up on what happened to public domain in this country. You won't find much. You know what happened ? People made advertising, in said ads they used music. Then they figured they would use old music because for one it was in public domain and therefore free to use, and they also found out that people liked it. Part of that is because most pop music anymore has no real substance, yeah there are some good pieces but there is a hell of alot more quantity than quality. So oldies remain a hit. So ALL OF THE SUDDEN, you gotta pay royalties to people who have been dead for fucking decades. I'm not certain to be honest as it varies from country to country but it just might come under fair use in the US according to wiki: quote: The doctrine of fair use should make it legal to record songs from the radio for private use. Traditionally, the recording industry expressed little or no concern with individuals who recorded music from the radio on a cassette recorder. However, the digital format in this case changes the whole issue since it does not degrade over time and can be easily copied.

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: How do I pay ? (8/16/2011 6:55:33 AM)
FR Buy a cd for each album you own of the artist, and for each album you sent to others. That should square things. Or, just stop stealing, vow to be a better person and go out and do some volunteer work until your debt to society has been paid. Not sure if we will ever see you again, if you go that route. If not - Best wishes. WinD I'm too tired to get into the ethical quagmire that is public entertainment and creative property rights. I'm just not sure if you are having a moment of guilt crisis, or waxing philosophical.

Termyn8or -> RE: How do I pay ? (8/16/2011 8:53:10 AM)
FR I dunno. I know some have much larger collections but mine is about 5,600 tunes. How much ? A buck each would be a piece of change to say the least. A dime each would be a hair under $600 but that's too low. Fair market ? That's a whole different can of worms. There is a used market for CDs. Ha, a whole bunch of my stuff actually came out on vinyl. With the equipment I had it didn't matter anyway. Really the only thing the digital age did for me was reduce wear and tear, and things didn't get scratched - as much. If anyone knows CD are not indestructable, it is I. Harddrives got them beat. But the prices are just whacked out. New album comes out, $15 or $20. Some time later - how much ? Then stuff goes to compliations eventually and you get 35 hit songs for $2.99. T^T

LillyBoPeep -> RE: How do I pay ? (8/16/2011 10:41:42 AM)
amazon sells mp3s at $1 or $1+some change per track. that seems to be a fairly standard rate. if you stole 5600 tunes, then consider buying each song individually from amazon. =p or buy the CDs all over again. how about you make a donation to a music program at a local school?

Termyn8or -> RE: How do I pay ? (8/16/2011 3:14:25 PM)
Not so bad ideas Lil, but I really didn't start this because of a guilt trip. My Mother has to go into training and take steroids just to make me recognize guilt for anything. But what would be fair, and fair to whom ? Years ago I considered selling copies of the collection, and it is not a regular collection. The content was pretty much hand picked. I have been DLing for over a decade, I could have easily had much much more but I was picky. I have shit YOU CAN'T GET at any price. Some things came in ten seconds, others took years, literally. One particular song took seven years to get. Oh, you can get it now, I made that happen. And that's what they see as a problem, the profileration of this. They want five grand from me ? Good luck. I am as totally uncollectable as any homeowner could possibly be. But that doesn't make it right. This does not mean I intend to make it right, but I am more curious as to how much it would take to settle, and I mean keeping what I have. The things I suffered through DLing on wire, back when it tied up my phone line for days on end. Hell, for most of it now I could just go to youtube. And what's up with that ? Don't get me wrong, I can and have ripped high quality sound from youtube, but that's not the point, you can get it. You can listen to it. That's what I got it for. Does that Asian sluts online now banner actually pay enough to cover the "use" of the content ? If so just make the players adware. But not my cute little VLC. Nothing comes to Mediaplayer.exe but by VLC. I can't escape the fact that musicians have to eat too, but I have come to the conclusion that there are tooo many suits in the way. My Greatgrandfather was a musician, does anyuone owe me for that ? I think once someone is dead you pretty much don't owe them money. T^T

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