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RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 8:16:48 AM

VaguelyCurious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

Safewords are not perfect and they do fail. Not everyone has a need for them.
I find that picking your partner well and have great communication works so much better.

See, I can see this side too, and from the way Aileen and Shorey talk about each other it sounds like she's in pretty safe hands. But OP, that's Shorebound, not the dom in your situation. So the question then becomes do you trust this guy as much as Aileen trusts Shorey?

And I'm still thrown by the whole 'you can have a safeword for when I'm hitting you but not when I'm messing with your emotions' thing.

It's also one thing to have a system like Aileen's where she says so if something's up without using a formal safeword, but a completely different thing to have no get-out system at all. So ask this dom: what's his plan if something does go wrong?

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Post #: 21

RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 8:50:24 AM

Kana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

But if you can say a safe word, then why can't you just say to him....I'm not feeling good?

I have a bum shoulder, a torn cuff. It really starts to scream based on where it's tied and how it's tied sometimes.
When that happens I look at him and tell him that my shoulder is shot. He then repositions me.
I don't say some mystical word that he then has to go through 20 questions to find out what the problem is.
He knows because I told him.

Ain't it amazing how uncommon common sense is?
We don't use safewords, but we do exercise ughhhh, you know, judgement. She's got a few spots that are bad for her (Extended kneeling for example). I'm aware of those things and we communicate. It's really no big deal. She says something like, "Master, my knees are going numb..." and I go, "Oh, well lets move you then."
Being a rational reasonable human being, I'm pretty aware going in what her strong/weak points are and plan the scene correspondingly.

Like Shorey, I like my toys to much to break em.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Aileen1968)

Post #: 22

RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 8:59:19 AM

UniqueRaven

Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
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I see the difference here too between the emotional sadism and the physical sadism.

Like Aileen (and others), I don't see the need for a specific word like "banana" to indicate that something's wrong with me in a physical situation. Simple, clear, words like "my arm is going numb" work for that, and I wouldn't be physically involved with someone I didn't trust to keep me safe.

But emotional sadism is different...I've determined that I can't serve an emotional sadist. And honestly, I've started to become of the mind that emotional sadism comes from some sort of dark psychological place in a man that I don't want to be involved with anyhow.

Not that emotional sadism needs a safeword either. In that situation, my response to emotional sadism when it has flared up has been to simply...walk away. Because emotional sadism very rarely draws the two of us any closer, on the contrary, it damages the relationship, it diminishes trust, and it makes me lose that girly need to serve and please him because I think he's so uberawesome.

Oh, and like GT said - "STOP" works too.

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"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)

Post #: 23

RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 9:09:34 AM

domiguy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

But if you can say a safe word, then why can't you just say to him....I'm not feeling good?

I have a bum shoulder, a torn cuff. It really starts to scream based on where it's tied and how it's tied sometimes.
When that happens I look at him and tell him that my shoulder is shot. He then repositions me.
I don't say some mystical word that he then has to go through 20 questions to find out what the problem is.
He knows because I told him.

This actually works? You mean all the times that sub susie shouted out, "Rutabaga!" she could have just explained what she was feeling?

What an entirely odd and stupid concept. Are you trying to mock all of the good people that posted above you? Are you trying to say that they are idiots?

YOU ARE NO LONGER PART OF THE COMMUNITY...GET THE FUCK OUT!

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Post #: 24

RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 9:12:29 AM

domiguy

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if you don't trust your Dom, what on Earth would lead you to believe that he/she will stop because you said, "Cumquat?"

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Post #: 25

RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 9:29:02 AM

VaguelyCurious

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From: United Kingdom
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'Rutabaga'? Domi just made me laugh in a bad way.

Safewords can be valid sometimes, though. There are people who like to be able to say no. If someone wants to be able to beg me to stop and know that I won't unless they say the particular word then that's ok.

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Post #: 26

RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 9:43:00 AM

Jeffff

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Safe words are for strangers having casual "play" or folks heavily into protocol.

Most people in any sort of relationship can see and hear when a line is being crossed.

We aren't special, we are just kinky.

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(in reply to VaguelyCurious)

Post #: 27

RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 9:50:12 AM

VaguelyCurious

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Yeah, that too.

Seriously, this is a multi-faceted issue. I hold many conflicting opinions on it.

But it's still weird that she gets a safeword for impact play but not for mental play.

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Post #: 28

RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 9:56:43 AM

Jeffff

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Yeah it is. Of course nothing is stopping her from saying " fuck it " and walking away.

Except maybe the "sub always does what it's told" fairy tale.

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Post #: 29

RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 10:00:36 AM

VaguelyCurious

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Or the manacles. (Those aren't fairytales. Just saying.)

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Post #: 30

RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 10:01:52 AM

UniqueRaven

Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
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I think one of the days when I found maturity as a single slave was the day I learned how to say "Get the FUCK away from me."

I call it the day "I found my voice." giggles

Unowned, my responsibility is to protect myself. There's nothing wrong with that. If he's hurting me in a bad or abusive way, mentally or physically, when I'm just in the process of getting to know him, there's no relationship there, in my book.

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to Jeffff)

Post #: 31

RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 10:17:26 AM

Hisfreedom

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Joined: 8/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi

Do you know everything about yourself? Mental play has some built in dangers that physical does not. People's bodies generally tend to have the same range in tolerances and dangers to watch out for, people's psyches can vary much more widely. If you knew everything about yourself then you could warn your partner ahead of time but is it possible to know every single feeling you'll have and if you'll want to continue with something or not?

Plus there's always a surprise in there I find, I think I'll know how I react to something mental (or even physical) and then find out it's quite different. For that reason I think a safeword or the ability to speak up for yourself and be taken seriously is needed. You can't always say yourself how you'll react to something, why would you expect your Dominant partner to be able to not only read your mind, but predict absolutely how you will feel?

Human beings are strange complex animals, it's impossible to know every thing about them and have it right every time. I feel there should always be an avenue to take to share important information and have it be listenened to no matter what your position is.

and

< Message edited by Hisfreedom -- 8/7/2011 10:18:08 AM >

(in reply to lizi)

Post #: 32

RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 11:35:03 AM

HisPet21

Posts: 395
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quote:

I probably disagree with every thing you just wrote.
Safewords are not perfect and they do fail. Not everyone has a need for them.
I find that picking your partner well and have great communication works so much better.
I don't have a safe word and if I was to ask Shorey for one, I'm pretty damn sure he'd laugh right in my face and tell me no fucking way.
Trust me...he ain't stupid, egotistical, a danger, in it for his own jollies (well maybe just a little). He also doesn't break his toys.
In fact, he kinda likes me and takes very good care of me.
He is guilty of not caring if I'm feeling uncomfortable. In fact, he gets off on me being uncomfortable. I do too...

Oh, I most certainly agree that great communication beats a safe word every time. If you and your partner know each other inside and out, my guess is that safe words rarely, if ever, need to be used. In those types of relationships, I'm sure the dom is, most of the time, able to anticipate potential issues and can almost always tell the difference between desirable discomfort and that which has gone too far. Still, it is my opinion that there will be some situations...however rare they are...when the communication is imperfect due to unforeseen reasons, or the dom overestimates the sub's endurance. Shit happens; life happens. And that's why I still think a safe word (and a safe gesture, for those more compromising situations ;)) is a good idea. Because if you ever do have to use it, for some unforeseen reason, it's there. You have it. It's SUPPOSED to be a tool for emergencies, not a substitute for communication, not a replacement for "Ow....you're going a bit far!" or "I'm very scared right now." It's an acknowledgement that doms and subs aren't infallible; they can misunderstand themselves and each other just like everyone else can.

Now, maybe I'm way off target. A lot of people on this thread with far more experience then I'll ever have apparently don't use safe words, and it seems to work for them. I'm not gonna argue that they should be doing it differently. Each to his own, so long as it's safe, sane, and consensual. But I've always been a "better safe than sorry" gal, and I believe that life has a way of throwing bizarre circumstances at people. The better equipped you are to handle those, the better in my opinion. I may not foresee ever needing a safe word, but I want one anyway. Plus, I think its part of my responsibility as a sub to have one, and to take some of the responsibility for what happens during play. That way, he knows that if he ever isn't getting it, for whatever reason, or fails to see a problem I can see, I have a way to unambiguously let him know. It's part of working as a team, in my humble opinion.

(in reply to lizi)

Post #: 33

RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 1:26:22 PM

MasterSlaveLA

Posts: 3991
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

my safe word is simply either STOP, or ENOUGH.

I just poop on the rug... works just as good to STOP things!!!

(kidding)

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Post #: 34

RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 3:50:21 PM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

I just poop on the rug... works just as good to STOP things!!! (kidding)

That reminds me of the one and only useful thing I ever learnt from a road safety talk.

If you're in a car with a man who's speeding enough to scare you, and who refuses to slow down when you ask, say that you're going to be sick.

Apparently it works every time!

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Post #: 35

RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 5:29:19 PM

Dewolfsslave

Posts: 31
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When Master and i first played, he gave me a 'safeword' to use: his given name. No need to try to remember anything complicated or obscure in the heat of the moment, and although i never had to do so, it struck me as the most sensible approach i had ever encountered. i have on occasion let him know that something needed his attention, for example, my wrists have gone numb, adjustments were made, and play resumed.

We don't use humiliation as play, although he doesn't pull his punches verbally at times. If it is simply a case that he needs to vent and i am the nearest (and safest) available target, then i pretty much ignore it. If i find what was said to be hurtful and i have trouble just shrugging it off, then i will wait until he has calmed down, then ask permission to talk about it, and we will discuss things calmly like adults. In our relationship we have reached the stage of complete ownership, and complete trust, and he also knows me well enough by now to know how i am likely to react to any given stimulus. But i don't expect him to be able to read my mind. Safewords are no longer an option, but calm and repectful discussion is allowed and expected, if i have a problem with anything that happens. But in the early stages, if i had ever needed to call a halt to proceedings by using a safeword, whether for something i couldn't handle mentally or physically, and it had been ignored, then the relationship would likely have ended. Trust and respect are vital, and go both ways.

(in reply to fallon0627)

Post #: 36

RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 6:25:49 PM

RaspberryLemon

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Joined: 7/18/2011
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We don't use a safeword, I've always felt that they sort of cheapen or invalidate the experience. If I say "no," "stop," or "ow" or if I sound like or say I don't like something--I'm being 100% honest and I'm not playing around, and he understands that. I trust him. We communicate rationally and clearly, and that's all that's needed for us. We have rules in place that we set up together, and anything he wants to do/wants me to do that is within the boundaries of those rules is acceptable--if I don't like it and he still wants to go through with it, too bad. Thankfully I have a Master that doesn't like to see me in pain or emotional distress.

That being said, my relationship with my Master is one that could be described as absolute. i.e., we're not just fucking around here. I would recommend you use a safeword if you are just doing something casual with someone who doesn't know you too well, or if you feel that it is necessary because of lack of trust or you're worried about boundaries being crossed--physical OR mental. Then again, if you're worried about that I think you have communication issues and that's a problem in and of itself.

(in reply to lizi)

Post #: 37

RE: Mental vs physical - 8/7/2011 11:49:29 PM

phoenixmoonn13

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although i have a safe word i never use it as master knows my reactions and often better than i do in play. we dont use stop as i may say stop but dont really mean it he knows teh difference. i am one of those who hates to use it which is why him knowing me is better. as someone said if after the 10 or 15th time you stil need it somthings wrong i disagree we have been togetehr over 2 years and there was once for somereason every small hit felt like fire and i had to use it he was only lightly touching (turned out i was ill but he was having a hard time believing the signal i was giving were that it was to mcuh the only time i have used it)

(in reply to lizi)

Post #: 38

RE: Mental vs physical - 8/8/2011 9:31:02 AM

sunshinemiss

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Sunny
Quote of the Day
goes to
crazyml

for

A safeword should be an unambiguous thing,
it's a crystal clear withdrawal of consent.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3799274/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#3799486

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Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

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Post #: 39

RE: Mental vs physical - 8/8/2011 11:48:40 AM

Ninebelowzero

Posts: 3134
Joined: 8/5/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fallon0627

Thank you for your replies. I am fairly new and use safewords with impact play. When it came up about wanting to safeword on a particular mental/humiliation play; he is of the mind set that no there is no safe word with humiliation. I guess I wanted feed back on what others think on this or if someone has experience in this area. Fairly soon I will have to decide if his way of thinking is a path I want to take. Any feed back would be helpful.

So you've had the day from hell at work, a parent/close friend is seriously ill & you walk in to get an instant verbal assault & you aren't capable of dealing with it on any level.
A true Dom/Top would appreciate that you need safewords for all play. IMO.#

(in reply to fallon0627)

Post #: 40

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