Is the "Christian Right" movement "revenge-based" rather than theologically based? (Full Version)

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Fightdirecto -> Is the "Christian Right" movement "revenge-based" rather than theologically based? (8/5/2011 10:05:42 AM)

Why the Christian Right Becomes More Extreme As America Grows More Tolerant
quote:

The rigidity of Christian Right politics has been a complicating factor in governing the United States for the past several decades, stripping away flexibility needed to negotiate on issues as diverse as policies in the Middle East, abortion, health care and the federal budget.

Gone is the more practical approach of assessing government actions based on what might help the country the most – and compromising with those who have differing opinions. Everything, it seems, gets measured by some Christian fundamentalist yardstick of what’s right and wrong.

Adding to this religious style of politics has been a deep sense of victimhood among right-wing Evangelicals, as if Christians were some persecuted minority in the United States, threatened by all-powerful Muslims imposing Sharia law or secular humanists banning Christmas.

Repeated endlessly on right-wing talk radio, these paranoid messages have become real to millions of these religiously inspired voters. So, political adversaries must not only be bested, but crushed. After all, they represent strategies of the anti-Christ.


What happens next with this religious/political phenomenon could dramatically influence the future direction of the United States, a nation founded on principles of religious tolerance and respect for free debate and political diversity...

The American Evangelical-political leaders, according to Martin Palmer, Secretary General of the Alliance of Religions and Conservation (ARC), are upset at not retaining the White House consistently after the presidency of Ronald Reagan. They see evil and the devil as the forces preventing them from creating a faith-based government.

At this point, the Evangelical Right wants the entire administrative structure of the secular state torn down in order to create a “New Jerusalem” and to hasten the Apocalypse...

With the election of Ronald Reagan in 1980, the Christian Right foresaw a national conversion, with Americans accepting the Bible in the way fundamentalist Christians interpreted its teachings. With America providing that light onto other nations, Christianity would be on a triumphant march.

However, that failed to happen. Despite right-wing gains in terms of tax policy and other benefits for the rich, the nation has continued its gradual evolution toward a more tolerant and a more secular society. For instance, polls show growing acceptance of homosexuality and gay marriage, two hot-button issues for Christian fundamentalists.

The American Evangelicals felt that after Reagan, they were entitled to power, Palmer said. That is why, they couldn’t understand the election of Bill Clinton. In the Evangelical mind, Clinton was an interloper to “their” White House.

The election of Barack Obama, America’s first black president, came as a particular shock to many white Evangelicals, especially because of his Muslim father and his Muslim name. This resistance to accepting Obama as a “legitimate” president was part of what fueled the hysteria over his supposedly forged birth certificate.

“Obama,”
Palmer said, “left them bewildered,” thus the non-negotiating position taken by the right-wing Evangelicals on almost all of the administration efforts.

“I think what you are now witnessing, and it’s not among the majority, is a group of people that thought they were within grasp of taking power and making America once again a holy country, a holy city, the new Jerusalem,"
Palmer said.

Their failure would be a rejection of God and must not be tolerated. However, Palmer said, in reality, “this was not the rejection of Christianity, but rather the rejection of this rather narrow kind of Christianity. I think it has driven them to ask why.”

So, the search for the devil continues, with Obama filling the bill and his allies – liberals and Democrats – serving the role that witches once did. There can be no thought of negotiating with these forces of “evil,” as far as the Christian Right is concerned.

Any manifestation of contemporary society that they feel does not fit their vision of how the world should be is the work of the devil,” Palmer said...

However, Palmer thinks the hard-core Evangelical movement will eventually “burn itself out” because of its unwillingness to search for compromise solutions.

The Ideological Religious (examples: Christian Reconstructionists/Domininionists/"Religious Right") and Ideological Atheists (examples: Sam Harris/Richard Dawkins) do not understand and accept that although an individual may settle the question of God or no God to his personal satisfaction, it is highly unlikely that all human beings will settle it in the same way.

Their position is that any thinking human who does not agree with them on the existence or non-existence of God is a danger to society as a whole and must be eliminated in some way or, at a minimum, disenfranchised and made second-class citizens. The Ideological Religious and the Ideological Atheists both wish the 1st Amendment guarantee of religious free exercise repealed - so that they can use the civil law to criminalize any religious belief or non-belief other than their own belief or non-belief.

Hopefully, Palmer is right and both the Ideological Religious and the Ideological Atheists will eventually “burn itself out” because of their unwillingness to compromise.

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DomYngBlk -> RE: Is the "Christian Right" movement "revenge-based" rather than theologically based? (8/5/2011 10:06:40 AM)

Yes




MileHighM -> RE: Is the "Christian Right" movement "revenge-based" rather than theologically based? (8/5/2011 10:22:02 AM)

Yes....

But That is true for moonbats in general. Same can be said for extremist on the other side. FD you need to just crusade against extremism in general...anyone with extreme points of view cannot be tolerant regardless of what they claim




JWriter -> RE: Is the "Christian Right" movement "revenge-based" rather than theologically based? (8/5/2011 10:23:49 AM)

quote:

stripping away flexibility needed to negotiate on issues as diverse as policies in the Middle East, abortion, health care and the federal budget.

In my viewpoint, this is true of all political or religious groups, in that to be truly "For" something, you must necessarily, whether you say you are or not, be "Against" the things that deny it and/or are opposite of it.
If you are for abortion, you are against anti-abortion. If your against abortion, you are for anti-abortion. It's that simple. It doesn't matter WHY you have made that choice, the choice is made and the line is rigid, and, that is exactly why it is supposed to be MAJORITY rule. If the majority is for it or against it, they will get what they asked for, at least in theory. It doesn't matter how loud the minority is, if it is something the majority thinks they are wrong about.
There s nothing wrong with being for this, or against that, and saying it boldly. That's what people are supposed to do. That is why America exists, is because some people were really frigging sick of being told that they did not have the right to choose such things.
I do believe we should stop at murder, and, just make it wrong for everyone, even the woman who is carrying the child she wishes to murder, and, I do have the right to say so. I do not have the right to make her believe it, though, since the laws are in her favor. Well, then, do I have the right to try to change the laws? If not, why not? The people who believed the opposite of me went ahead and got them changed, from when it used to be illegal to have abortions, didn't they?
If you think it is wrong, if you think it is right, whatever it is, live by those standards, proclaim those standards, and hope the majority is with you, The incessant whining that people do over people refusing to kowtow to their beliefs, people refusing to do what they want, is ridiculous. If you want to force people to agree with you, you're a tyrant, and, have no right to complain if you think someone else is being tyrannical, as well.

There is no flexibility and negotiation when it comes to things that cause death. There is no such thing as a little bit of being dead. War causes death, abortion causes death, lack of health care or the wrong care instead of the right care causes death. One does not need to be considerate of everyone else's feelings. One needs to actually be right, in doing what is best for all, which means people need the information and they need to take responsibility for using that information to make their own informed decision.

I, personally, think the Christian Right movement is enormously wrong, on many fronts, including the fact that they (Christians) are to be no part of this world and that means not engaging in politics. But, they are humans, citizens of a country, and, have the right to be heard, the same as anyone else and they will be heard, having the same motives as every other political organization on the face of the earth: to have things their way or as close to it as possible, because, they think they are right.







FirstQuaker -> RE: Is the "Christian Right" movement "revenge-based" rather than theologically based? (8/5/2011 11:04:17 AM)

Though it is a bit more complex then just this, and requires looking into just how Europeans view the world, the answer is a qualified yes.

You must recall the many centuries of religious wars, forced conversions, state run churches, regional monarchs burning one sect at the stake one year and another the next, while fighting long wars among each other over such stupidities like if the Christian god has one aspect or three , worldwide conquests, enslavement  and genocides in the name of the Christian god and their manifest destiny to carry the white man's burden to all lands, and the mythos behind this conduct.

Now this Christian Taliban  looks behind them from 'their' outpost in the Americas and sees their mythological Europe in what they regard as ruins and being conquered by what they regards as the forces of evil,  and these absolutist crusanders of their medieval culture find themselves increasingly surrounded and marginalized in what they consider 'their' own lands, and like a trapped animal lash out at all about them.




nephandi -> RE: Is the "Christian Right" movement "revenge-based" rather than theologically based? (8/5/2011 11:09:45 AM)

Greetings

I have a very short answer to this, hell yes! Is it only about revenge no off course not, but it is an unbending, angry philosophy that bases much of it's points on yes revenge.

I wish you all well




LaTigresse -> RE: Is the "Christian Right" movement "revenge-based" rather than theologically based? (8/5/2011 11:12:00 AM)

I think it stems from fear.......and revenge. But primarily fear.




flcouple2009 -> RE: Is the "Christian Right" movement "revenge-based" rather than theologically based? (8/5/2011 11:44:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I think it stems from fear.......and revenge. But primarily fear.


Yes,  there is a lot of fear.  That and no matter what they truly do believe they are right and know what is best for everyone.




nephandi -> RE: Is the "Christian Right" movement "revenge-based" rather than theologically based? (8/5/2011 2:42:22 PM)

Greetings

quote:

I think it stems from fear.......and revenge. But primarily fear.


Good point, I agree with you here.

Be Well




FirmhandKY -> RE: Is the "Christian Right" movement "revenge-based" rather than theologically based? (8/5/2011 4:12:14 PM)

Total fucking loony horseshit.

People who pedal this type of crud are the narrow-minded, intolerant bigots.

Firm




StrangerThan -> RE: Is the "Christian Right" movement "revenge-based" rather than theologically based? (8/5/2011 5:34:24 PM)

Who the fuck became more tolerant?

Before we go anywhere else, explain that ignorant piece of horseshit.

The so-called tolerant crowd have done nothing more than shift the focus of their hatred. 




imperatrixx -> RE: Is the "Christian Right" movement "revenge-based" rather than theologically based? (8/5/2011 6:18:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Total fucking loony horseshit.

People who pedal this type of crud are the narrow-minded, intolerant bigots.

Firm



It's really not.

You always seemed like one of the more reasonable conservatives here...can't you see that thpeople like that exist?




flcouple2009 -> RE: Is the "Christian Right" movement "revenge-based" rather than theologically based? (8/5/2011 6:58:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Total fucking loony horseshit.

People who pedal this type of crud are the narrow-minded, intolerant bigots.

Firm



It's really not.

You always seemed like one of the more reasonable conservatives here...can't you see that thpeople like that exist?


Boy have you been fooled.  Firm's confirmation bias doesn't work that way.  His ideological blinders do not allow him to see those types.




erieangel -> RE: Is the "Christian Right" movement "revenge-based" rather than theologically based? (8/5/2011 7:37:38 PM)

Yes, it is based on revenge. But also on fear--the religious right seem to be afraid of everything--even death.




cloudboy -> RE: Is the "Christian Right" movement "revenge-based" rather than theologically based? (8/5/2011 8:03:10 PM)

quote:

So, the search for the devil continues, with Obama filling the bill and his allies – liberals and Democrats – serving the role that witches once did. There can be no thought of negotiating with these forces of “evil,” as far as the Christian Right is concerned.


Bi-partisanship is akin to date-rape.

--Grover Norquist




Fightdirecto -> RE: Is the "Christian Right" movement "revenge-based" rather than theologically based? (8/5/2011 8:21:06 PM)

I see the term "revenge-based" for this thread in this way:

"We have told you the TRUTH and you reject the TRUTH - therefore you are the Devil or one of his followers and we have an obligation to convert you or eliminate you."




Real0ne -> RE: Is the "Christian Right" movement "revenge-based" rather than theologically based? (8/5/2011 10:05:56 PM)

no but the atheist left is.




Real0ne -> RE: Is the "Christian Right" movement "revenge-based" rather than theologically based? (8/5/2011 10:09:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

Why the Christian Right Becomes More Extreme As America Grows More Tolerant

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tazzygirl -> RE: Is the "Christian Right" movement "revenge-based" rather than theologically based? (8/5/2011 11:00:59 PM)

quote:

The Ideological Religious (examples: Christian Reconstructionists/Domininionists/"Religious Right")


This is a problem for me.. along with the following...

quote:

Ideological Atheists (examples: Sam Harris/Richard Dawkins)


Do all atheists believe like Harris or Dawkins?  Do they all agree with their pov's?

Who are you referring too as the Ideological Religious?

Is it the assumption that all religious people believe as they do?




popeye1250 -> RE: Is the "Christian Right" movement "revenge-based" rather than theologically based? (8/6/2011 1:03:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Yes


DYB, I don't know any Christian "right" or Christian "left."
Sounds like you know a few.
Are you the organist in church?




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