RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons

RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons (7/28/2011 11:08:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Anarrus quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic HAHAHAH regulations?? in private business? how dare there be ANY regulations! Let people like Locked and Wilbur own prisons.. there to me is a damn fine reason to leave the city and state, watch the death and violence rates, and reports of inhuman conditions within six months. If they are allowed contact with the outside world Also watch people being sentenced 5-10 for a burned out taillight if there's $$ to be made[:D] heh[sm=agree.gif]

WebWanderer -> RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons (7/28/2011 11:10:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail 2. This is wholly specious, and unfounded. Why? Do you really believe that government never wastes any money and operates in the most rational and efficient manner? LOL... (Disclaimer: I'm not a rabid Tea Bagger or anything - merely a realist.)

pahunkboy -> RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons (7/28/2011 11:21:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WebWanderer quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Because MY TAX MONEY went to build the public infrastructure. I would not give away my yard- just because I want cheaper grass cut- when I paid for my house. Prisons were built with YOUR TAX MONEY. No for profit corporation is going to take it for the public good. Too much of our public commons is placed into private hands. quote: YOUR TAX MONEY Option 1. You are just posturing and trying to raise some noise, and don't really care about the issue. Option 2. You fail to understand that the private sector can do almost anything cheaper than the government. Ergo, privatizing our prisons will save YOUR TAX MONEY (sic) and reduce waste. Which is it? I am going to privatize the road in front of your house and make it into a toll way.

mnottertail -> RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons (7/28/2011 11:21:38 AM)
No, nor do I believe that corporations do, either. But why do you people couch things in such aversarial and impudent terms? ARE YOU SAYING that you are a convict and you will get a better deal from a for profit corporation? Same as what you did. The correct opinion that there is absolutely no proof of this and that it is an old wives tale, is easily refutable with fact, and if you have those, then do it, do not elide the conversation with impugnations.

imperatrixx -> RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons (7/28/2011 11:23:33 AM)
To me, there is a crucial difference. The government pays for running prisons. Since it costs them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in reducing the prison population. Private companies get paid for running prisons. Since it makes them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in keeping the prison population right where it is.

WebWanderer -> RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons (7/28/2011 11:27:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy I am going to privatize the road in front of your house and make it into a toll way. False analogy. Your analogy would work if - and only if - the government had already charged me for using the road, and the corporation could do the same task, but with less waste. Try again.

rulemylife -> RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons (7/28/2011 11:28:03 AM)
quote: . quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam There's a big difference between nukes and prison hunky. If a private firm can do the job as well and do it more cheaply, i say have at it. Then we should privatize everything. Including Social Security. Wait, never mind, I think someone had this idea already.

pahunkboy -> RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons (7/28/2011 11:28:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WebWanderer quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy I am going to privatize the road in front of your house and make it into a toll way. False analogy. Your analogy would work if - and only if - the government had already charged me for using the road, and the corporation could do the same task, but with less waste. Try again. WRONG

mnottertail -> RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons (7/28/2011 11:30:25 AM)
Uh, can't go that far. The prisons are more or less at the whim of those in power for capacities. You get these get tough law and order cockbreaths that want to slam everybody with a joint for 20 years, and the slobberers are going 'Noiners!!!!' A for profit company has a vested interest in expanding and making more than they did last year, and will lobby the fuck outta congresses and government officials to make more severe penalties, all the while cutting costs and grabbing bonus and engaging in nefariousness. And if the population decreases, then they have to skin the cat somewhere to boost profits, and it aint like any oversight happens to insure they are dogooders, it is out of sight, out of mind until the fit hits the shan somewheres.

WebWanderer -> RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons (7/28/2011 11:30:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy WRONG I shall waste no more of my time since it is clear that your debate skills are far superior to mine. Good day, sir.

rulemylife -> RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons (7/28/2011 11:38:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WebWanderer Why? Do you really believe that government never wastes any money and operates in the most rational and efficient manner? LOL... (Disclaimer: I'm not a rabid Tea Bagger or anything - merely a realist.) Nice face.

Moonhead -> RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons (7/28/2011 11:55:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: imperatrixx To me, there is a crucial difference. The government pays for running prisons. Since it costs them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in reducing the prison population. Private companies get paid for running prisons. Since it makes them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in keeping the prison population right where it is. Or increasing the prison population, particularly if that's providing them with an even cheaper labour pool than China...

Hillwilliam -> RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons (7/28/2011 11:56:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: imperatrixx To me, there is a crucial difference. The government pays for running prisons. Since it costs them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in reducing the prison population. Private companies get paid for running prisons. Since it makes them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in keeping the prison population right where it is. You would be amazed how many judges have a vested interest in 'counseling services". They sentence someone to probation with the understanding they attend said 'counseling'. Late 1 minute, you are in violation of probation. Warrant issued and you start over with the judge pocketing the $.

TheGorenSociety -> RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons (7/28/2011 12:30:33 PM)
It is and always has been about money and power.Those in power want to keep and want more. Those with out it, want to take down those who have it. The State already has pretty much cleared out any money left in the States prison coffers years ago. The PBA union have taken pretty much anything else left in the system. The system is broken and is nothing more then a money ponzi scheme to reape, I mean rape as much money out of relatives of inmates as possible with out being charged with extortion. Having dealt with the States prison system both as a vendor and visitor to the State's prison's, the only thing this will do is make a bad situation worse.Neither of the two private prison vendors deserves the contract.Nor does the State to be honest. All of them need to be taken out to the wood shed and whipped with out mercy. Currently the real population growth is in the county detention system, since if you incarcerate anyone for less then one year they stay in the county of residence. The best solution is to give the State prisons to the counties in question and have those sheriff's take over the prison's and be paid for state prisoners like they have been.. When you are incarcerated on any State charge you are automatically a charge of the State, even while waiting for trial. As such the State pays a daily fee to the county sheriff for each inmate. By removing the primary duty of the Department of corrections and placing them into a purely supervisory role, they could devote resources back to inspection, training and improving over inmate well being. By forcing the State to use the county sheriff system already in place, it would also force the entire prison guard system back to the sheriff's requirements. Take away the profit motive for both the State, county and private prison management and you remove most of the problem in running the system.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons (7/28/2011 12:42:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: imperatrixx To me, there is a crucial difference. The government pays for running prisons. Since it costs them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in reducing the prison population. Private companies get paid for running prisons. Since it makes them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in keeping the prison population right where it is. The government is never concerned with cost savings and "reducing the prison population". They (at least in CA) are so in the pocket of the public service unions that get them elected that they are interested in padding their salaries and benefits to asinine levels. Private companies have no control over who does or doesnt enter the prison population. Totally bogus argument.

philosophy -> RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons (7/28/2011 12:42:39 PM)
FR Working for profit is an important part of any reasonable society. Those who work hard, who innovate, or are even just lucky make cash and whats wrong with that? Having said that, the legal system is something that should have absolutely nothing to do with profit. The legal system should concern itself with just one thing.....guilt or innocence. Once it becomes profitable to favour one over the other then the potential for abuse skyrockets. And, sadly, as we have learned......once the potential for abuse is allowed to continue then someone, somewhere will abuse it.

pahunkboy -> RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons (7/28/2011 12:43:21 PM)
In PA 3 years is state- less then that is county.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons (7/28/2011 12:43:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: imperatrixx To me, there is a crucial difference. The government pays for running prisons. Since it costs them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in reducing the prison population. Private companies get paid for running prisons. Since it makes them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in keeping the prison population right where it is. You would be amazed how many judges have a vested interest in 'counseling services". They sentence someone to probation with the understanding they attend said 'counseling'. Late 1 minute, you are in violation of probation. Warrant issued and you start over with the judge pocketing the $. ORLY. Go ahead, amaze me...with facts.

mnottertail -> RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons (7/28/2011 12:45:21 PM)
As you have never amazed us.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Florida Looks For The Lowest Bidder As It Privatizes 30 State Prisons (7/28/2011 1:20:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: imperatrixx To me, there is a crucial difference. The government pays for running prisons. Since it costs them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in reducing the prison population. Private companies get paid for running prisons. Since it makes them money, they (theoretically) have a vested interest in keeping the prison population right where it is. You would be amazed how many judges have a vested interest in 'counseling services". They sentence someone to probation with the understanding they attend said 'counseling'. Late 1 minute, you are in violation of probation. Warrant issued and you start over with the judge pocketing the $. ORLY. Go ahead, amaze me...with facts. "Crossroads" is a privately owned rehab/counseling center that operates locally. http://www.manta.com/c/mmnpp96/crossroads-area-alcohol-drug-rehabilitation-association . It is owned by the wife of the local judge and does over $500,000 in business annually. Theres your facts. amazed yet? There was also a case in PA recently where a juvenile judge was removed from the bench for referring kids to a 'boot camp' that he recieved referral fees (kickbacks) for either very minor offenses or charges that were later shown to be total bullshit. Oh lookie. More facts. http://abcnews.go.com/US/mark-ciavarella-pa-juvenile-court-judge-convicted-alleged/story?id=12965182&page=3

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