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How can this go on ??Church Hypocrisy and Gay marriage - 6/21/2011 5:03:15 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		With his cigars, blogs, Jameson’s and Irish affability, New York Archbishop Timothy Dolan prides himself on his gumption. Certainly his effort to kill the gay marriage bill, just one vote away from passing in Albany, shows a lot of gall. The archbishop has been ferocious in fighting against marriage between same-sex couples, painting it as a perversity against nature. If only his church had been as ferocious in fighting against the true perversity against nature: the unending horror of pedophile priests and the children who trusted them. In the second-generation round of the Church vs. Cuomo, Archbishop Dolan is pitted against Andrew Cuomo, the Catholic governor who is fiercely pushing for New York to become the sixth and most populous state to approve gay marriage. <snip> for the point of my post
In yet another attempt at rationalization, the nation’s Catholic bishops — a group Dolan is now in charge of — put out a ridiculous five-year-study last month going with the “blame Woodstock” explanation for the sex-abuse scandal. The report suggested that the problem was caused by permissive secular society rather than cloistered church culture, because priests were trained in the turbulent free-love era. It concluded, absurdly, that neither the all-male celibate priesthood nor homosexuality were causes. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/19/opinion/19dowd.html?_r=1&ref=maureendowd

How can they just be so blind to deny the horrific numbers of children who have been molested by parish priests down to simply being the victims fault because of the time period.
One of the reasons Henry 8th used to dissolve the monasteries back in the 15th century were because they were openly having women and their offspring living in the abbeys, that their useage of "children" a regular occurrence.
This has been the ugly way the "church" has dealt with their fuckups. Its about time it stopped, its despicable, its wrong and its harmful to anyone who has had their innocence destroyed by a"man of the cloth" worse, a trusted believable and well known man of "god"
Even without  the denial of same sex marriage, why is the hypocrisy not being questioned by the lambs  in the flocks...is the faith blinding them to the ugliness of hypocrisy and hate???
I cant stomach the thought tho I have to admit, I just have to shudder in disgust.
By the time they get their damn judgement, its too late for the kids they've fucked over.




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RE: How can this go on ??Church Hypocrisy and Gay marriage - 6/21/2011 5:31:42 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		At the same meeting that produced that ridiculous "blame Woodstock" rationalization the Bishops voted to keep their policies largely the same,ignoring victims advocates who were hoping for meaningful change.....one retired Archbishop actually proposed an amendment to get rid of the "zero tolerance" provision on abuse so that some guilty priests could possibly be returned to parish work.Normally this is where I would insert the statement THANK GOD FOR THAT....but somehow that would seem hollow at this moment and in this discussion.
Most of the above is a direct quote from Miss Dowds excellent piece...save for some editorializing I added at the end....I would not presume to present her work as my own....She works for the hated NY Times,but in my opinion she is one he'll of a writer.

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RE: How can this go on ??Church Hypocrisy and Gay marriage - 6/21/2011 7:46:56 PM   
submittous


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Status: offline 		You're seriously asking 'how can Catholic church hypocrisy go on?' really?

It'll be news when it ISN'T going on.

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RE: How can this go on ??Church Hypocrisy and Gay marriage - 6/21/2011 7:51:42 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		I thought it was a very good question...especially when it is juxtaposed against the backdrop of the issue of abuse of children.Personally I can't think of a better question to ask...or a better way to ask it.As far as I am concerned there is no way to shine too much light on either if these issues.
The questions should be asked...the answers demanded until and if we can ever get a satisfactory answer to them.

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RE: How can this go on ??Church Hypocrisy and Gay marriage - 6/21/2011 8:15:50 PM   
tweakabelle


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Status: offline 		Church hypocrisy to cease????

It's been around for about 2,000 years. I'm unable to see any reason why it's going to stop now. I wish I wasn't.

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RE: How can this go on ??Church Hypocrisy and Gay marriage - 6/21/2011 8:25:42 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		Perhaps I phrased that wrong...Im not silly enough to expect church hypocrisy to be magically eradicated....but I am hopeful...and desirous that a)civil authorities force the church to stop stonewalling what is a felony crime(molesting a minor)
b)the church itself address in a real and concrete fashion the dirty little secret that is in their midst.c) secular and elected officials stop being swayed by the theocratic authority of these men.These men have no business playing the outsized role that they do in political decisions....in my view the church should not be allowed to lobby secular authority...and were an individual priest,bishop or what have you feel the need to lobby his elected officials...let him do so after removing his collar...so to speak.
Perhaps even those are unreasonable desires....but in ,y eyes the church is the last place I want to be giving morality lessons to anyone

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RE: How can this go on ??Church Hypocrisy and Gay marriage - 6/21/2011 11:05:01 PM   
erieangel


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Status: offline 		Church hypocrisy is exactly why i left it at the tender age of 13. For the past 30+ years i've been by turns agnostic or atheist. if there is a god, i'm sure She has a nice hot place for all these hypocrites to spend eternity, though by then it is too late for the innocent souls damaged.

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RE: How can this go on ??Church Hypocrisy and Gay marriage - 6/22/2011 12:46:37 AM   
HannahLynHeather


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quote:

How can they just be so blind to deny the horrific numbers of children who have been molested by parish priests down to simply being the victims fault because of the time period.
because they are fucking priests. lying is their stock and trade. its what they do for a living, it's their whole fucking raison d'etre.

quote:

Even without  the denial of same sex marriage, why is the hypocrisy not being questioned by the lambs  in the flocks...is the faith blinding them to the ugliness of hypocrisy and hate???
because they are believers. faith doesn't cause blindness, blindness causes faith.


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RE: How can this go on ??Church Hypocrisy and Gay marriage - 6/22/2011 12:48:52 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		But arent the faithful also parents...and by that I mean aren't they the parents of the victims of the abuse...and the victims of octracation(sp,is that even a word?).
What kind of parent actualy believes that their god demands that they sacrifice their children to his church?
MY son is sacred to me....nothing and I mean nothing comes before him.

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Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: How can this go on ??Church Hypocrisy and Gay marriage - 6/22/2011 12:55:32 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		I cannot respect any religion that justifies this behaviour. It makes me crazy that its not going to end anytime soon.
One of the reasons I am disgusted with organised religion of any kind, they are the original old boys clubs, protecting their own at any cost to innocent lives. Corruption of adults is one thing, corruption of innocence will never be right.

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RE: How can this go on ??Church Hypocrisy and Gay marriage - 6/22/2011 12:56:08 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

What kind of parent actualy believes that their god demands that they sacrifice their children to his church?



An idiot. Unfortunately, history is filled with instances of this and it isn't just the Jedaeo-Christians either.

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RE: How can this go on ??Church Hypocrisy and Gay marriage - 6/22/2011 1:02:51 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		Too true..but that is what this thread is dealing with....and as it happens to be the church I was raised in...it is what is stuck in my craw today.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: How can this go on ??Church Hypocrisy and Gay marriage - 6/22/2011 1:06:38 PM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I cannot respect any religion that justifies this behaviour. It makes me crazy that its not going to end anytime soon.
One of the reasons I am disgusted with organized religion of any kind, they are the original old boys clubs, protecting their own at any cost to innocent lives. Corruption of adults is one thing, corruption of innocence will never be right.


This. Only said much nicer than I would.


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RE: How can this go on ??Church Hypocrisy and Gay marriage - 6/22/2011 1:12:43 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		One reads about the financial difficulties of the archdiocese in Boston and LA...and see's some of these judgements against them...and the knee jerk reaction is that this is obscene......in truth the only thing obscene about this whole chapter has been the behavior of the church...and as far as I am concerned they can all go back to wearing sackcloth and living in hovels.....The victims will and do lose something that can never be replaced.....their innocence,their trust...and their very childhoods.
Damm to hell for all time any who would violate a child....damm them.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: How can this go on ??Church Hypocrisy and Gay marriage - 6/22/2011 1:14:20 PM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		I have a few other things I prefer over damnation.........but that's just me and my,  not so inner, sadist talking.

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: How can this go on ??Church Hypocrisy and Gay marriage - 6/22/2011 1:19:05 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		LaTige please do not overlook that prior to the damnation I prefer they be stripped of all of their worldly possessions....take them from their lofty perches....bar them from entering the corridors of power so as they can no longer wield their influence.
But that's just me...and I don't have a sadistic bone in my body....I just remember what it was like to be a child....and how damm precious that time is...no man,wearer of a clerical collar or not has the right to strip that from the children.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: How can this go on ??Church Hypocrisy and Gay marriage - 6/22/2011 1:19:07 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Myself, I find the notion that Bishops are hiding the evidence of venal sins and then trying to claim that homosexuals are more damned than they are hysterically funny. (Do they ask everybody with a tattoo or who fails to eat a kosher diet to leave the church as well, if they're big on Leviticus?) That's just me, though.

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RE: How can this go on ??Church Hypocrisy and Gay marriage - 6/22/2011 1:27:33 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

What kind of parent actualy believes that their god demands that they sacrifice their children to his church?


Abraham

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RE: How can this go on ??Church Hypocrisy and Gay marriage - 6/22/2011 1:28:24 PM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

How can they just be so blind to deny the horrific numbers of children who have been molested by parish priests down to simply being the victims fault because of the time period.

I cant stomach the thought tho I have to admit, I just have to shudder in disgust.
By the time they get their damn judgement, its too late for the kids they've fucked over.


And, never forget, the present pope (when a Cardinal, charged with "investigating" the atrocities) wrote warning letters to all bishops, threatening them and anyone else Catholic within their “flocks”* with excommunication if they cooperated with police and social services investigations into said paedophilia.

The Irish government's report into the scandal is a multi-volume tome, and much of what is quoted there is the worst kind of evil; not just the acts themselves, but the lying, rhetoric and downright evil in the denials, as well as the targeting of anyone who dared to speak out, either as victim or witness. Suicides were reported in the wake of people being cut off from their own communities, targeted for revenge for doing nothing more than speaking the truth, and speaking up for the children, and all that sanctioned and encouraged by the church. It was widespread, organised, and sanctioned at the highest level.

The Catholic church is one of the greatest forces of evil left in the modern world, and only the incredible hypocrisy of their brand image and marketing keeps their heads above water.

I almost wish I did believe in an afterlife, because if there's one sure thing left, then it's that those who perpetrated such a systematic abomination, as well as those who helped cover it up, would surely burn in hell forever.

*”as sheep unto the slaughter”

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RE: How can this go on ??Church Hypocrisy and Gay marriage - 6/22/2011 1:29:32 PM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

LaTige please do not overlook that prior to the damnation I prefer they be stripped of all of their worldly possessions....take them from their lofty perches....bar them from entering the corridors of power so as they can no longer wield their influence.
But that's just me...and I don't have a sadistic bone in my body....I just remember what it was like to be a child....and how damm precious that time is...no man,wearer of a clerical collar or not has the right to strip that from the children.


Mike, except for the evil sadistic bitch part, we are on the same page. It just hurts my heart.


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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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