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RE: Scary Common Ground - 6/21/2011 6:26:56 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

I agree, but apparently this has been going on a long time, and through different administrations. I know the Japanese can be leaders in some industries, but I don't want to follow their recent examples.


Hahaha... It's been going on since at least the time when I graduated college  and worked in a nearby plant as an associate reactor operator (least I think that was the title). Back then it was a leaky mess INSIDE... And I doubt much has improved.
   But a sad fact of life is that power companies won't use their profits to build new energy producing plants OF ANY KIND of new energy producing plants on the replacement scale without nearly full subsidy by the american people. Their business model these days is get the tax payer to pay for build and then go fuck him as the consumer. And our second largest energy producer isn't even an American company. In the good old days, that would have been considered catastrophic... 10 years ago however, it was heralded as one of the great victories of privatization.


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RE: Scary Common Ground - 6/21/2011 6:39:25 AM   
erieangel


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Status: offline 		Our form of capitalism has become totally privatized gain/socialized risks and losses. We give millions of dollars a year to industries that are making record profits but can not afford to educate our children, take care of our elderly, our poor or our disabled. If i remember my 20th century right, this same kind of mindset is what led to the Great Depression. i can't help but wonder how bad it get for us working stiffs in the future.

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RE: Scary Common Ground - 6/21/2011 7:33:17 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:


1) I don't have an issue with Nuclear Power.


Course you don't. And going to the number one nuclear energy lobby group for your 'facts' makes that pretty self-evident.
  This agency btw, is the chief reason for the weakening of regulatory policy in the US.

I'm surprised they got rid of their "yellow-cake makes a pretty damned good depilatory" pitch.


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RE: Scary Common Ground - 6/21/2011 7:44:31 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

If i remember my 20th century right, this same kind of mindset is what led to the Great Depression.


Not to over simplify, but yeah, you pretty much do remember it correctly. I've read a few very poorly supported articles to the contrary, but there's been some very good stuff in recent years in the broadcast media (PBS has two that are very good including a Frontline on that very topic ... I wanna say 2009), drawing very precise comparisons between the behavior of government and the financial industry during the two eras.


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RE: Scary Common Ground - 6/21/2011 7:47:44 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

I know the Japanese can be leaders in some industries, but I don't want to follow their recent examples.


This is one area where we could really learn a lot from the French.

Their technology far surpasses ours, mainly because ours has been on hold for decades.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 6/21/2011 7:49:30 AM >

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RE: Scary Common Ground - 6/21/2011 7:52:00 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

What about France ? They don't seem to have much in the way of problems.


1) The French are the kings of the "Who gives a shit?" philosophy when it comes to all things nuclear... They gave very little consideration to the treatment/handling of waste at the start of their nuclear odyssey ... among other issues I remember being discussed way back in my college days.

2)Who's been loading you up? Their woes just aren't frequently published in the US:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7522712.stm


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RE: Scary Common Ground - 6/21/2011 7:54:07 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		The french have one HUGE Problem
They are french


PPS Im channeling my father, apologies, it is meant as a JOKE

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RE: Scary Common Ground - 6/21/2011 7:57:14 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

The french have one HUGE Problem
They are french


Your supportive evidence my dear.... you can thank me later:

http://youtu.be/9V7zbWNznbs


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RE: Scary Common Ground - 6/21/2011 8:03:43 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

Their technology far surpasses ours, mainly because ours has been on hold for decades.


Oh yeah, light years ahead check out their advanced plan for nuclear waste management:

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=31466

Let's hope the Russians don't have an "economic vitalization plan" that involves the black marketing of nuclear waste materials to extremists with under the label "DirtyBomb Helper"


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RE: Scary Common Ground - 6/21/2011 8:50:22 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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Status: offline 		Didn't some of that radioactive Euro-trash end up off the coast of Somalia? Poisoning the fish? Killing kids? Forcing the once-self-sufficient Somali fishermen to take up another trade?

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RE: Scary Common Ground - 6/21/2011 10:16:29 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

Didn't some of that radioactive Euro-trash end up off the coast of Somalia? Poisoning the fish? Killing kids? Forcing the once-self-sufficient Somali fishermen to take up another trade?


Yeah, but it was more like everyone in the freaking world and apparently the Somalians courted the mafia... But I'll bet you any amount of money it wasn't spent fuel.
   Spent fuel has a good deal of value if it can make it to a black market.
   My guess is that this is NOT the waste from nuke plants. There are plenty of sources for nuclear waste.

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RE: Scary Common Ground - 6/21/2011 10:56:20 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

Didn't some of that radioactive Euro-trash end up off the coast of Somalia? Poisoning the fish? Killing kids? Forcing the once-self-sufficient Somali fishermen to take up another trade?


Yeah, but it was more like everyone in the freaking world and apparently the Somalians courted the mafia... But I'll bet you any amount of money it wasn't spent fuel.
   Spent fuel has a good deal of value if it can make it to a black market.
   My guess is that this is NOT the waste from nuke plants. There are plenty of sources for nuclear waste.

That's a good point. I don't know enough about the whole situation to be able to form a judgment about the Somali's justifications for picking up a new hobby. It could very well have been hospital and lab waste escorted to the sea off the Somali coast by the Sicilians.


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to SternSkipper)
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RE: Scary Common Ground - 6/21/2011 11:18:52 AM   
Termyn8or


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We got one major waterfall. Solar is a nosebleed right now until the technology gets better.

We don't want nukes and we don't want CO2.

Any other technology of which I am aware is also a pain in the ass.

What's left ?

There's really not a whole lot we can do to reduce consumption. Except for densely populated areas, industry uses a very large portion of the power produced. Of course now that alot of the industry gone, there should be less of a problem right ? I don't see it. So we don't have as much metal refining going on, or casting/molding. We still have to make planes and bombs, this requires power. The biomass is not going to do without toaster ovens and air conditioning.

Maybe they should just put a bunch of slow fission machines out in the middle of the desert somewhere, not subject to the NIMBY mentality. Nobody wants a nuclear power plant in their city, but they sure do like the juice it can produce. How about offshore ? Then we can pollute the ocean more.

Now how did the professor recharge the radio batteries on Gilligan's Island ?

Actually, the situation should eventually correct itself. Nukes and fossil fuel are just going to price themselves out of the market.

T^T

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RE: Scary Common Ground - 6/21/2011 11:32:24 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

Any other technology of which I am aware is also a pain in the ass.


I've got an idea, we send a treadmill to ohio!

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RE: Scary Common Ground - 6/21/2011 11:39:26 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

Any other technology of which I am aware is also a pain in the ass.


Seriously though, putting the rush on this bill here and revising it to give it's incentives toward development real teeth would be a good step forward.
  Course, with the crying opera clown as the house majority leader it's going to be a tough sell. It seems the GOP has decided to avoid the DEVELOPMENT of America's  future in favor of a fire sale mentality.
  If they only cut the republican pork that's out there they could pay for the most advanced and accelerated mass research project ever conceived in history

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RE: Scary Common Ground - 6/23/2011 8:45:23 AM   
erieangel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Shut them down and stop throwing good money after bad.



I don't agree with Obama's quote. Ben Franklin said 'those who would give up freedom for security, deserve neither'. Ok so i don't have the direct quote, but i don't have time to look it up right now, essentially, that's what he meant. the moment the patriot act was passed and Bush was permitted to wire tap just about anybody he wanted, i knew this country was on life support. it is just a matter of time. i would not be adverse to PA becoming a part of Canada, or even just my little city Erie, Ontario is right across the lake. The Canadians would never want any of us however.

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RE: Scary Common Ground - 6/23/2011 6:26:47 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Read Feynmann's book What Do You care What Other People Think?  He describes the exact same bullshit that led up to the Challenger disaster - thoughtful, conservative safety measures continually ignored/weakened.



This board would do well to read almost anything by Feynmann, even if most of the physics is over their heads. Its a shame he isnt around for the AGW debate. He anticipated it quite well in 1974:

"Details that could throw doubt on your interpretation must be
given, if you know them. You must do the best you can--if you know
anything at all wrong, or possibly wrong--to explain it. If you
make a theory, for example, and advertise it, or put it out, then
you must also put down all the facts that disagree with it, as well
as those that agree with it. There is also a more subtle problem.
When you have put a lot of ideas together to make an elaborate
theory, you want to make sure, when explaining what it fits, that
those things it fits are not just the things that gave you the idea
for the theory; but that the finished theory makes something else
come out right, in addition."


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RE: Scary Common Ground - 6/23/2011 7:12:55 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:


1) I don't have an issue with Nuclear Power.


Course you don't.



No, I don't... and given some 80% of energy (if recalled correctly) in France is from Nuclear, then neither do millions of others. GASP!!!

quote:


...going to the number one nuclear energy lobby group for your 'facts'


Hmmm... let's see... assuming one were interested in finding out what percentage of energy comes from Nuclear sources in the U.S. (as I was), it seems only LOGICAL to review information from... (drum roll)... "the number one nuclear energy lobby group", as they'd likely have the most current numbers/percentages.  GASP... GASP... GASP!!!  Strange that this simple process confuses you so.





< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 6/23/2011 7:13:32 PM >

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