Civil Rights Movement- what if it never happened? (Full Version)

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MistressRayvyn -> Civil Rights Movement- what if it never happened? (6/19/2011 11:43:15 AM)

Hello everyone!

I thought I'd give it a shot and ask you folks what you think would be different had the Civil Rights movement of the 1960's never happened, both in your personal life and on a global scale. Any and all thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

Mistress Rayvyn



TheHeretic -> RE: Civil Rights Movement- what if it never happened? (6/19/2011 12:06:48 PM)

I think the struggle for civil rights had become an inevitable event. Nothing would have stopped it, less than a massive, ongoing, totalitarian response, and we would probably have strife and civil disturbances on the news all the time.



MistressRayvyn -> RE: Civil Rights Movement- what if it never happened? (6/19/2011 12:27:12 PM)

@TheHeretic

I agree. I am in the middle of a final paper for my 1960's course and I am looking for ideas to add to it being that I have to make a 5 page paper out of three questions to answer. It's the first theoretical paper I have had to write in years and so I'm stressing out over it. If it were more research oriented, I would have no problem at all in completing it. However, I have to write about what my life would be like, how it would affect my chosen course study (Psychology), and my career path (online Professor of Psychology), as well as how it would affect the world. I thought instead of pulling my hair out over this on my own that I'd pick the brains of others to get ideas of what to include in my paper. It's a shame it can only be one event and not several.



mnottertail -> RE: Civil Rights Movement- what if it never happened? (6/19/2011 12:33:22 PM)

Well you'd still have separate bathrooms, drinking fountains and soda fountains, one room school houses.

Separate but equal?  Jesus, that would be a very convoluted argumentation by now.



Aylee -> RE: Civil Rights Movement- what if it never happened? (6/19/2011 1:17:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressRayvyn

Hello everyone!

I thought I'd give it a shot and ask you folks what you think would be different had the Civil Rights movement of the 1960's never happened, both in your personal life and on a global scale. Any and all thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

Mistress Rayvyn


To answer this I need to know just WHICH specific event never happened and what happened instead.

You see, as much as we like to think it, history is not neat and tidy. Events happening at the time are not neat, tidy, readily understandable at the time either.

This type of writing is called alternate history. A guy named Harry Turtledove is considered a master of it. Especially with regards to the civil war and everything that happened afterwords.



slvemike4u -> RE: Civil Rights Movement- what if it never happened? (6/19/2011 5:04:53 PM)

South Africa and us would have become inseparable allies.The "special relationship" that is spoken of between Great Britain and us....would have been between us and the other prominent proponet of institutionalized racism.
With such support apartheid might still be going on ,Mandella might still be rotting in jail....and the world would be all that much darker.



pahunkboy -> RE: Civil Rights Movement- what if it never happened? (6/19/2011 5:53:04 PM)

What makes you  think we are done with it?  



juliaoceania -> RE: Civil Rights Movement- what if it never happened? (6/19/2011 6:05:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

South Africa and us would have become inseparable allies.The "special relationship" that is spoken of between Great Britain and us....would have been between us and the other prominent proponet of institutionalized racism.
With such support apartheid might still be going on ,Mandella might still be rotting in jail....and the world would be all that much darker.



This



slvemike4u -> RE: Civil Rights Movement- what if it never happened? (6/19/2011 7:18:04 PM)

Yeah,as I look back at that post.....I simply assume I came across the perfect balance of pain killers and Jack Daniels ,nothing else can explain my firm grasp of one alternative history scenario.Simply brilliant thinking [:D]
Edited to add a smiley.[:D]



Hippiekinkster -> RE: Civil Rights Movement- what if it never happened? (6/19/2011 10:10:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Yeah,as I look back at that post.....I simply assume I came across the perfect balance of pain killers and Jack Daniels ,nothing else can explain my firm grasp of one alternative history scenario.Simply brilliant thinking [:D]
Edited to add a smiley.[:D]
Heh, oxy and EtOH used to work fairly well for me, too, but I've found that EtOh kind of messes with the mild euphoria I still get from the meds.

Well, laws making intermarriage between the "races" would still be illegal. That might possibly affect one's dating choices.

There quite possibly would have been fewer white kids killed by the war machine in Nam. As it was, poor black kids were still fodder for the war.

The Republican party would not have gained such prominance. The "Southern Strategy" and the subsequent takeover of the Repubs by radical Xstian fundamentalist southern white males would not have occurred.





tazzygirl -> RE: Civil Rights Movement- what if it never happened? (6/19/2011 11:32:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressRayvyn

Hello everyone!

I thought I'd give it a shot and ask you folks what you think would be different had the Civil Rights movement of the 1960's never happened, both in your personal life and on a global scale. Any and all thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

Mistress Rayvyn


You are speaking of the whole movement, not just the law, yes? I have to agree with Aylee. Would be helpful if you explained a bit better.



Arpig -> RE: Civil Rights Movement- what if it never happened? (6/19/2011 11:36:50 PM)

quote:

I am in the middle of a final paper for my 1960's course
They teach courses on the 60s!?!?

Crap! That makes me feel really, really old.



slvemike4u -> RE: Civil Rights Movement- what if it never happened? (6/20/2011 7:54:15 AM)

Of course this is all quite a leap as the"movement" was not owned by any one man(MLK) nor one event( the bus boycott of Rosa Parks fame)
The eventuality of the movement was right there all of the time....embedded in our Founding Declaration and in the Bill of Rights...were we to imagine a reality minus King or Parks....the "movement" would still have occurred ...perhaps at a different place in our history,perhaps in a more violent nature....but sooner or later someone would have come along and demanded that America live up to it's own stated ideals.
I usually do not subscribe to the eventuality concept of any given outcome or event....but in this case I can not see a way it doesn't happen.



Aylee -> RE: Civil Rights Movement- what if it never happened? (6/20/2011 8:22:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


Well, laws making intermarriage between the "races" would still be illegal. That might possibly affect one's dating choices.

Not all states had anti-miscegenation laws. In fact part of the charges against the Lovings were that they left Virginia to get married and then came back.

quote:

There quite possibly would have been fewer white kids killed by the war machine in Nam. As it was, poor black kids were still fodder for the war.


The military was already integrated.

quote:

The Republican party would not have gained such prominance.


There had been Republican presidents since Lincoln.
quote:

The "Southern Strategy" and the subsequent takeover of the Repubs by radical Xstian fundamentalist southern white males would not have occurred.

Wow. Is that not racist and stereotypical on its own.



Moonhead -> RE: Civil Rights Movement- what if it never happened? (6/20/2011 9:02:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

I am in the middle of a final paper for my 1960's course
They teach courses on the 60s!?!?

Crap! That makes me feel really, really old.


Of course they do: there was a shitload of history going on there, and the younger generation didn't see any of it.

(And the term is "venerable and respected", not old, anyway. [;)])



Moonhead -> RE: Civil Rights Movement- what if it never happened? (6/20/2011 9:05:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
The "Southern Strategy" and the subsequent takeover of the Repubs by radical Xstian fundamentalist southern white males would not have occurred.

Wow. Is that not racist and stereotypical on its own.

Stereotypical, perhaps, but not racist.



pahunkboy -> RE: Civil Rights Movement- what if it never happened? (6/20/2011 9:50:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

I am in the middle of a final paper for my 1960's course
They teach courses on the 60s!?!?

Crap! That makes me feel really, really old.




60 is the new 40.



slvemike4u -> RE: Civil Rights Movement- what if it never happened? (6/20/2011 11:15:36 AM)

Yes aylee,the military had been integrated since Truman.....yet the casualties from the Nam era were in fact disproportionately African American....socio economic factors explain this disparity.White kids were far more likely to get the all important deferments....white draftees were far more likely to have had at least some higher education....therefor were more likely to be assigned some military specialty that would keep them out of Southeast Asia.
The statistics are all there for the googling.....the percentages are unassailable.(I am running out and can not look them up for you)..those same numbers had convinced Martin Luther King despite the advice of most of his peers to speak out against the war in 1968... The fear was that a black civil rights leader could not sustain a charge of un Americanism while the movement was making such headway.King came to see the war as genocidal to a generation of black youth and a disproportionate scourge on the black community.
He was of course right.



DavidLee44UK -> RE: Civil Rights Movement- what if it never happened? (6/20/2011 12:32:35 PM)

what civil rights do you mean

workers rights tolpuddle martyrs 1834

equal rights for women were that woman through herself under kings horse

lots things happened before 1960's



DesFIP -> RE: Civil Rights Movement- what if it never happened? (6/20/2011 2:44:20 PM)

There would be no laws against firing people because they are older. There would be no women in the military. There would be no women's sports either at the public school level nor at NCAA nor professional level.
It would be legal to gay bash in schools.

Remember, 1964 Civil Rights Act gave protection to all kinds of people.

Personally how it would have affected me? Being the second only Jewish student at one of the nation's premier all girls prep schools would not have happened. My sister was the first, and it was four years after the Civil Rights Amendment had been passed.

My daughter has just finished college during which she competed every year on a NCAA team, and this year they went to Missouri for regionals and Kentucky for finals. Being a team sport meant that the school paid for those trips, just as they did for the football team's travels. Without the passage of that bill, this would not have happened.

I do believe it was inevitable that it would have happened later and in piecemeal. But it was an extraordinarily far reaching piece of legislation in every way.

In fact, I think that the Americans with Disabilities Act would not have passed without it. Nor would school provided meals, nor mainstreaming of special ed kids, nor giving them the help they needed. Nor would sexual harassment be discouraged in almost every company of any size. The idea that everyone is entitled under the law to a fair shake was given teeth by the passage of this law.



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