Mother Gets 5 Yrs Probation for Spanking Child (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid



Message

MasterG2kTR -> Mother Gets 5 Yrs Probation for Spanking Child (6/18/2011 9:03:51 PM)

This is an absolutely absurd outrage and intrusion on anyone's personal life and certainly one place that the law has no place (in this case) being! A complete chain of meddling morons that should all be dragged out somewhere and publicly beaten to have a clear idea of where the line should really be drawn.

Link to story - read the comments at the end of the article running 99 to 1 in favor of the mother

quote:


A judge in Corpus Christi, Texas had some harsh words for a mother charged with spanking her own child before sentencing her to probation.

"You don't spank children today," said Judge Jose Longoria. "In the old days, maybe we got spanked, but there was a different quarrel. You don't spank children." Rosalina Gonzales had pleaded guilty to a felony charge of injury to a child for what prosecutors had described as a "pretty simple, straightforward spanking case." They noted she didn't use a belt or leave any bruises, just some red marks.

As part of the plea deal, Gonzales will serve five years probation, during which time she'll have to take parenting classes, follow CPS guidelines, and make a $50 payment to the Children's Advocacy Center. She was arrested back in December after the child's paternal grandmother noticed red marks on the child's rear end. The grandmother took the girl, who was two years-old at the time, to the hospital to be checked out.

Gonzales who doesn't have custody of the child or her other two children, is trying to get them back, but until CPS feels she is ready the kids are living with their paternal grandmother.




sunshinemiss -> RE: Mother Gets 5 Yrs Probation for Spanking Child (6/18/2011 9:27:13 PM)

You are wrong. The child was 2 and had marks on its body. The child was in the care of the grandparent (evidently the mother wasn't around) and the grandparent took the child to the ER. There, the child was examined. Children of that age are still generally wearing diapers. Hitting a child so hard that it leaves a mark through a diaper.... that's pretty hard.

Red marks left on a 2 year old quite a while after the incident and probably through a diaper... Yep, it is abuse. Like it or not, it does meet the criteria.

Also, children are not removed from their parents' homes unless there is a belief the child will be in danger. The other two children were removed as well. What had happened to them? That's no easy feat. You have to interview them, check out what's going. It's not just "OH NO! Take them OUT of there!"

Thank goodness the children are with someone who loves them.

Just because YOU are not aware of the line doesn't mean that there isn't one. In this case, the mother did in fact go over the line. You didn't read what wasn't there. You see, that's the part that that uneducated, armchair psychologists like yourself seem to forget. There are strict guidelines. There is more information than meets the eye. If you are going to believe everything you read, you are seriously going to be disappointed in the world.

Sunshine,
a meddling moron.



LadyConstanze -> RE: Mother Gets 5 Yrs Probation for Spanking Child (6/19/2011 3:45:52 AM)

Actually in most countries it is forbidden to slap or spank a child, if you leave marks on them or not, I find that a bit over the top, I'm not pro beating kids but you can tell a child that's 3 or 4 dozens of times to not run into the road it could be killed, the child is too young to understand death, if you put a harness on the child there will be people being upset with you and claiming you treat it like a dog, if you hold it by the hand, it's too easy for the child to slip out, a quick smack on the bottom that won't really hurt much tells the child that certain actions have reactions, but even that counts as child abuse now.

I recall that mom tried to keep us away from oven plates out of fear that we might get burned, the more she told us the more fascinating they were, so she heated them up and told us that they are hot and hurt, but didn't stop us from touching them, just made sure that we didn't touch them for long enough to cause real damage, tell you what, the little blister didn't do permanent damage but it got the message across - I wonder if now she'd be in prison for it. Another time she found me when I had removed those security covers from the sockets and proceeded to push the end of a comb into the electric socket, she was so shocked and afraid, she grabbed me and slapped me that I had the imprint of her fingers on my cheek, I wouldn't say that was remotely abuse, that was a mother being worried that her child would die and reacting in shock.

As for red marks through diapers, you know if a toddler falls on his or her bum, they often have a red mark on the bottom, the son of a friend is extremely fair skinned and bruises easily, their doctor also raised concerns that the child might be abused, until he tried to hold him still to give him a vaccination and my friend pointed out that where the doc held him he started bruising already.

I'm all for stopping any abuse, but sometimes they do push it quite far, I don't know what happened in the reported case, but 5 years for a spank on the bottom seems excessive, I haven't seen the marks and reserve judgement, but from babysitting and changing nappies on kids, I've seen plenty of red marks there when they sat down a bit too heavily or ended up falling on their toys with the rear end. The skin there is very very soft (soft as a baby bottom) so it does tend to discolour quite easily.
Personally I think there is a massive difference between beating a child and giving it a quick smack on the bottom, ideally both shouldn't happen but parents are human and talking sense to a child that doesn't understand might not always work. There's a BMX bike concrete playground nearby, the amount of kids from 4 to 16 using it without helmets or protective gear (despite the big signs proclaiming the need to wear it and that it is mandatory) is quite shocking, quite a few of the kids don't even seem to have helmets - plenty of sharp concrete corners, I find parents who don't force the kids to wear protective gear (if needed with a slap on the bottom) a lot more neglectful than a child who'd get a smack for not wearing the helmet that might save its life.



Phoenixpower -> RE: Mother Gets 5 Yrs Probation for Spanking Child (6/19/2011 6:15:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

You are wrong. The child was 2 and had marks on its body. The child was in the care of the grandparent (evidently the mother wasn't around) and the grandparent took the child to the ER. There, the child was examined. Children of that age are still generally wearing diapers. Hitting a child so hard that it leaves a mark through a diaper.... that's pretty hard.

Red marks left on a 2 year old quite a while after the incident and probably through a diaper... Yep, it is abuse. Like it or not, it does meet the criteria.

Also, children are not removed from their parents' homes unless there is a belief the child will be in danger. The other two children were removed as well. What had happened to them? That's no easy feat. You have to interview them, check out what's going. It's not just "OH NO! Take them OUT of there!"

Thank goodness the children are with someone who loves them.

Just because YOU are not aware of the line doesn't mean that there isn't one. In this case, the mother did in fact go over the line. You didn't read what wasn't there. You see, that's the part that that uneducated, armchair psychologists like yourself seem to forget. There are strict guidelines. There is more information than meets the eye. If you are going to believe everything you read, you are seriously going to be disappointed in the world.

Sunshine,
a meddling moron.


Very well said [:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]

quote:

Actually in most countries it is forbidden to slap or spank a child, if you leave marks on them or not


That is true, in Germany it is legally forbidden since 2002 [:)]



sunshinemiss -> RE: Mother Gets 5 Yrs Probation for Spanking Child (6/19/2011 6:18:19 AM)

Fair enough Constanza. What happens though is that people only see one tiny part of the story. I worked in that field (several of us on the boards do or did), and there is a whole lot more going on than what you talk of. It's not an easy decision to recommend removal from a home, but I can dang sure tell you that every person I worked with - and I worked with a lot - took it seriously and didn't just willy nilly remove children from their homes.

As to the judicial decision - that's a criminal case. A whole other kettle of fish....

best,
sunshine



TreasureKY -> RE: Mother Gets 5 Yrs Probation for Spanking Child (6/19/2011 6:54:03 AM)

I am not an advocate of corporal punishment, but I am a realist.  I raised three rambunctious and head-strong boys, so I'm well aware that "sparing the rod" often isn't a good option.

However, sunshinemiss is spot on here:

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

You are wrong. The child was 2 and had marks on its body.


Two years old?  And marks of any kind?!

I'm sorry, but at age two there shouldn't be any real "spanking" going on... as in bare-bottomed punishment.  At that age, a swat on the bottom meant to get attention but not cause any real discomfort is about all that is warranted or effective. 

At two years old, they are still babies!  Barely verbal and only just learning to control their own bodies.

I cannot imagine what you'd have to do to a child to cause red marks that lasted not only long enough for the child to be seen by the grandmother, but until the child was transported to the hospital and seen by a doctor.

I'd just as soon not try.  [&:]



needlesandpins -> RE: Mother Gets 5 Yrs Probation for Spanking Child (6/19/2011 7:08:42 AM)

there will always be arguements for or against smacking children.

this is second time i've gone to reply to this thread and i've just deleted most of what i've written.

all i can say is that there are the extremes on both sides and neither of them are right. finding the fine line as a parent is bloody hard work. i think i've found that with my son and he has had a smack at times. he has wonderful manners, will help out anyway he can and is respectful of his elders. i prefer that my son is like he is and is so having had some smacks, than have him like some of the kids that he has been banned from bringing back to my house.

parenting is all about judgement calls and some get it very wrong, however, none of us are perfect either.

needles



GreedyTop -> RE: Mother Gets 5 Yrs Probation for Spanking Child (6/19/2011 7:33:49 AM)

some kids just need a good, swift smack in the ass.  I know this because I was one of them.  Did I listen when Mom said dont touch the stove?  fuck no.  Did I listen when Mom said don't play in the street? no.

what got through to me was mom, seeing me disobeying her, SMACKIN MY ASS!!

Did I ever repeat the actions that got me smacked?

oh FUCKING HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(edited for emphasis)



LadyConstanze -> RE: Mother Gets 5 Yrs Probation for Spanking Child (6/19/2011 7:53:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY


I cannot imagine what you'd have to do to a child to cause red marks that lasted not only long enough for the child to be seen by the grandmother, but until the child was transported to the hospital and seen by a doctor.

I'd just as soon not try.  [&:]



I'm quite often babysit for friends, luckily their kids are now out of the wearing diapers stage (makes babysitting much easier and nicer when you don't have to change nappies), but I recall being paranoid about red marks on the bottom of one of the kids once, I was close to a fully fledged panic that they'd think I would have done anything to their baby. When they got back I told them and kept on saying "I honestly didn't slap her, but she has that round red mark on her butt..." They just laughed and told me she has that fairly often from trying to walk and landing on her bottom, they were more amused that it was just one sided as she usually has it on both sides. Like some people bruise terribly easy, kids are pretty much the same.

I know there are wonderful social workers but there are also some who might jump the gun a bit, a friend of mine is one in Austria, she said they have a case where the father is reporting the mother (they're divorced) for child abuse all the time, despite the fact that the child has the normal scratches from playing with other children (a bit of a skinned knee from falling in the playground, just stuff kids have) and they have to follow it up, they questioned the child, they checked for abuse, the mother is as perfect a mother as she can be, but due to the father causing all this noise, the mom now gets written statements from kindergarden if the poor child falls, because her ex will call them up and complain about each bruise or scratch, produce pictures, complain loudly and that she only could keep the child because he also terrorized and stalked her when she broke up with him and that this is some sick sort of revenge - however she can't stop him from seeing his child. Now if for example the guy wouldn't have the history he has, how easy would it be for her to lose custody? The problem with social workers is that most of them - the ones that take their job seriously - are hopelessly overworked.



LaTigresse -> RE: Mother Gets 5 Yrs Probation for Spanking Child (6/19/2011 8:04:05 AM)

As a mother and grandmother.........there is a definite line. And anyone that has raised multiple kids knows that, sometimes the line varies between kids. What works on one has no affect, or a terrible affect, on another. I absolutely hate corporal punishment but yes, I have spanked, pinched, grabbed by an ear, given a swish in the mouth with a bar of soap and once, with my 6 foot tall teenage son, a fairly stiff punch in the gut. Some might say I was wrong, many of those actions were, by definition, illegal. Kids do not come with manuals tied to their toes. Most parents try to do their best and most parents, in retrospect can say there were things they wish they had done differently.

Whether the line was crossed in this particular case.....who knows.



pahunkboy -> RE: Mother Gets 5 Yrs Probation for Spanking Child (6/19/2011 8:11:03 AM)

I tend to think that in this case the line was crossed.

The term spanking is misleading.   This case was a beating, a thrashing.  



GreedyTop -> RE: Mother Gets 5 Yrs Probation for Spanking Child (6/19/2011 8:14:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I tend to think that in this case the line was crossed.



of course you do.



sirsholly -> RE: Mother Gets 5 Yrs Probation for Spanking Child (6/19/2011 8:20:31 AM)

Personally i do not believe in raising a hand in anger, and rare is the case where a parent spanks a child without being angry.

However...i think there is more to the story than is written here. Mom didn't have custody. Why? And Grandma hustles the toddler to the ER to be examined. I cannot help but wonder what the past history of the parent is. Is this a case of a habitually abusive parent and is that the reason it went before the courts?



GreedyTop -> RE: Mother Gets 5 Yrs Probation for Spanking Child (6/19/2011 8:23:40 AM)

notice that it is the PATERNAL grandmother raising the charges.. just sayin'



pahunkboy -> RE: Mother Gets 5 Yrs Probation for Spanking Child (6/19/2011 8:26:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I tend to think that in this case the line was crossed.



of course you do.


the kid was 2.  you do not beat a 2 year old silly. 



LaTigresse -> RE: Mother Gets 5 Yrs Probation for Spanking Child (6/19/2011 8:30:15 AM)

Seriously PA?

And as an aside....between my two kids and 3 grands over the age of 2.......all were potty trained prior to age 2 and all knew the difference between right and wrong, what 'No' meant.

I just don't think there are enough facts available to make any sort of 'horrible human being' judgement. It may very well be, but it also may not be.



pahunkboy -> RE: Mother Gets 5 Yrs Probation for Spanking Child (6/19/2011 8:56:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Seriously PA?

And as an aside....between my two kids and 3 grands over the age of 2.......all were potty trained prior to age 2 and all knew the difference between right and wrong, what 'No' meant.

I just don't think there are enough facts available to make any sort of 'horrible human being' judgement. It may very well be, but it also may not be.



Yes.    Really.  Spanking is ok-   a pat on the ass.   ...which is quite different then leaving marks...

My parents spanked us-    ...they did not however beat us.    There is a difference.

My sister and her hubby do well with the time outs.  She has 3 kids all under age 5.    I am fine with her spanking them...  if she beat them into next week- I am not fine with that- and I would personally confront her or worse if she ever did.    ( she never would tho )



GreedyTop -> RE: Mother Gets 5 Yrs Probation for Spanking Child (6/19/2011 9:12:03 AM)

time outs is such an 80s thing for those of us not born after 1978.

sometimes, depending on the person.. a light swat WILL be enough to leave marks..

edited because I am sleepy



pahunkboy -> RE: Mother Gets 5 Yrs Probation for Spanking Child (6/19/2011 9:15:27 AM)

....this one does sound like a custody war- type of thing where the kid is used as a pawn.  It would help to know more of the back ground. 



GreedyTop -> RE: Mother Gets 5 Yrs Probation for Spanking Child (6/19/2011 9:23:52 AM)

no SHIT?   this comment from you, hunky, just reeks of irony!!  Thus, it amuses me immensely!!



Page: [1] 2   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875