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Qualifications - 6/13/2011 8:39:18 PM

MasterJohnSteed

Posts: 217
Joined: 2/17/2010
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this isn't so much a question as it is really just a rant.

I just got finished looking through a local website that listed tech jobs. There was one that basically was my job for the last seven years. But at the bottom of the ad, the company put :" Do not apply for this job unless you have a Bachelor's degree in computer science " .

For the last seven years I have done level three help desk work. (Level three or tier three, is the highest level that you get, the end of the line authority) I have ten years of professional paid work doing tech support. and seventeen years of unpaid and off the books (under the table) computer work.

If you have a Bachelor's degree in computer science, that means that you know more than one programming language, almost like your native tongue. With that kind of degree you should be able to practically command your own salary.

If I had that kind of background and education I would be working for a video game designer or a security firm, not messing around doing help desk work.

So, the rhetorical question I have to ask, is if you put up an ad like that, do you have the sense to scratch your own balls? As one recruiter has already told me, most of these companies, don't know what they want so they go and demand more than they need.

I've seen the standard "you must have A+ certification" but here's the thing, If I've been doing this for a provable ten years, and have at least 17 years of hands on experience. How does that not qualify for more than an A+ or a Bachelor's degree.

My last advisor took a look at all of my credits and told me "Hell, you've got enough education here to qualify for a PHD" (AS in Business Administration. BS in Business Administration, three years of a degree in MIS and 12 credit hours short of a AS in Computer Science)

Post #: 1

RE: Qualifications - 6/13/2011 9:05:23 PM

HannahLynHeather

Posts: 2950
Joined: 4/4/2011
From: where it's at
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shit! if you have all those years experience then why the fuck don't you just go get your fucking A+. it only costs around $150 for fucks sake. and take all your credits to the local uni and apply for a fucking degree.

rather than bitch that you have all the qualifications for the pieces of paper, get the pieces of paper.

hannah lynn

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Post #: 2

RE: Qualifications - 6/13/2011 9:54:00 PM

SternSkipper

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Joined: 3/7/2004
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quote:

shit! if you have all those years experience then why the fuck don't you just go get your fucking A+. it only costs around $150 for fucks sake. and take all your credits to the local uni and apply for a fucking degree.

rather than bitch that you have all the qualifications for the pieces of paper, get the pieces of paper.

hannah lynn

Hannah's right (this time)... just pay the test fee and spend an hour taking the test. Search on demonoid dot me for a torrent of an A+ cert Primer just as insurance. If you have 17 years experience you'll blow right through it.

BTW - Just kidding Hannah

(in reply to HannahLynHeather)

Post #: 3

RE: Qualifications - 6/13/2011 11:28:15 PM

DavidLee44UK

Posts: 436
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline

has a+ and server +

(in reply to SternSkipper)

Post #: 4

RE: Qualifications - 6/13/2011 11:38:40 PM

NuevaVida

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Joined: 8/5/2008
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It's frustrating but with so many people out of work, companies can request higher and higher qualifications and get more than they need, because there is so much to choose from. This way they can pay a basic salary for a Level 3 (or Senior) employee. It's happening everywhere.

I learned long ago that I'd have a tougher time getting work because I didn't finish my degree. It was a choice I had to weigh out, and consequences I had to accept.

It's a pain in the ass trying to find a job, so I wish you well.

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Post #: 5

RE: Qualifications - 6/13/2011 11:50:51 PM

myotherself

Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline

If you're serious about doing what it is you want to do, you're going to have to fit in with the requirements or you don't stand a chance.

I graduated with an engineering/physics degree. I worked in the industry for many years. Then I decided I wanted to teach, and I wanted to teach maths. I checked it out, and my maths subject knowledge was more than good enough to teach the subject right up to University level.

But the schools did not agree. They wanted an undergraduate diploma in maths at a very minimum to allow me on the teacher training course. So that's what I did. I paid for myself to do a 4 year distance learning qualification in maths, while also doing a very stressful job. I lost count of the hours I spent working on assignments or swotting for exams on planes, in taxis, in hotel rooms. But I did it.

Now I'm a maths teacher.

If it's something you want badly enough, you'll do it.

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Post #: 6

RE: Qualifications - 6/14/2011 12:17:17 AM

HeatherMcLeather

Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
Status: offline

quote:

BTW - Just kidding Hannah

You're just sucking up now that you know she's bi.

(in reply to SternSkipper)

Post #: 7

RE: Qualifications - 6/14/2011 5:18:29 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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JohnSteed, while I agree with Hannah here, I would add something.

You made a post a while back angry about how your employer didn't value you, and saying that companies don't value employees any more. Similarly, your current post is how companies don't value your capabilities and background. And how they're wrong to want the things they do.

Cut that out.

Look at companies as being the entities that could offer you a job. And be GRATEFUL for that possibility. Quit thinking of yourself as some computer genius that companies could worship.

Your attitude is blocking you more than the lack of certs is.

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Post #: 8

RE: Qualifications - 6/14/2011 6:15:25 AM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline

John I have certifications galore (MCP, MCP+I, MCSE, A+) and skills galore, but very little experience, so I can't get hired very often in the field. With your experience, you're a fool not to get the certifications and degrees. If your adviser is right, and you have the credits to justify a PHD, then surely to God a Bachelors in CompSci is just a matter of a credit or two.

I feel for you, I know what its like. When I first got my papers it was right when Nortel went tits up, so every IT job I went to there were 20 Nortel engineers with 10 years experience and higher degrees applying for.

Spring for the certs, the A+ I didn't even study for, just wrote it from my knowledge of fixing comps, I got somewhere in the mid 90s. If you know your shit, they are a breeze.

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Post #: 9

RE: Qualifications - 6/14/2011 6:17:09 AM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

Why not go for the job as a gamer?

Apply- the worst that can happen is they say no.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 10

RE: Qualifications - 6/14/2011 6:37:29 AM

windchymes

Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
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Another option is to move inland, somewhere in the midwest that is more remote and away from the big cities of the east coast. There are fewer people there with advanced degrees, they're hurting more for qualified people, so they're less demanding and picky.

Unfortunately, the times are changing, it's easier to get degrees with online opportunities and more people are getting them. The technology world is way different than it was back before Y2K, when the "geeks" with a year of college were getting 100K/year jobs. Those days are over, and if you're going to stay competitive, you NEED to get the pieces of paper, because that is what recruiters look at. You can rant till doomsday, but it's not going to change. Better start putting that energy into taking whatever course or two you need to complete your package, because yes, your education and experience is good, but they want to see the piece of paper.

Stop fighting 'em, just join 'em, so you're not still ranting six months from now

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Post #: 11

RE: Qualifications - 6/14/2011 12:14:48 PM

DavidLee44UK

Posts: 436
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline

it is gonna change anyway what with google chrome books and the icloud

unless you keep up with new tech gonna be left behind

i started as an it consultant but moved to seo

but still have a site all about cloud computing does very well

so shifting your skills and making the best use of them a good idea

after all all a google chrome book does is get you on the cloud in 8 seconds

(in reply to windchymes)

Post #: 12

RE: Qualifications - 6/14/2011 12:30:58 PM

Muttling

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Joined: 9/30/2007
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In addition to being important to have the paper, you have to understand what is going on in human resources these days. They have gotten extremely good at attracting lots of applicants, gone are the days when you only had 5 or 10 applicants for a skilled position. HR is setting up criteria that lets then trash most of the applications they get so they can boil it down to 10 or so applicants. If you don't meet ALL of the requirements, your application won't make it through the first cut and they don't have time to pick through for ones with experience that might be equal to the certification requirements.

(in reply to DavidLee44UK)

Post #: 13

RE: Qualifications - 6/14/2011 5:01:01 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

In addition to being important to have the paper, you have to understand what is going on in human resources these days. They have gotten extremely good at attracting lots of applicants, gone are the days when you only had 5 or 10 applicants for a skilled position. HR is setting up criteria that lets then trash most of the applications they get so they can boil it down to 10 or so applicants. If you don't meet ALL of the requirements, your application won't make it through the first cut and they don't have time to pick through for ones with experience that might be equal to the certification requirements.

Which brings up the concept of the two column cover letter. It reads like:

I am applying for the Data Analyst position. I meet your requirements as follows:

Your requirement                                                     My qualification
Bachelor's degree in Engineering or Business            Bachelor's degree in Mechanical Engineering
Three years of experience in data analysis                 Eight years of experience in data analysis

etc.

This makes it VERY easy for some HS graduate HR screener with no concept of the position and very little time to see how well you meet the requirements. He or she can scan your qualifications in seconds.

_____________________________

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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Post #: 14

RE: Qualifications - 6/14/2011 5:54:05 PM

willbeurdaddy

Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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Lie. They arent going to check that far back!

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Post #: 15

RE: Qualifications - 6/14/2011 7:04:17 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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I always presume they are going to check.

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Post #: 16

RE: Qualifications - 6/14/2011 7:31:11 PM

peachgirl

Posts: 396
Joined: 6/25/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Which brings up the concept of the two column cover letter. It reads like:

I am applying for the Data Analyst position. I meet your requirements as follows:

Your requirement                                                     My qualification
Bachelor's degree in Engineering or Business            Bachelor's degree in Mechanical Engineering
Three years of experience in data analysis                 Eight years of experience in data analysis

etc.

This makes it VERY easy for some HS graduate HR screener with no concept of the position and very little time to see how well you meet the requirements. He or she can scan your qualifications in seconds.

DarkSteven,

This is a genuine question, does this approach work? Have you had an instance where it worked for you, or do you work in HR? Just curious, as a SAHM who is contemplating where my best re-entry into full-time work might be...

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(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 17

RE: Qualifications - 6/14/2011 7:38:29 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

In theory, it should be very effective.

It's been about five years since I last looked for work, but that approach did get me some interest.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to peachgirl)

Post #: 18

RE: Qualifications - 6/14/2011 8:23:43 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

I dont recommend lying.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 19

RE: Qualifications - 6/15/2011 8:04:57 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Get the certifications and get rid of that chip on your shoulder. Because you need the job, so you have to comply with their requirements.

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Post #: 20

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