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Sorry to put you personally on the spot, but I'm curious: since it was an area that you were already learning about, was it easier to divorce the messenger from the message? Did you find your opinions on the subject modified at all by your feelings about the "talking head"?

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I know for me personally, I do find that easier when I've already independently researched something. I sometimes have to make a conscious decision to ignore where the message is coming from when it's an idea that's new to me. In politics especially I have to do this when issues or solutions are first brought up by someone who I have a personal distaste for (whether it be to their personality, their politics, or their verbosity).

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ORIGINAL: Owner59

I`m not sure people and ideas can be separated..

This is why debate is so god dammed important.

So the ideas get vetted fairly and coolly, before they become law.

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ORIGINAL: Owner59

I`m not sure people and ideas can be separated..

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ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
I recently heard a political satirist say, in a mock news story, "President Obama's motorcade drove past a burning house. The President had the car stopped, ran into the burning building and rescued a little 5-year-old girl. House Republicans cited this as an example that President Obama hates firemen, since he should have waited for one to arrive and save the little girl rather than doing it himself."

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In addition, I find Americans to be confused because they don't know enough about their country and are mixed up about a lot of other facts.

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ORIGINAL: ladyneedshelp

I do not understand how people can ignore obivous facts and continue to spout party talking points. For example the republicans said repetedely that they were all voting no on the health care bill. Fact....they indeed all voted no and it did not stop the bill...their vote never mattered yet the democrats kept saying the republicans were holding it up. In reality it took that long to get it past because a lot of democrats were holding out and a lot of deals were handed out to get them on board. YET today people will say the republicans were the cause of the delay.

There are a few democrats I have voted for over the years (very few) because I liked what they said. And I have heard some democrats say some smart things, but over all I disagree with some of the democrat ideas. Mostly I disagree with the progressive (both democrat and republican) ideas.

How ever I can and do seperate the man/poosition. I disagree wholeheartely with most of what jimmy carter says.....but I know him personally and he is a very nice man and does great work with habitat for humanity. I disagree with a lot of things bill clinton has said and done....but I bet he would be a hoot to hang with and I think over all he wasn't a half bad pres.

I disagree with most everything Obama says and stands for. I think he is an elitist, smug, and clueless. I may think he (________) but I would never call him names. I truly dislike the fact that he continually apologizes for America, implies America has been horrible and he has insulted all our allies while smoozing with the foes. He puts a mortorem on drilling costing thousands of American jobs while giving billions to brazil to drill... and promises to be their best coustomer! I dislike that he thinks the masses are ingnorant clinging to our guns and bible. Nor do I like his wife saying America is a down right mean country. She was not even proud of her country untill Obama was winning the campain(her words paraphrased)

The media sent mutiple journlists to alaska trying to dig up dirt on palin yet at the democrat convention charlie rose said what do we know about him(obama) we don't know his ideology, we don't know his beliefs, we don't know who he is...... I suppose all the investagative reporters were busy digging up dirt on palin and they had none to spare to read obamas books which plainly spell....well maybe not so plainly....his second book is just a jumble of incoherent half formed ideas and full of dislike for the great sin of the white americans. But he says he perfers socalisim. Good thing I do My own research and don't depend on the media.

Too many people just follow along and put their trust in a single party/idea/person and there is no one perfect party/idea/person. Too many people "listen" with half an ear....hearing only the parts they want to hear/see/read.

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ORIGINAL: SilverMark

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ORIGINAL: ladyneedshelp

I do not understand how people can ignore obivous facts and continue to spout party talking points. For example the republicans said repetedely that they were all voting no on the health care bill. Fact....they indeed all voted no and it did not stop the bill...their vote never mattered yet the democrats kept saying the republicans were holding it up. In reality it took that long to get it past because a lot of democrats were holding out and a lot of deals were handed out to get them on board. YET today people will say the republicans were the cause of the delay.

There are a few democrats I have voted for over the years (very few) because I liked what they said. And I have heard some democrats say some smart things, but over all I disagree with some of the democrat ideas. Mostly I disagree with the progressive (both democrat and republican) ideas.

How ever I can and do seperate the man/poosition. I disagree wholeheartely with most of what jimmy carter says.....but I know him personally and he is a very nice man and does great work with habitat for humanity. I disagree with a lot of things bill clinton has said and done....but I bet he would be a hoot to hang with and I think over all he wasn't a half bad pres.

I disagree with most everything Obama says and stands for. I think he is an elitist, smug, and clueless. I may think he (________) but I would never call him names. I truly dislike the fact that he continually apologizes for America, implies America has been horrible and he has insulted all our allies while smoozing with the foes. He puts a mortorem on drilling costing thousands of American jobs while giving billions to brazil to drill... and promises to be their best coustomer! I dislike that he thinks the masses are ingnorant clinging to our guns and bible. Nor do I like his wife saying America is a down right mean country. She was not even proud of her country untill Obama was winning the campain(her words paraphrased)

The media sent mutiple journlists to alaska trying to dig up dirt on palin yet at the democrat convention charlie rose said what do we know about him(obama) we don't know his ideology, we don't know his beliefs, we don't know who he is...... I suppose all the investagative reporters were busy digging up dirt on palin and they had none to spare to read obamas books which plainly spell....well maybe not so plainly....his second book is just a jumble of incoherent half formed ideas and full of dislike for the great sin of the white americans. But he says he perfers socalisim. Good thing I do My own research and don't depend on the media.

Too many people just follow along and put their trust in a single party/idea/person and there is no one perfect party/idea/person. Too many people "listen" with half an ear....hearing only the parts they want to hear/see/read.

If your comments here are an example of "your own research" you need to improve your methods.

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For example the republicans said repetedely that they were all voting no on the health care bill. Fact....they indeed all voted no and it did not stop the bill...their vote never mattered yet the democrats kept saying the republicans were holding it up. In reality it took that long to get it past because a lot of democrats were holding out and a lot of deals were handed out to get them on board. YET today people will say the republicans were the cause of the delay.

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

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ORIGINAL: Owner59

I`m not sure people and ideas can be separated..

Really, O59? Our current top of the political heap in the cult of personality, one President Barack Hussein Obama, seems to have done a wonderful job of separating himself from the ideas he ran on. More importantly, his followers are demonstrating on a daily basis that they can easily choose him, over the ideas and ideals they once claimed mattered to them, as well.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Seeing the threads that crop up here, and reading the "comments" section of online articles I read, I am struck by how many of us are moved to support people instead of the ideas that they advocate. It is as if one side can show that the other side has some sort of moral failing that everything that they stood for has now become less than it was and suspect.

People are rallied on the basis of personality rather than ideas, and they will support a personality even more than they support their ideas. We have conflated political ideology, personal life of leaders, and popularity based upon image.

I can actually like someone and dislike their ideology, I do not get the two confused. For example, I like Mike Huckleby. He is a charming and winning personality. He has a sense of humor, but I detest his politics.

What I see is an ideation of what certain leaders embody, like Ronald Reagan, or Sarah Palin, but it is this idea of who they are and what they stand for, like caricatures of something.

I suppose Obama has the same sort of support. Those who see him as this polished suave leader, a professor type, the "intellectual"... and that feeds into his mythos.

I used to get into this mindset and defend people instead of their ideas, but then I had a relationship with a bona fide political activist, my first dom. He taught me an important lesson about politics... if you stand up for your ideas instead of the people who are vocalizing them, you will get further in realizing them. We all have clay feet. None of us are perfect. If we get caught up in personalities instead of our ideas we lose sight of the larger picture.


I do not think the personal life of most of the politicians in this country matters as long as it isn't incompatible with their political ideology. In other words, if you publicly come out against homosexuality while you are sexually harassing your same sex interns, well, that is a problem. If you advocate against industrial pollution and then invest with gross polluters, well that is a problem.

What I see that I find sorta sad and funny at the same time is people who will go to the ends of the earth to find scandal on someone they dislike politically, and then feel smug when they dig something up, as if that says to the other side "look, your ideas are bad"... no, it does not make their ideas bad, it makes their leaders flawed.


I see several threads going on about a certain idiot politician who will probably never get elected to even dog catcher of Wasilla, and I think, "Why all this energy about this person? She is a nobody. She does not have any sort of credibility"... and it comes down to Cult of Personality trying to disguise itself as real issues and some sort of ideas about something substantial. It just isn't....

There are a couple of politicians I admire. If someone were to show me that they had feet of clay tomorrow it would not change my mind about my ideas. It would not impact my commitment to them. I wonder why all the energy gets invested in protecting images instead of the ideas....

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Now tell me brain. How much do you know about Canada?