RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing

RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (Full Version)

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calamitysandra -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/4/2011 2:53:40 AM)
But the US has the best medical care in the world! And don't you dare to forget it. [8\|]

Lucylastic -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/4/2011 6:49:51 AM)
ONLY If you can afford it!!!!

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/4/2011 6:52:34 AM)
If he has Medicare, then they will pay 100% of things that are related to the terminal illness. There are qualifications and such, but the Hospice social worker will help with all that. At least they did here. quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Thats just it... help is out there And its about time you admitted it [:D] IF you have an insurance carrier that does not drop you for exceeding the limit for care, OR you have medicare, which pays 80%. A friend of mine just got a letter from his father's insurance carrier, it seems that the full time hospice care treatment for his father's cancer is nearing the annual limit for care paid for by the insurance company. And it is only June. What do you suggest he do, willbe?

thishereboi -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/4/2011 11:39:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl What do you expect with a diagnosis of dementia? Confusion, duh. Did I say she should not have been? Of COURSE she didnt trust Drs, she didnt trust anyone she didnt remember. So it wasn't the lack of health care that was the problem, which is what I said. The health care system failed both the patient and her niece with the lack of support and education that both needed, as evidenced by the outcome. There comes a point when someone is so sick that you ignore their wishes and call for help. Now I don't know the niece so I can't say exactly why she didn't, but that was not the point of my response. People are trying to claim she couldn't get care because of our health care system and it didn't have anything to do with that.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/4/2011 11:42:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl What do you expect with a diagnosis of dementia? Confusion, duh. Did I say she should not have been? Of COURSE she didnt trust Drs, she didnt trust anyone she didnt remember. So it wasn't the lack of health care that was the problem, which is what I said. The health care system failed both the patient and her niece with the lack of support and education that both needed, as evidenced by the outcome. There comes a point when someone is so sick that you ignore their wishes and call for help. Now I don't know the niece so I can't say exactly why she didn't, but that was not the point of my response. People are trying to claim she couldn't get care because of our health care system and it didn't have anything to do with that. I disagree...it did have something to do with our health care system. The help was there through government agencies, but how to access those agencies is damn difficult to find. If they were for profit agencies they would manage to get the word out there.

thishereboi -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/4/2011 11:46:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl What do you expect with a diagnosis of dementia? Confusion, duh. Did I say she should not have been? Of COURSE she didnt trust Drs, she didnt trust anyone she didnt remember. So it wasn't the lack of health care that was the problem, which is what I said. The health care system failed both the patient and her niece with the lack of support and education that both needed, as evidenced by the outcome. There comes a point when someone is so sick that you ignore their wishes and call for help. Now I don't know the niece so I can't say exactly why she didn't, but that was not the point of my response. People are trying to claim she couldn't get care because of our health care system and it didn't have anything to do with that. I disagree...it did have something to do with our health care system. The help was there through government agencies, but how to access those agencies is damn difficult to find. If they were for profit agencies they would manage to get the word out there. The hospital was close by and they knew where it was and how to get care there... "Frances died in 2003. Ramona went three years later. Concha Lopez had watched her sisters die in medical facilities and made her family promise to spare her such an end." She didn't want that. How is that the hospitals fault?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/4/2011 11:52:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl What do you expect with a diagnosis of dementia? Confusion, duh. Did I say she should not have been? Of COURSE she didnt trust Drs, she didnt trust anyone she didnt remember. So it wasn't the lack of health care that was the problem, which is what I said. The health care system failed both the patient and her niece with the lack of support and education that both needed, as evidenced by the outcome. There comes a point when someone is so sick that you ignore their wishes and call for help. Now I don't know the niece so I can't say exactly why she didn't, but that was not the point of my response. People are trying to claim she couldn't get care because of our health care system and it didn't have anything to do with that. I disagree...it did have something to do with our health care system. The help was there through government agencies, but how to access those agencies is damn difficult to find. If they were for profit agencies they would manage to get the word out there. The hospital was close by and they knew where it was and how to get care there... "Frances died in 2003. Ramona went three years later. Concha Lopez had watched her sisters die in medical facilities and made her family promise to spare her such an end." She didn't want that. How is that the hospitals fault? What part of "There comes a point when someone is so sick that you ignore their wishes and call for help." is confusing you.

tazzygirl -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/4/2011 12:09:02 PM)
quote: The hospital was close by and they knew where it was and how to get care there... "Frances died in 2003. Ramona went three years later. Concha Lopez had watched her sisters die in medical facilities and made her family promise to spare her such an end." She didn't want that. How is that the hospitals fault? Who said it was the hospital's fault?

DeviantlyD -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/4/2011 1:58:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle I really hope you guys get a decent universal healthcare system soon. It won't happen anytime soon. The general American viewpoint on medical insurance seems to be very much against government involvement. Personally I don't see how private insurance is so much better. With private insurance you have an organization whose bottom line is making a profit. Yet it seems that many Americans would rather have their health insurance options dictated by the almighty buck than by what would be helpful for them. Right now there is so much waste in the American health care system. I too wish Americans would have a universal health care system, but I'm afraid it may take a long time for the majority to see it as a better option than the broken system in place now. I'm not saying universal health care is perfect, but if done right, it would be far better than what's in place now.

thishereboi -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/4/2011 3:10:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl What do you expect with a diagnosis of dementia? Confusion, duh. Did I say she should not have been? Of COURSE she didnt trust Drs, she didnt trust anyone she didnt remember. So it wasn't the lack of health care that was the problem, which is what I said. The health care system failed both the patient and her niece with the lack of support and education that both needed, as evidenced by the outcome. There comes a point when someone is so sick that you ignore their wishes and call for help. Now I don't know the niece so I can't say exactly why she didn't, but that was not the point of my response. People are trying to claim she couldn't get care because of our health care system and it didn't have anything to do with that. I disagree...it did have something to do with our health care system. The help was there through government agencies, but how to access those agencies is damn difficult to find. If they were for profit agencies they would manage to get the word out there. The hospital was close by and they knew where it was and how to get care there... "Frances died in 2003. Ramona went three years later. Concha Lopez had watched her sisters die in medical facilities and made her family promise to spare her such an end." She didn't want that. How is that the hospitals fault? What part of "There comes a point when someone is so sick that you ignore their wishes and call for help." is confusing you. Why would it confuse me? I am the one who wrote it. What part of that indicates to you that the problem was not having health care available? The niece should have asked someone for help. She didn't but unless I know exactly why, I am not about to start judging her for her actions.

thishereboi -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/4/2011 3:13:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: The hospital was close by and they knew where it was and how to get care there... "Frances died in 2003. Ramona went three years later. Concha Lopez had watched her sisters die in medical facilities and made her family promise to spare her such an end." She didn't want that. How is that the hospitals fault? Who said it was the hospital's fault? He implied that they could not find a hospital or help for the lady. "I disagree...it did have something to do with our health care system. The help was there through government agencies, but how to access those agencies is damn difficult to find. If they were for profit agencies they would manage to get the word out there." Others have implied that the care was not available. According to the article they never sought help because the old lady didn't want it. Not sure why this is so fucking difficult for people to get.

tazzygirl -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/4/2011 6:44:33 PM)
quote: Others have implied that the care was not available. According to the article they never sought help because the old lady didn't want it. Not sure why this is so fucking difficult for people to get . May be because you are fucking wrong. Read the article again, most specifically the bottom of the first page to the top of the second. And I will tell you something else, miss smarty bitch. The woman was diagnosed with dementia. The nurses gave up way too easy, the niece didnt know what she was in for, and no one followed up with this family from social sevices. Now, explain to ME how that is not "health care system" failing this family. When you watch the only support you were supposed to need (the home health burses) walk away, who do you turn too? And its bullshit that the old lady didnt want help. Guess what? Doesnt matter what she wanted. I cant tell you how many patients I have had to put in four point restraint just to give them a bed bath. It breaks your heart, but you do it. Doesnt sound like anyone told the niece much of anything at all. The girl obviously cared for the woman.

tweakabelle -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/4/2011 6:53:13 PM)
Excellent post tazzy. The idea that someone with (advanced?) dementia can take appropriate rational decisions in their own best interests is self-evidently false. Dementia by definition (de = without; mente = mind) means a person is unable to take rational decisions. As in demented for instance. The truth of what you have just said is still ringing in my ears.

tazzygirl -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/4/2011 7:00:09 PM)
Its two fold, tweak. Yes, she cannot make her own decisions anymore, legally or medically. But did the niece know and understand that? Patient teaching isnt just for the patient.

tweakabelle -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/4/2011 7:01:37 PM)
Yes. I find the absence of compassion in some of the views being expressed here callous. It doesn't take Einstein-level intelligence to put yourself in the niece's place, or to understand the decisions of a poor old woman seriously ill and mentally incapacitated. All it takes is a bit of heart.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/4/2011 7:04:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Yes. I find the absence of compassion in some of the views being expressed here callous. And I find the notion that all of the world's ills can be solved with OPM pathetically naive.

tazzygirl -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/4/2011 7:05:15 PM)
Compassion doesnt cost a dime.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/4/2011 7:08:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Compassion doesnt cost a dime. And isnt worth 2 cents when its not acted on. I have plenty of compassion, but recognize I can only do so much, so I focus my compassion AND my givng on those I choose to, not who some random marsupial tells me I should.

tweakabelle -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/4/2011 7:10:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Yes. I find the absence of compassion in some of the views being expressed here callous. And I find the notion that all of the world's ills can be solved with OPM pathetically naive. No one is saying that Willbur. It's certain that some of the world's ills can be alleviated with compassion. However, to understand that you need to possess a heart. So how could you possibly know that? It would be unfair to expect you to. Go back to playing with your war toys you silly little boy.

tazzygirl -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/4/2011 7:12:22 PM)
But, there are people who are paid, specifically, to help people like this. Its far easier to do nothing, just go with the flow, then to try and care for a 91 year old woman who isnt in her right mind. Again, compassion doesnt cost a dime, and when people are being paid to do their jobs, and they dont, then we should all be pissed instead of claiming someone wants money tossed at the problem.

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