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Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022 - 5/30/2011 5:07:08 AM   
Phoenixpower


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Status: offline 		http://www.u.tv/News/Germany-nuclear-shutdown-by-2022-may-mean-blackouts-Merkel-warned/3f3d672c-3d2a-4d57-a59c-37f20eea9438

http://article.wn.com/view/2011/05/30/Germany_pledges_to_end_all_nuclear_power_by_2022/?section=More+News&template=worldnews%2Findex.txt

Only thought to spread the news

After I already loved it when the county where I am from originally (Baden-Wuerttemberg) enabled the first Green Prime Minister to get a seat in our history.

http://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/ceweekly/2011-05-18/germany-first-green-prime-minister-a-german-local-government

According to friends and family back home the common phrase there during that time has been "Japan decided the outcome of the elections."



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RE: Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022 - 5/30/2011 5:23:55 AM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		Phoenix' first link works fine, but the second link, the World News one, is a pain in the ass.

An 11 year transition sounds reasonable, since nuclear only supplies 22% of Germany's power now.  It likely will not be painless, but it should be workable as long as the permitting process for transitioning old plants and possibly bringing new ones online is reasonable.


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RE: Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022 - 5/30/2011 5:50:47 AM   
Phoenixpower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Phoenix' first link works fine, but the second link, the World News one, is a pain in the ass.

An 11 year transition sounds reasonable, since nuclear only supplies 22% of Germany's power now.  It likely will not be painless, but it should be workable as long as the permitting process for transitioning old plants and possibly bringing new ones online is reasonable.



Thanks for the feedback regarding the 2nd link, I only offered the 2nd link as a source to more articles in case someone wants to read more about it, so the first article was the one I aimed as main article.

Anyhow, I am really curious now in regards to that development at home in the upcoming years but am just glad to see that such awful events, like the one in japan, can lead to people standing up against it and challenging the politics at home.

My mum told me that Merkel kept delaying decisions about nuclear power before the election, because of which the people then showed her with their votes "you keep delaying a decision, well, we just show you that we won't elect you in the first place then."



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RE: Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022 - 5/30/2011 6:43:08 AM   
calamitysandra


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Status: offline 		My Oldest is ecstatic. This is the first time he realised just how much power the people can wield. He was on a lot of anti nuclear power demonstrations in the last months, and feels like he won a personal victory. A lesson learned.  

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RE: Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022 - 5/30/2011 7:09:58 AM   
Phoenixpower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

My Oldest is ecstatic. This is the first time he realised just how much power the people can wield. He was on a lot of anti nuclear power demonstrations in the last months, and feels like he won a personal victory. A lesson learned.  


Thats cool

I am glad that he experienced already in such a way that people can achieve change.

I mentioned it today in the thread as it came here (in the UK) in the news just before I mentioned it...and having read online the victory from the Green Party in Baden-Wuerttemberg followed by other counties where the Green Party also grew stronger it is currently an interesting development

< Message edited by Phoenixpower -- 5/30/2011 7:11:10 AM >

_____________________________

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The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

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RE: Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022 - 5/30/2011 8:34:44 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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Status: offline 		Did Germany sign the Kyoto protocols? Because they aren't going to both meet Kyoto targets and eliminate nuclear power in 11 years.

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RE: Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022 - 5/30/2011 10:09:53 AM   
Edwynn


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You are apparently unaware that Germany operates differently than the US. They have a politically mature and economically well versed Green Party with significant input into affairs now, and even before and aside from that, they have a central bank and regulatory system that is sufficiently adept at fundamental economics to avoid massive 'financial innovation' toxic spills and know how to say something besides "too big to fail." 

Unlike as has taken place in the US, Germany will not have Chevron and Haliburton and Westinghouse et al. sitting at the table and 'advising' them on energy policy.


A good bit of alt. energy technology and energy saving methods and lighter materials exist to fill some of the void as we speak, with at-or-close-to competitive cost structure. All that this process has been waiting for is some external statutory or economic or natural event to change the status quo unfair advantage that oil and nuclear continue to enjoy in the way of significant government support.

This latest move by Germany is one significant step in leveling the playing field among the different energy regimes.

Henceforth, both research into improved performance and scaling up production to improve unit cost will be more adequately funded, which will increase feasibility further. Both building and home energy management products should see improved growth ahead also, for those looking where to invest.

Anyone who thinks Germany is going to do this by way of a one-to-one trade from nuclear to coal power plants for the next 11 years is lacking in awareness of the situation, to put it mildly.







< Message edited by Edwynn -- 5/30/2011 10:17:29 AM >

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RE: Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022 - 5/30/2011 10:54:03 AM   
Rule


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Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		I wanna see it happen before I believe it.

Iffen politicians ever promised the truth, we would all own a herd of bulls with horns of gold.

The promises of politicians are like the pages in a book: quickly turned.

Nevertheless: I hope for the best.

The Japan disasters are reason for serious concern.

And how can nuclear engineers be as stupid as to keep worn fuel elements in the same building as the reactor vessel itself?

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RE: Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022 - 5/30/2011 10:56:26 AM   
Edwynn


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quote:

Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022




My, how quickly the markets respond!

http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=aj01lIr16dkE

About 2/3 of the way down in the news article:

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

REC, Vestas

Alternative-energy companies rose as German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s coalition resolved their differences over the timing of an exit from nuclear power following Japan’s Fukushima disaster, the worst nuclear crisis since 1986.

Renewable Energy Corp., a maker of solar-energy wafers, cells and modules, gained 3.7 percent to 12.99 kroner. Vestas, the largest wind-turbine manufacturer, climbed 2.7 percent to 151 kroner. Gamesa Corp. Tecnologica SA, Europe’s second-biggest wind-turbine maker, surged 5.2 percent to 6.52 euros and Enel Green Power SpA, a unit of Italy’s largest energy company, rallied 4.8 percent to 1.92 euros.

  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 5/30/2011 10:57:33 AM >

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RE: Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022 - 5/30/2011 12:55:24 PM   
provfivetine


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Status: offline 		I don't know why Germany would be so foolish to try to do this. Nuclear power is an excellent way to sustain a population in an environmentally friendly way. France understands this.

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RE: Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022 - 5/30/2011 1:58:28 PM   
calamitysandra


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Status: offline 		Yes, we are signatories to the Kyoto protocol. As the plan is to replace the nuclear power mostly with green energy, we are quite hopeful to be able to do both.

Considering we do have no way to truly and safely dispose of the depleted fuel rods, and looking at the horrifying and lasting consequences  if an accident occurs, I would not call nuclear power environment friendly.


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RE: Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022 - 5/30/2011 3:50:31 PM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

I don't know why Germany would be so foolish to try to do this. Nuclear power is an excellent way to sustain a population in an environmentally friendly way. France understands this.



Just imagine folks,

living in the future and having to deal with nuclear waste from a bunch of selfish lazy assed retards who dumped it on us generations before,knowing they could exploit it and then leave the waste for others to clean up,...........us.

What a fucking lot of jerk-off douche-bag cock-suckers do that to us.

Why the fuck couldn`t they get there shit together and live within their means and not slough off this expense and poison on their grandchildren and their great great great grand children?

Because they were lazy jerk-off douche-bag cock-suckers.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 5/30/2011 3:51:35 PM >

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RE: Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022 - 5/30/2011 4:04:48 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Renewable energy sources can be unreliable in winter, at a time when more power is needed. Germany is already using more coal since the nuclear plants have been closed for safety. Green energy is also more expensive, are the eloctorate willing to pay the incresed costs ?

It is also feasible that in winter Germany may need to import power sources. Would it not be hypocritical to import nuclear power from France ?  The same questions also apply here in the UK, one problem they are finding with wind farms is that power cant always be produced when needed.

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RE: Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022 - 5/30/2011 4:34:59 PM   
Phoenixpower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
one problem they are finding with wind farms is that power cant always be produced when needed.


Yeah, I know that issue, as my parents use solar panels on their roof to have more warm water available...well...there are some days where it doesn't quite work that reliable so to speak

Anyhow, I am looking forward to see how that is being tried to tackle

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The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

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RE: Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022 - 5/30/2011 4:40:48 PM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
one problem they are finding with wind farms is that power cant always be produced when needed.


Yeah, I know that issue, as my parents use solar panels on their roof to have more warm water available...well...there are some days where it doesn't quite work that reliable so to speak

Anyhow, I am looking forward to see how that is being tried to tackle


Fair play to Germany for having a crack at it. Other than cost, the main problem, as I see it, is not having enough capacity to store electricity for a rainy day. ( No pun intended )

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RE: Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022 - 5/30/2011 4:52:54 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

Yes, we are signatories to the Kyoto protocol. As the plan is to replace the nuclear power mostly with green energy, we are quite hopeful to be able to do both.

Considering we do have no way to truly and safely dispose of the depleted fuel rods, and looking at the horrifying and lasting consequences  if an accident occurs, I would not call nuclear power environment friendly.



thanks for the answer. Unfortunately your answer means there isnt a chance in hell that you'll be nuclear free AND "green" in 11 years.

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RE: Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022 - 5/30/2011 6:21:31 PM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
one problem they are finding with wind farms is that power cant always be produced when needed.


Yeah, I know that issue, as my parents use solar panels on their roof to have more warm water available...well...there are some days where it doesn't quite work that reliable so to speak

Anyhow, I am looking forward to see how that is being tried to tackle


Fair play to Germany for having a crack at it. Other than cost, the main problem, as I see it, is not having enough capacity to store electricity for a rainy day. ( No pun intended )


Well, I simply like the fact that they seem to try it instead of just saying "its impossible."

And well...all our houses get warm via wood from our forest alternatively...so we don't need the heating....or is that then considered as not being green

But in regards to the water example...jeeeesh it wasn't comfortable when you sit in the tub and realise that the freaking sun wasn't around enough

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

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RE: Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022 - 5/30/2011 6:28:06 PM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		They`ve been fitting solar panals to south west facing roofs for years and were able to save the expense of building another nuke plant while also meeting their increaced needs.

It`s more than bold.It`s the responsible thing to do.


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RE: Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022 - 5/30/2011 8:01:05 PM   
provfivetine


Posts: 410
Joined: 2/17/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

I don't know why Germany would be so foolish to try to do this. Nuclear power is an excellent way to sustain a population in an environmentally friendly way. France understands this.


Just imagine folks,

living in the future and having to deal with nuclear waste from a bunch of selfish lazy assed retards who dumped it on us generations before,knowing they could exploit it and then leave the waste for others to clean up,...........us.

What a fucking lot of jerk-off douche-bag cock-suckers do that to us.

Why the fuck couldn`t they get there shit together and live within their means and not slough off this expense and poison on their grandchildren and their great great great grand children?

Because they were lazy jerk-off douche-bag cock-suckers.



Ahh, what a fantastic post that just screams of intellectualism. This could only be spoken by someone that doesn't have a clue regarding the basic concepts of nuclear power. You know that the U-235 that is used as fissile material can be reused after it turns into D-38 right? Judging by your intellectual capacity that you've demonstrated, I don't have much faith...

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RE: Germany pledges to end all nuclear power by 2022 - 5/30/2011 8:07:50 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Riiiiiiight.......

The spent waste cramming every nuke plant`s storage capacity that can`t find a home that no one wants, is proof that you`re full of shit.






< Message edited by Owner59 -- 5/30/2011 8:08:33 PM >

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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