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Union busting illegal! - 5/26/2011 9:53:53 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/UPDATE_Judge_Voids_Wisconsin_Collective_Bargaining_Law.html

In short the Wisconsin GOP violated state law when they tried to pass the law stripping union workers of their rights to bargain collectively. This will of course be appealed to the federal SCOTUS, unless walker et al is recalled first, but for today state workers retain the rights.
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RE: Union busting illegal! - 5/26/2011 9:57:09 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		The news made me smile BIG TIME at least until SCOTUS makes a decision, isnt that the first week in June?


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RE: Union busting illegal! - 5/26/2011 10:00:15 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		Well, I thought it was a clear violation, and I am some confused, why wouldn't it be a matter now of SCOTSOWI?  How is this states rights issue of state constitutional violation go federal before state?

Nevertheless.  It would be funny if they tried it again, head bang head bang.

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RE: Union busting illegal! - 5/26/2011 10:00:34 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

The news made me smile BIG TIME at least until SCOTUS makes a decision, isnt that the first week in June?


June 6th the state Supreme Court hears arguments and will decide whether or not to take the case. If they take the case there would be a period for submitting written arguments and a hearing for oral arguments. Not sure how fast they would move but it would seem unlikely they could rule before the fall.

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RE: Union busting illegal! - 5/26/2011 10:02:03 AM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah, ok...that's coming into focus, now.

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RE: Union busting illegal! - 5/26/2011 10:05:30 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, ok...that's coming into focus, now.

It's pretty much a foregone conclusion that the Wisconsin Supreme Court will reverse the lower court and the plaintiffs will appeal to the federal appelate level etc.

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RE: Union busting illegal! - 5/26/2011 10:29:12 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah, I hear that but open meeting is pretty fuckin cut and dried and alot of caselaw reinforcing it, I don't care if its Jeb Bush and Scott Walker sitting on that bench, the nebulous miasmatic wending and slithering of legal principle and language interpretation that could make that piece of shit stick .........

And further, given the explication of the law by the current WI Attorney General....

http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dls/OMPR/2010OMCG-PRO/2010_OML_Compliance_Guide.pdf

Who is going to prosecute the case on behalf of the state?

I mean especially given that these fucking idiots down there have the defense that senate rule 93 only states that a 2 hour notice of special session has to be put on the bulletin board, which implies that senate rules are supreme to state law?

Jesus, there is only one person I can think of in the world from wisconsin who would argue that correctness of law, and he aint got a license.   

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RE: Union busting illegal! - 5/26/2011 10:55:59 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		I recall many of us questioning whether people in Wisconsin could practice the right to peaceful assembly, or whether they could only do that, if it was in support of Gov. Walker. The amusing part is the conservatives of that state. They rant, rave, and foam-at-the-mouth hysteria about the goverment becoming a dictatorship, actually looked that way for a time....and conservatives voted to make it happen! During a Congressional hearing a month or two later, Gov. Walker basically stated this manuever didn't have anything to do with the budget and EVERYTHING to do with undermining democracy. And STILL, conservatives support him. Simply amazing....

But, seems the court prevailed (for now) on this issue. The Republicans will take it to the federal system, arguing they have a right to strip 'freedom of assembly', 'freedom of speech' and 'freedom to address the goverment over greivances' from Americans. Hopefully the US Supreme Court isn't full of total idiots.

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RE: Union busting illegal! - 5/26/2011 8:15:20 PM   
luckydawg


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Joined: 9/2/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, I hear that but open meeting is pretty fuckin cut and dried and alot of caselaw reinforcing it, I don't care if its Jeb Bush and Scott Walker sitting on that bench, the nebulous miasmatic wending and slithering of legal principle and language interpretation that could make that piece of shit stick .........

And further, given the explication of the law by the current WI Attorney General....

http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dls/OMPR/2010OMCG-PRO/2010_OML_Compliance_Guide.pdf

Who is going to prosecute the case on behalf of the state?

I mean especially given that these fucking idiots down there have the defense that senate rule 93 only states that a 2 hour notice of special session has to be put on the bulletin board, which implies that senate rules are supreme to state law?

Jesus, there is only one person I can think of in the world from wisconsin who would argue that correctness of law, and he aint got a license.   


Actually on page 4 of your link it states,

"The open meetings law also does not apply
where it conflicts with a rule of the Legislature, senate, or assembly. Wis. Stat. § 19.87(2)."

Wisconson law specifically says Senate rules take precedence.

The reality is that the Dems are attempting to sabotage the Democratic Process, in a cowardly way. THey are pussies and should all be thrown out of Office for attempting to subvert the Rule of Law and the Republic. It is vile and disgusting. They ran away from thier jobs.

You supporters of such Un American Cowards, for I will call them (and thier supporters what they are), should be ashamed for attempting to derail the Government of Wisconson. No wonder you so despeatly want no ID voting.

The law (which was fine when your side wrote it) and the Public are against you.

THe losers can't even get ha;f of the signatures they need for the recall effort. The public doesn't support it.

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RE: Union busting illegal! - 5/26/2011 8:17:44 PM   
cuckoldmepls


Posts: 855
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline 		You realize of course that if public unions are allowed to blackmail the taxpayers, then the only other choice will be to lay them off right???

So what you will see is exactly what happened to the automotive industry. 75% laid off, and 25% stealing the corporation blind with benefits and pension plans.

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RE: Union busting illegal! - 5/26/2011 8:19:54 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		Huh?

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RE: Union busting illegal! - 5/26/2011 8:25:23 PM   
cuckoldmepls


Posts: 855
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline 		Let me explain. City and states only have so much money in the budget. If they can't afford the benefits that public unions demand, then the only choice will be to lay some of them off so they can afford the benefits for the others.

Another likely possibility is to contract out the work to private contractors who will do it for far less and no benefits. Public unions are going to shoot themselves in the foot just like private sector unions do.

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RE: Union busting illegal! - 5/26/2011 8:30:55 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		It wasn't your post that I was trying to figure out. I didn't completely agree with what you said, but you said it clearly. It was Lucky that I couldn't make any sense out of.


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RE: Union busting illegal! - 5/26/2011 10:24:16 PM   
luckydawg


Posts: 2448
Joined: 9/2/2009
Status: offline 		Yeah, Panda has pretty poor comprehension skills.



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RE: Union busting illegal! - 5/26/2011 11:13:36 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

THe losers can't even get ha;f of the signatures they need for the recall effort. The public doesn't support it.


They cant, by law, recall Walker intil Jan. As far as not having the support...

A new survey of Wisconsin from Public Policy Polling (D) finds some good news for Democrats in their efforts to take control of the state Senate in the upcoming recall elections, in a backlash against Gov. Scott Walker's (R) anti-public employee union legislation: The state's voters want to recall Walker -- and they would rather have the Democrats in control of the state Senate, too.

The poll finds Walker with an approval rating of only 43%, with 54% disapproval. The poll also asked: "Would you support or oppose recalling Scott Walker from office before his term is up?" The result was support 50%, oppose 47%.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_WI_0525930.pdf

The rest of the recalls...

The Wisconsin board that oversees elections has rejected most challenges to recall efforts targeting three Republican state senators.

The Government Accountability Board's action today clears the way for recall elections on all three on July 12.

The recalls target Sens. Dan Kapanke of La Crosse, Randy Hopper of Fond du Lac and Luther Olsen of Ripon.

They are among nine lawmakers, six Republicans and three Democrats, targeted for recalls for their positions on GOP Gov. Scott Walker's proposal taking away collective bargaining rights from most state workers.

The board plans to evaluate the challenges to those six recall petitions at its May 31 meeting, and likely would certify all the petitions that same week.



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chibrknews-wis-board-clears-way-for-3-gop-recall-elections-20110523,0,186206.story

The signatures are there.

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RE: Union busting illegal! - 5/27/2011 1:26:57 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Hopefully the US Supreme Court isn't full of total idiots.


Can you say Scalia?


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RE: Union busting illegal! - 5/27/2011 1:31:22 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Yeah, Panda has pretty poor comprehension skills.




As we all seem to when you post.

I guess you are just a level above us.

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RE: Union busting illegal! - 5/27/2011 1:36:41 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Let me explain. City and states only have so much money in the budget. If they can't afford the benefits that public unions demand, then the only choice will be to lay some of them off so they can afford the benefits for the others.

Another likely possibility is to contract out the work to private contractors who will do it for far less and no benefits. Public unions are going to shoot themselves in the foot just like private sector unions do.



Have you noticed that the wealthiest 10% in this country have been steadily getting wealthier while those greedy union employees have seen their wages stagnate?

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RE: Union busting illegal! - 5/27/2011 3:03:51 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, I hear that but open meeting is pretty fuckin cut and dried and alot of caselaw reinforcing it, I don't care if its Jeb Bush and Scott Walker sitting on that bench, the nebulous miasmatic wending and slithering of legal principle and language interpretation that could make that piece of shit stick .........

And further, given the explication of the law by the current WI Attorney General....

http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dls/OMPR/2010OMCG-PRO/2010_OML_Compliance_Guide.pdf

Who is going to prosecute the case on behalf of the state?

I mean especially given that these fucking idiots down there have the defense that senate rule 93 only states that a 2 hour notice of special session has to be put on the bulletin board, which implies that senate rules are supreme to state law?

Jesus, there is only one person I can think of in the world from wisconsin who would argue that correctness of law, and he aint got a license.   


Actually on page 4 of your link it states,

"The open meetings law also does not apply
where it conflicts with a rule of the Legislature, senate, or assembly. Wis. Stat. § 19.87(2)."

Wisconson law specifically says Senate rules take precedence.

Read the ruling, the judge notes that since this was a conference committee, IOW both Senate and House members present, the Senates rules do not apply.

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RE: Union busting illegal! - 5/27/2011 5:41:24 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Yeah, Panda has pretty poor comprehension skills.




Well, if you'd put down the fucking bong for just 5 minutes, and go back to 1st grade and learn to spell and write as well as your average 6-year  old, maybe we'd at least be able to read the incomprehensible gibberish that you constantly vomit forth onto the boards.

Of course, it still wouldn't make any fucking sense, because it's still you saying it, but at least we'd be able to read it. Why the fuck we'd want to waste our time, god only  knows, but at least we could if we wanted to.


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