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RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients ab... - 5/15/2011 7:34:42 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ
And why RealOne can not grasp the concept of preventative health as a medical standard, and how this might apply to firearm safety, is a bit beyond my grasp.

Because pediatricians are part of the conspiracy, obviously.



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RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients ab... - 5/15/2011 8:06:11 AM   
EternalHoH


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Status: offline 		Last year, here in Tennessee, it was the 'guns in bars' issue for the legislature. This year, its the 'guns on college campuses' issue. In Florida, apparently its the beginnings of a movement into legislating gun issues in the doctors office.  Every one of these "manufactured" issues involve guns or gun issues on someone else's private property.  This appears to be the NRA's new 'angle'.

This pediatrician didn't go to the patient's house, she came to his office - the infamous conversation went down on HIS property. Today, courtesy of a legislature defending guns from a non-threat, this pediatrician in Florida has lost some of his control over his own private property, his office space.

Its one thing for the NRA to stand up for the second amendment. Its something entirely different for the NRA to work to destroy private property rights just so gun toters can have unrestricted gun privileges (among them, not having to 'feel bad') everywhere they go, even if 'where the go' involves other people's private property.

Does that, likewise, make you happy, termy?

Thus endeth the lesson that not everything the NRA does is in the best interest of individual rights. Sometimes, they work to destroy them, too.




< Message edited by EternalHoH -- 5/15/2011 8:07:59 AM >

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RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients ab... - 5/15/2011 8:32:42 AM   
BamaD


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Status: offline 		When the AMA has come out in favor of firearms confiscation it is easy to assume that these questions are not asked purely for the good of the kids.  

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RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients ab... - 5/15/2011 8:39:57 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:


Confidentiality is an illusion. And if you don't think so, don't bother asking the hospital for your medical records, ask your insurance company.


and if they give them to you, report their asses and they will be fined for it. Unless of course you have already given permission for the doc to send the insurance company this info.


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RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients ab... - 5/15/2011 8:44:42 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

Since when is a patent's health restricted only to performing medical exams and dispensing pills? Who hasn't been prodded by a doctor to lose weight to avoid diabetes? Or to stop smoking to avoid emphysema? Or lay off the fatty foods to avoid heart attacks?


Being overweight has been proven to cause diabetes, smoking has been proved to cause emphysema and fatty foods lead to heart attack. Just being in the house with a gun doesn't cause anything, unless of course you are allergic to lead and suck on the bullets.

See the difference?



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RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients ab... - 5/15/2011 8:45:15 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

fr

you have the right to privacy 


The right to privacy concerns individuals' rights to privacy from the GOVERNMENT and in no ways addresses a doctor-patient relationship 
quote:



if you choose to commingle your personal affairs in the public then the public has the right to judge it.

  Agreed but I'm not sure how that fits with the issue at hand. 
quote:



what a person "FEELS" has nothing to do with rights

the question was outside medical parameters required service the patient.



That's a gray area.  Whether lifestyle is a medical issue.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

When the AMA has come out in favor of firearms confiscation it is easy to assume that these questions are not asked purely for the good of the kids.  


Are you referring to the pediatric doctors' association statement?  If so, then they are recommending that a question be asked, not confiscation.  Please provide a link for the AMA making such an inflammatory statement.


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RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients ab... - 5/15/2011 8:54:57 AM   
EternalHoH


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Status: offline 		The AMA could come out in favor of a blue moon on Venus, but that doesn't make it so.   But thanks for making the impossible leap along with the Florida legislature.



quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

it is easy to assume



The problem here is in the assumption. And who is doing the assuming. And what their IQ is.





< Message edited by EternalHoH -- 5/15/2011 9:17:12 AM >

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RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients ab... - 5/15/2011 9:01:49 AM   
EternalHoH


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Being overweight has been proven to cause diabetes, smoking has been proved to cause emphysema and fatty foods lead to heart attack. Just being in the house with a gun doesn't cause anything, unless of course you are allergic to lead and suck on the bullets.

See the difference?






Being overweight has been proven to cause diabetes, smoking has been proved to cause emphysema and fatty foods lead to heart attack. Just being in the house with a gun doesn't cause anything, unless of course, a 5 year old finds one, and points it at a 3 year old. That has been proven to cause death, too.

See the LACK OF a difference?


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RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients ab... - 5/15/2011 9:03:59 AM   
Lucylastic


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RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients ab... - 5/15/2011 9:21:16 AM   
angelikaJ


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Status: offline 		The American Association of Pediatrics recommendation that there not be firearms in homes with young children is not the same as a recommendation for confiscation.

It is an acknowledgement that too often parents and other adults are too careless with their guns.

Again, it is the doctors who have the difficult job of trying to repair the damage that a bullet makes when it comes in contact with the body of a child.
It doesn't take much blood loss in a child to compromise the ability of doctors to be able to just fix things the way they might be able to in an adult.

When I was a little kid we didn't have car seats for small children either and the 'seatbelt' was often the arm of the parent trying to reach across.
That doesn't mean we don't know better now and child safety seat laws exist for very good reasons.

Perhaps it does need a physicist (or at least the laws of physics) to explain that something traveling at more than 500 miles an hour is going to do a lot of damage.


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RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients ab... - 5/15/2011 9:24:15 AM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		Although I believe it does not violate the constitution for the doctor to ask, I also don't believe that he has a right to know.   To me, this is the first step in saying that all gun owners are unfit parents.   If that is the case, then all Military, Police, and hunters for a start are.   Oh and the difference between a gun and a knife (including butter) is the distance at which it becomes dangerous and the depth at which it penetrates (I have a 36" blade so I guess thru and thru is possible there too only it comes out smaller).

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RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients ab... - 5/15/2011 9:27:07 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		yeah but not many butter knives enter the body at the velocity of a gun
\we have already made the case that its not that guns are harmless, its the chucklehead operating it thats the problem.
children usually get a chance to recvover from finding out that other weapons have a consequence


< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 5/15/2011 9:30:14 AM >

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RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients ab... - 5/15/2011 9:29:51 AM   
Tantriqu


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Status: offline 		Good for the pediatrician for sticking to HIS guns. It's arrogant to think it's NOT a doctor's business to know about the risks to their patients. Imagine if you have an alcoholic or drug-dependent adult or a depressed male teenager in a house with access to guns and ammo: countdown to death, singular or plural.
NOT asking about guns in the house is a risk to your teen and who knows how many others.
Freedom from fear comes before the right to bear arms, even in the US.

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RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients ab... - 5/15/2011 9:31:29 AM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		velocity is a factor but that isn't the point.   Why isn't the doctor asking about other objects in the home?   If the justification for the question is safety, they why not go thru everything?   He would need to know about knives, forks, skillets, oils, chemicals, when the last time the wall outlets were changed in accordance with code, etc   That is because it isn't his business.   Same with guns.

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RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients ab... - 5/15/2011 9:31:36 AM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

Since when is a patent's health restricted only to performing medical exams and dispensing pills? Who hasn't been prodded by a doctor to lose weight to avoid diabetes? Or to stop smoking to avoid emphysema? Or lay off the fatty foods to avoid heart attacks?


Being overweight has been proven to cause diabetes, smoking has been proved to cause emphysema and fatty foods lead to heart attack. Just being in the house with a gun doesn't cause anything, unless of course you are allergic to lead and suck on the bullets.

See the difference?




Before you take a newborn home, the hospital makes sure you know how to install the child safety seat correctly.

I am sure Eric Clapton would give anything if someone in his life had warned them about the windows on the apartment his son Conor fell 53 stories from.

These are reasonable precautions and it was a reasonable question regarding preventative medicine and safety.

edit: missing word

< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 5/15/2011 9:39:15 AM >

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RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients ab... - 5/15/2011 9:33:01 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

velocity is a factor but that isn't the point.   Why isn't the doctor asking about other objects in the home?   If the justification for the question is safety, they why not go thru everything?   He would need to know about knives, forks, skillets, oils, chemicals, when the last time the wall outlets were changed in accordance with code, etc   That is because it isn't his business.   Same with guns.

Guns only have one purpose


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RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients ab... - 5/15/2011 9:35:52 AM   
KenDckey


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RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients ab... - 5/15/2011 9:38:11 AM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

velocity is a factor but that isn't the point.   Why isn't the doctor asking about other objects in the home?   If the justification for the question is safety, they why not go thru everything?   He would need to know about knives, forks, skillets, oils, chemicals, when the last time the wall outlets were changed in accordance with code, etc   That is because it isn't his business.   Same with guns.


He states he asks about swimming pools.

And yes, again, the 'positive' statistics the NRA posted not withstanding, not every parent who is a gun owner is a responsible gun owner and as a result, tragedies happen... that would be otherwise entirely preventable if only the parents taught basic gun safety AND locked their firearms.

You honestly can't understand why The American Pediatrics Association would be concerned about gun safety as a public health issue?

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RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients ab... - 5/15/2011 9:44:26 AM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		They can be concerned  if they want, why aren't the asking about how mom and dad store their caustics (and other hazardous materials) and hazardous impliments?  The list of hazards is way to long to ask about.   So they pick on one issue that has been determined to be allowed according to the constitution.  Isn't that profiling?   The safety in the home concern is not one class of items, but the whole picture or it is invalidated.

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RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients ab... - 5/15/2011 9:45:50 AM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

Good for the pediatrician for sticking to HIS guns. It's arrogant to think it's NOT a doctor's business to know about the risks to their patients. Imagine if you have an alcoholic or drug-dependent adult or a depressed male teenager in a house with access to guns and ammo: countdown to death, singular or plural.
NOT asking about guns in the house is a risk to your teen and who knows how many others.
Freedom from fear comes before the right to bear arms, even in the US.



I don't see it as any more intrusive than my doctor asking me about my drinking habits tobacco or drug usage.

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