Roof Advice (Full Version)

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littlewonder -> Roof Advice (4/30/2011 2:24:08 PM)

ok so I know this is an odd place to ask this but I just got a claim accepted for a new roof for my home which will help me to get this house off my hands. No I've not had any leaks, no problems but in the process of selling home and wanted to find out what condition the roof is in before being hit with a surprise during inspections.

So I've gotten estimate from numerous places an each one wildly different; anywhere from $2700 to $5000. The majority of them are telling me that I don't need to have the old shingles removed, just the new ones placed on top of them. The old shingles are 3 tab. The new ones are to be 30 year warranty dimensional/architectural shingles.

Now my realtor is arguing that that is untrue and I won't pass FHA inspection nor will the people who are putting in an offer abide by that because a second layer will cut off 8 years from the life of the roof and you can't tell if there's any damage to the plywood underneath without tearing off the existing shingles.

The contractors say they can tell if there is plywood damage by walking over it and seeing if there are any soft spots. All of them have said there aren't any soft spots and there's no curling so it's fine to put another layer on. I only have one layer to begin with. They've told me that here in PA you are allowed up to 3 layers.

So who is right? The contractors? My realtor?

The contractors have also said they can give me a roof certification saying the plywood is fine.

PS: Background info...my realtor has been bugging me to call her roofing guy and get an estimate from him because she works with him in other homes and her own...eerr..possibly why she is saying what she's saying?

Advice pleeeassseee.....the one bad thing about weekends...I can't reach anyone that i know who knows this kinda shit for me to bend their ear about this.




JstAnotherSub -> RE: Roof Advice (4/30/2011 2:42:29 PM)

Everyone in my family has always said 2 layers is fine, then it needs stripping. No one has ever had any problems.

Last time I had my house roofed, I got estimates like you did-all over the place. I picked a middle one, after talking to many who had used that company.

When we first bought our house, it had 3 layers of shingles, and it passed VA inspection.

How is this for a bunch of no answering? lol

Good luck.

eta having worked for a realtor for a few years, I can tell you they do all they can to get business for their fav contractors. Nothing wrong with that, unless it is something that is not necessary.

A quick google seemed to get agreement with the 2 layers is ok thing my family has always followed too.



Termyn8or -> RE: Roof Advice (4/30/2011 2:46:26 PM)

I don't think FHA has a problem with two rooves, but a buyer might. A buyer seeing a new roof on top of another might think you're trying to hide something.

And there is a big difference in the price of going over a roof versus a tearoff.

Personally, if it isn't leaking I would do nothing. The buyer or their inspector can say something if they want. If you can get up under the roof and see the sheathing and it looks fine - meaning no water stains, I wouldn't worry about it. The problem is when you can't. But if you can't they can't. So if they tear it off and find they have to replace wood, that's $$$. The tearoff is $$$.

You said you got a claim approved ? An insurance claim ? Without a leak that's hard to believe.

The question is - what's wrong with it ? Not pretty ? A roof has one purpose, to keep the water out. If it is serving that purpose well there is no reason to do anything. I can't be sure about FHA, we don't buy FHA but I know a couple of people who have sold FHA. They are a pain in the ass, but usually about stupid shit. Around here they seem to be concerned with stair railings and such, yet have passed houses with leaking rooves, crumbling foundations or very undesirable plumbing and/or electrical. It may be different in your locale. But here, under normal conditions I would put it in the ad "No FHA". Of course that was then. Now it's a buyer's market so who knows ? I would get a second opinion. In fact the best second opinion would be from the FHA. You might be able to get a pre-sale inspection, and if it passes that is a selling point. The FHA might not do it, but someone will (a licensed inspector) and once you have that piece of paper in your hot little hand, if they say it needs a roof later, guess who pays for it ?

Not you or your insurance company.

T^T



littlewonder -> RE: Roof Advice (4/30/2011 2:48:06 PM)

thanks JstAnotherSub. This is what the contractors have told me as well. Most of the contractors don't even feel I need to replace the roof at all even though it is old. They feel it will pass FHA inspection but because I already have a claim in it will show up on records and so therefore I have to have the work done now which I have no problem with. It could use a new roof anyway and will help to sell the house. My problem is how it's done. If I have to tear off the old shingles then it's going to cost me anther $1500 which isn't covered by the insurance check. They're only covering for a re-covering of the old shingles. I would think that if my insurance company are ok with this then it's ok. But I have friends and realtor who say they would never buy a house if they knew it was covered over instead of replaced.

I hate feeling confused and not knowing.




Termyn8or -> RE: Roof Advice (4/30/2011 2:53:19 PM)

"They feel it will pass FHA inspection but because I already have a claim in it will show up on records and so therefore I have to have the work done now "

Did the realtor start this ?

T^T



areallivehuman -> RE: Roof Advice (4/30/2011 2:54:31 PM)

A re-roof (putting a layer of shingles over an existing layer) is the norm. If there is only one layer, no problem. Most building codes allow 3 layers, before you need a "tear-off", removal of all old shingles and plywood, much more expensive and invasive.

Sorry but I smell bullshit from your realtor. Maybe getting a kickback from her roofing guy by drumming up work for him? Maybe you should try another realtor. Or knock 3-5000 off your asking price and let the new owners do what they want. I would personally try to get all the life out of the current roof I could. If it's not leaking.........



littlewonder -> RE: Roof Advice (4/30/2011 3:08:12 PM)

the insurance claim was approved due to windstorm damage last summer when we had some awful hail storms. Apparently the claim adjuster found enough damage to justify a replacement.

I've already lowered the the price of the home and already have an offer on it. The people making the offer know nothing at all about the roof and haven't questioned it but because I had the claim in before they ever accepted the offer as of two days ago I'm now still stuck with replacing the roof because the claim is on the records according to my realtor.

So if I accept the offer from these people and they see the claim on record they'll want a new roof which means they'll want me to strip it and start over according to the realtor.




ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Roof Advice (4/30/2011 3:33:15 PM)

This, don't trust them they have their own agenda:

quote:

eta having worked for a realtor for a few years, I can tell you they do all they can to get business for their fav contractors. Nothing wrong with that, unless it is something that is not necessary.



littlewonder -> RE: Roof Advice (4/30/2011 3:41:53 PM)

I agree. I just feel as if I don't tear off the old roof then she won't do what it takes to make sure this deal goes through and if it doesn't go through then she won't do the work that needs to be done to try and sell it to someone else.



DeviantlyD -> RE: Roof Advice (4/30/2011 3:57:32 PM)

Isn't she working for you? Regardless of her preferences, she needs to do all she can to ensure the deal goes through. And if the deal doesn't go through, I'd get a new realtor.



areallivehuman -> RE: Roof Advice (4/30/2011 4:07:16 PM)

Do you have an attorney? It would probably be worthwhile to ask him about whether you're bound to replace the roof. But I assume that if the adjuster authorized only a reroof, that should be all you need do. You and the buyer will be entering a contract, I would think you could sell it as is, if agreed upon. Loan provider might have some say........ won't you need an attorney to close anyway? Hate to say it but it might be time to start paying one, and get your questions answered.



littlewonder -> RE: Roof Advice (4/30/2011 7:36:13 PM)

so I just finished talking with another contractor friend of mine who feels the re-cover instead of tearing off is just as good a roof and can't see why I would need to tear off the existing. According to him the roof guy can tell if there's damage to the plywood by going into the attic and looking for damage but when my friend did work on my house he said he didn't remember it being bad.

I have a feeling I'm going to be getting a new realtor although I think I might be stuck with her for awhile due to a contract. Sigh. I wish I had realized she was insane before I hired her.




juliaoceania -> RE: Roof Advice (4/30/2011 7:41:14 PM)

Here is what HUD-FHA says on the website

http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?src=/program_offices/housing/sfh/ref/sfhp1-24


C. Re-Roofing: FHA will accept a maximum of 3 layers of existing roofing. If more than 2 layers exist and repair is necessary, then all old roofing must be removed as part of the re-roofing. (4905.1 REV-



littlewonder -> RE: Roof Advice (4/30/2011 7:53:53 PM)

yes exactly juliaoceania. My realtor feels that no one would buy a house with more than one layer though. The contractors and my friend think she's nuts. So yeah I think I'm just going to go ahead and get the second layer and say screw it. If they no longer want to purchase then so be it. I'm tired of dealing with it.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Roof Advice (4/30/2011 8:00:43 PM)

16 year RE Broker here.

I have never had an inspector or buyer have a problem with a double roof. 3 or more layers, yes but not 2.

I DO have a prob with your agent recommending ONE roofer. What we are supposed to do is just had you 3 numbers and say "call one or more of these folks and see what they say. Your agent is NOT a home inspector and is overstepping her bounds and might be recieving an undisclosed referral from the roofer which is a violation in all states.

If the roofer you use offers a certification, take it and display it.



littlewonder -> RE: Roof Advice (4/30/2011 8:06:24 PM)

Thank you Hillwilliam. That's what I needed to hear. I have had about 4 estimates so far and tomorrow one from the one she gave to me. She just goes on and on about how good a job he does, what he did to her house, on other homes he has worked on that she closed on, how nice a guy he is, etc....which is all fine and well. But when she seems to be pushing against what contractors say I get suspicious. She just keeps saying "I've been doing this for years and I know a lot about roofs"....eerr...more than the contractors????




Hillwilliam -> RE: Roof Advice (4/30/2011 8:10:17 PM)

Wonder. Even on stuff that I DO know more than the contractors about (asbestos, Drinking water analysis, Lead Based Paint, Radon) I keep My mouth shut except to offer the numbers of several competent, vetted by Me, contractors, inspectors, attorneys, etc.

An agent that pushes one of the above will be in deep shit if something goes wrong because they will be named on the suit.



LafayetteLady -> RE: Roof Advice (4/30/2011 8:10:17 PM)

~FAST REPLY~

You need to tell your realtor to go fuck herself. Buyer's don't look at insurance claims, neither does title search.

Not sure why you waited after claim approval (or it was approved over winter?). In any case, whatever amount is approved, find contractor for that amount.

Buyers don't want to see layers? Tell your realtor since insurance approved re-roof, that is all you will do and if the buyer doesn't like it, they can do tear off at their expense.

Realtor says FHA won't approve re-roof? Tell her to provide you with the FHA guidelines or shut up. Tell her if she mentions her guy one more time, you will speak to her boss and it may be grounds for breach of contract.

Realtors are often the stupidest people alive. A friend who was interviewing realtors had one tell her she should replace her carpet with pergo laminate. When asked how much that would increase sale value, realtor said it wouldn't but it would look nice. Nearly 10K in work for no return? Realtor didn't get the job.

Don't cave to a pushy realtor.



Hillwilliam -> RE: Roof Advice (4/30/2011 8:12:35 PM)

Here, Here Lafayette.

Too damn many part time agents out there with nothing going for them but a brand new license and a glamour shot business card.

They make those of us who have been at it full time for a decade or more look bad by association.



littlewonder -> RE: Roof Advice (4/30/2011 8:17:50 PM)

thanks guys. I just got the claim approval on the 26th and got the check today. It took my insurance co. two weeks from when the adjustor came out to approve it and send me a check.

I appreciate your help in this matter. At this point the buyers can either take the re-cover or not accept the offer at all.....their choice. I'm sure another buyer eventually eventually be interested.



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